Dream TV has a video about the Quranist of Egypt and their recent problem
-
Excellent video about the recent events in Egypt and a debate between Quranist and Sunni Islam
http//www.copts-united.com/C_U/CoptsUnited_2007/TV_Video_Clips/DreamII/00-2007/06/Ftaway_Debate/Ftaway_Debate_12.htm
The rest of the video is here
http//www.ahl-alquran.com/arabic/show_news.php?main_id=373
These are the things that should be uploaded in the net like youtube and other public sites. This is a good sign because dream tv is a popular tv channel in Egypt and this gives the Quranist good exposure.
-
Goddammit, there is no translation.
Its the same thing you get in the argument. Rejecting Sunnah is anti Islam, you should obey God and His messenger and so on. But the Quranist brought a few things I have not heard so they did well. They refuted the hikmah(wisdom) verses in the Quran being the sunnah since the Quran refers to the book and hikmah in a singular form and not a plural. Subhi Mansour said that even the scholars of islam have said ahad hadith(single narrations) are subject to doubts.
The radiacal Sunni cleric(the same guy who came up with breast feeding for adults) kept asking about how do we know how to pray. He said only when they got stuck did they accepted the rituals and started seperating between action sunnah and textual sunnah. Mansour said the hadiths also does not show us how to pray. He said he has never abandoned a single prayer since his childhood and believes the rituals were mass transmitted and therefore he does not question them.
Mansour also said many people including abu hanifah did not accept hadiths off hand. He also said ibn Hanbal also ridiculed the concept of ijma'(consensus). The sheikh used ijma' a lot. He then said Bukhari is infallible and the ummah agreed to its authenticity and no Muslim can question that. The Quranist laughed at that. He sounded desperate and stupid. But the state actually represented by the former interior minister was more against the Quranist than the sheikh who was struggling hard againt the Quranist. Manosur showed him a fatwa by the clerics in Egypt saying that rejecting sunnah does not make the person leave Islam. Mansour also questioned why the prophet and his companions did not leave behind hadiths and why did we have to wait until the Abbasid for it to emerge.
For most of us here there was nothing new except the clerics are corrupt and a tool for the regimes, although many of us probably knew that anyways.
Overall it was a good case for the Quranist interms of religious discourse however its very clear that the Egyptian state wants to control Islamic discourse there.
Gamal Banna said that the case of the Quranist shows the salafi domination of the religious establishments in Egypt. He said even though he does not agree with the Quranist he understands why they would reject all hadiths. he says many of the hadiths, including Bukhari and Muslim are fabrication and the isnads are tampered with. He did say that the Quranist should tone down their rhetoric. So his views are almost identical to mine. Subhi Mansour does have a barbed(stinging) style of communication.
We have to find someone who will translate this discussion and then we can post them around. We need someone with good knowledge of Arabic and English, but still this video can be posted in Arabic forums and chat rooms for now. Its good because it shows both points of view.
-
Anyone who lives in Egypt can tell me the reaction of the public toward this debate?
The court has ordered their release today. So I guess they benefited from it. I watched Al Jazeera and they had a sheikh defend hadiths so I guess its been creating a problem for the clerics. In Egypt it created a huge buzz media wise.