Prophets Are Supposed To Make Slaughters? (AQ 8:67)
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Al Quran 867
Pickthall It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Yusuf Ali It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but God looketh to the Hereafter And God is Exalted in might, Wise.
Hilali-Khan It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
Shakir It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Sher Ali It does not behove a Prophet that he should have captives until he engages in regular fighting in the land. If you take captives, except in regular fighting, you will be regarded as desiring the goods of this world, while ALLAH desires for you the Hereafter. And ALLAH is Mighty, Wise.
Khalifa No prophet shall acquire captives, unless he participates in the fighting. You people are seeking the materials of this world, while GOD advocates the Hereafter. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
Arberry It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land. You desire the chance goods of the present world, and God desires the world to come; and God is All-mighty, All-wise.
Palmer It has not been for any prophet to take captives until he hath slaughtered in the land! Ye wish to have the goods of this world, but God wishes for the next, for God is mighty, wise!
Rodwell No prophet hath been enabled to take captives until he had made great slaughter in the earth. Ye desire the passing fruitions of this world, but God desireth the next life for you. And God is Mighty, Wise.
Sale It hath not been unto any prophet, that he should possess captives, until he had made a great slaughter in the earth. Ye seek the accidental of this world, but God regardeth the life to come; and God is mighty and wise.
Transliterated Arabic Ma kana linabiyyin an yakoona lahu asra hatta yuthkhina fee al-ardi tureedoona AAarada alddunya waAllahu yureedu al-akhirata waAllahu AAazeezun hakeemun
So can someone well-versed in Arabic explain the verse word for word? To tell the truth as a person who does not understand Arabic this verse is kind of shocking for me.
Peace,
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And it was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless it was in battle. You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is Noble, Wise.
(The Message 867)The above is the The Message version and honestly I think there is an attempt to conceal the truth there.
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From Lanes Lexicon the word can mean.
slaughter
or great and vehement
slaughteror overcome
or inflicted many wounds upon them.
So it can mean do not take prisoners until you have overcome them. Why take prisoners if it costs you the war? Once you know you have overcome them then take prisoners. And in war prisoners can be ransomed for money thats what I believe the "seeking goods of this world" verse is talking about. When you ransom your enemy and let them go they will not stop fighting you but will basically rejoin the war making victory harder for you in the long run.
I am not an Arab expert but I am fairly certain it can mean slaughter or overcome.
Peace
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i believe 2178-79 governs warfare
2178
Khalifa
O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.
Yusuf Ali
O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
Pickthal
O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom.
"Progressive Muslims"
O you who believe, equivalent execution in warfare has been decreed for you in the case of mass killings; the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. Whoever is forgiven anything by his brother, then it is to be followed with good deeds and kindness towards him; that is an alleviation from your Lord, and a mercy. Whoever transgresses after that, he will have a painful retribution.2179
Khalifa
Equivalence is a life saving law for you, O you who possess intelligence, that you may be righteous.
Yusuf Ali
In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves.
Pickthal
And there is life for you in retaliation, O men of understanding, that ye may ward off (evil).
"Progressive Muslims"
And through equivalent execution in warfare, you will be protecting life, O people of understanding, that you may be righteous. -
Anyone well-versed in Arabic please tell me what is the literal meaning of 'Hatta Yuthkina' in English?
From Lane's Lexicon we get the following meanings for the root word THaKHuNa
To beat much or vehemently or excessively
To weaken or enervate by wound or woundS
To slaughter
To overcome
To inflict (many wounds)
However, the primary meaning of this root word has to do with being strong, thick, compact, firm, solid, coarse, dense, hard, stiff, tough, big and it is my belief that This is the appropriate definition to this verse because it says Hatta Yathkina without the attached personal pronoun Hiim which is plural for them. It doesn't say Hatta Yathkinahiim. So, without the attached pronoun (or any attached pronoun for that matter) it would be senseless to apply any of the first five meanings because there is not a target to act upon.
Brother Wakas had put together a very good resource for us all with His Study Quran Site, we should be taking advantage of this.
Regards,
Damon. -
Salaams All,
as i see things-
869-71 ARE TALKING ABOUT THOSE TRAVELLING WITH THE PROPHET.
Asra ? isn?t prisoners of war but travelling. 171 and 867.
Thakhuna is anything done intensely.
867
Not it is for a prophet that he should have travelled until he had made every effort in their disposition you desire the good ???.
869
O prophet say to those who are in your power from the journey knows Allah in your hearts any good?..God Bless.
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This is the word for word English translation of 866-67 from StudyQuran.org
Ma= Not
Kaana= Is
Linabiyyin= For a prophet
An= That
Yakuuna= Be
Laha= For him
Asraa= Captives
Hatta= Until
Yuskhina= Slaughters
Fil= In the
Ardi= LandBro MZ please elaborate more about your clearly 'reformist' translation.
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Salaams Br,
Going back a few ayah?s.
865
O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers for these are a people without understanding.Faqiha = to be learned, understanding.
One person cannot fight ten people in a combat, but can reason and overcome ten.
The ayah says these people are not able to understand it doesn?t say they are not able to fight.I don?t think the word Qataal means a physical fighting at all but more like overcoming people by shear argument.
A prophet doesn?t have the right to leave people who ?don?t get it? but ought to make every endeavour to make them understand before giving up to depart-travel.
And prophets are lovers of peace not bloodshed.
Here is one example From Lanes
Qatala-Ashai = He knew the thing; He was or became acquainted with it.
God Bless.
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Dear Jankren,
The above is the The Message version and honestly I think there is an attempt to conceal the truth there.
Oh yeah I would also like brother Layth to explain his seemingly inaccurate translation regarding the verse.
The truth regarding God and His Scripture are to be broadcast, never concealed.
You have based your hypothetical conspirasy on a bunch of faulty translations that somehow have become
truthin your mind.Do you really believe God had said that the Prophet is to commit great slaughter in the land before being allowed to take prisoners? Does this fit the other verses of the Quran? Does that fit God
s character? Does it fit the Prophets character as mentioned in the Quran? This sounds like the kind of dileberate smear campaign I would hear over at FFI or any of the other anti-Muslim websites.The word
thakhanby no streach of the imagination can mean slaughterThe closest literal meaning to the word is
to make thickorbind.The Prophet cannot take prisoners unless he
bindsthem (yatkhun) while on a military campaign (my closest understanding to the wordsin the land).This can easily be verified by looking at the only other occuarnce of
thakhanwhich is in 474Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks; until you thakhantumuhum (bind them), then secure the cords. You may then either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.(474)If
thankahntumwas to slaughter, then the above verse would bizzarly mean that the Prophet would secure the bonds on corpses whom he would then set them free or ransom them! -
Im very confused. I dunno who to trust more regarding the translation. Even Layth's and MZ's translations differ greatly.
Bro Layth, in order to make your translation clearer to me can you please translate the verse word for word?
By the way, Im sorry if you felt offended by my accusation.
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Peace Jankren,
By the way, Im sorry if you felt offended by my accusation.
No harm done. Sometimes words sound worse when they lack the body language/expression that accompany them in a normal discussion.
Bro Layth, in order to make your translation clearer to me can you please translate the verse word for word?
Here is my take on both verses to the best of my knowledge
And it was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless he binds them in a campaign. You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is Noble, Wise. (867)
Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks; until you bind them, then secure the cords. You may then either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste. (474)
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Peace,
In 474 are you sure its "necks" ? Can one strike the necks without killing ?
The word
riqabis a plural forraqaba(neck). Now, the word can be used two ways, it can be used to mean simplyneckor, it can be used to reference slaves who are called so because they were tied by their necks, especially in slave markets.In the context of 474 I would say without doubt it means
necks(not slaves) as the subject matter is identified as being one of war.Doesnt the word 'Hatta' mean 'Until' not 'Unless'? At least this is what I was taught in my Arabic class.
I would see no harm in using either depending on the sentence/context. But you are correct, it is closer to Until.
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Salaams All,
I still think it is the most mistranslated Holy book in the world that i know of.
047.001
YUSUFALI Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah,- their deeds will Allah render astray (from their mark).
047.002
YUSUFALI But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
047.003
YUSUFALI This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.047.004
YUSUFALI Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded) but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.474 - New trans using lanes only;
So when you meet those who disbelieve propound/ show/ compare their heavy burdens- what they are regardful of till when you have overcome them-by reasoning then show firmness making a bond either of generosity thereafter or redemption until lays down their despoiled ways its??.047.005
YUSUFALI Soon will He guide them and improve their condition,
047.006
YUSUFALI And admit them to the Garden which He has announced for them.
047.007
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly.
047.008
YUSUFALI But those who reject (Allah),- for them is destruction, and (Allah) will render their deeds astray (from their mark).God Bless All.
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Hi
In 474 are you sure its "necks" ? Can one strike the necks without killing ?
Of course. If you have seen any modern war movies you will see they do it all the time. When the enemy soldier is alone and about to be taken captive they strike him on the back of the neck with the back of their rifles to knock him unconscious and then tie him up.
I guess in war situation you would not take the risk of just trying to tie him without knocking him unconscious first.
I hope this helps.
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Hi
Of course. If you have seen any modern war movies you will see they do it all the time. When the enemy soldier is alone and about to be taken captive they strike him on the back of the neck with the back of their rifles to knock him unconscious and then tie him up.
I guess in war situation you would not take the risk of just trying to tie him without knocking him unconscious first.
I hope this helps.
Except in the 7th century they used scmitar not rifle. Unless you hit their necks with the handle of your spear or with your arms.
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Salam Everyone;
I know I'm very late to reply but I stumbled upon this post while googling the meaning of the mentioned verse . I found my answer while looking in Arabic dictionaries. Arabic is my mother language and that's why I'm hoping to be of help to those who may not have found an answer yet.
The literal meaning of the word yuthkhin (root th-kh-n) is to intensify, solidify, strengthen, or thicken.
The word also means to beat, defeat or overcome.Verse says "Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them (athkhantumuhum), then making fast of bonds." - Pickthall
The meaning of the word 'athkhantumuhum' here is to route and defeat which requires to be the stronger party. This is the meaning provided in both Pickthall translation and the Arabic dictionary. It also has the same meaning in other translation
Yusuf Ali to subdue
Shakir to overcome
Dr Ghali to subjugate, and he adds a note saying (Wrongly understood by Arberry and others to mean "slaughter"Now lets get back to the verse in question. It says "It is not for any prophet to have captives until 'yuthkina' in the land."
The Arabic dictionary explains it in this context by giving two meanings. One is to slaughter, and the other to subdue the land after a battle.And if we look at different translations we see
Pickthall to make slaughter in the land
Yusuf Ali to subdue the land
Shakir to fight and triumph
Dr Ghali to subjugate the enemy in the earthTaking the second meaning, which is the same meaning of the word when it occurs in verse it becomes
"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he has subdued/triumphed in the land."
Which makes sense. You win the battle and take captives.
You can find the Arabic dictionary on this link http//www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%AB%D8%AE%D9%86
And the different translations here http//quran.com/8/67Hope this helps
