Salat Article (Unorthodox View)

Layth

Peace,

I have managed a re-write of the Salat article. The direction this topic took during a group research was unexpected to say the least.

My personal belief is that this issue that has been elusive for some-time and a stumbling block for unity amongst our Muslim communinity may be at an end.

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.pdf (pdf format)

Angel

nice article. handshake

the picture with the lady injuring that kid is horrific '(, notice how the stupid cow is not covered in blood herself >

savage_carrot

I agree, good reading and those images drive the point home. What on earth was that woman doing to that child anyway! Sick.

nadeem

Peace,

Thanks for the article, Brother Layth.

But I wonder how it fits with what brother Wakas has written
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm

Nadeem

jankren

Those pictures are probably taken durin Karbala festival where Shiahs put fake blood on themselves and celebrate the death of Hussein.

Angel

many don't actually use fake blood and believe that the more you hurt your self the more pious you are. As for injuring children, the mad gits do that coz they believe that they will be blessed by imam Hussein. I've seen many pictures of kids being badly beaten because of this, and judging from the look on the children's faces they did not look fake. >

explorer

Peace,

I have managed a re-write of the Salat article. The direction this topic took during a group research was unexpected to say the least.

My personal belief is that this issue that has been elusive for some-time and a stumbling block for unity amongst our Muslim communinity may be at an end.

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.pdf (pdf format)

Layth, I have read your article. Most points are impressive.

Two questions for you.

Why are you suggesting that the SALAT should end with these specific words

"And say 'Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.' And glorify Him greatly." (17111)

I like the reasoning at the beginning of your article.

Most people perform contract prayers
They also do evil deeds
God has promised that SALAT prevents evil deeds
Therefore contact prayer IS NOT EQUAL to SALAT.

You are suggesting that if we perform SALAT correctly then we will not do evil deeds.

You are suggesting that a possible correct method is to make a connection to God via SPIRIT (part of God within us) at sunset and (before) sunrise.

The regular MAGHRIB and FAJR contact prayers could fall in the domain of correct SALAT. MAGHRAB and FAJR prayers have all the components you are proposing.

So can we say that if Gods promise is true (SALAT prevents EVIL), than it is impossible to find a person who performs regular MAGHRIB and FAJR contact prayers and who also do evils deed?

I am possing this question to verify my understanding of your article. The objective is not to raise unnecessary arguments, just for the sake of it.

Thanks

AlFajr

Very Excellant article and I agree with most of it.

A few points, The article read

"So when you are done making the Salat, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides; then, when you are relieved, you shall honor the Salat. Indeed, the Salat for the believers is a timed decree." (4103)

To achieve the focus required for a successful connection, the person may be standing, sitting or lying down depending on their individual circumstance/preference.

It says when you are "done". Wouldn't it be more accurate to say after you finish praying, meditate on God whilst standing, sitting or lying down?

Also it said

The above verse is normally translated as referring to three Salat times (the two edges of the day and a part of the night), however, the Arabic word used is "zulfan" which is a plural form meaning "the near parts" (see 3437, 393 for the singular use of the word). The correct meaning therefore is the two edges of the day, moving towards the adjacent parts of the night.

But what about this verse?
Literal So you be patient on what they say, and praise/glorify with your Lord's praise/gratitude/thanks, before the sun's ascent/rising, and before its decline/setting , and from the night's hours so praise/glorify, and the daytime's ends/edges, maybe/perhaps you accept/approve.

Free-Minds
So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and from the early part of the night glorify, and at the edges of the day that you may be content.

I hope we can all come to a conclusion on the true Salat. I am currently praying 3 times, before sunrise, before sunset, and the adjacent/near part of the night.

Peace
Al

Layth

Peace,

Explorer

Two questions for you.

Why are you suggesting that the SALAT should end with these specific words

"And say 'Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.' And glorify Him greatly." (17111)

I like the reasoning at the beginning of your article.

Most people perform contract prayers
They also do evil deeds
God has promised that SALAT prevents evil deeds
Therefore contact prayer IS NOT EQUAL to SALAT.

You are suggesting that if we perform SALAT correctly then we will not do evil deeds.

You are suggesting that a possible correct method is to make a connection to God via SPIRIT (part of God within us) at sunset and (before) sunrise.

The regular MAGHRIB and FAJR contact prayers could fall in the domain of correct SALAT. MAGHRAB and FAJR prayers have all the components you are proposing.

So can we say that if Gods promise is true (SALAT prevents EVIL), than it is impossible to find a person who performs regular MAGHRIB and FAJR contact prayers and who also do evils deed?

On point # 1, I see from reading through various sections that a Salat/Connection needs an end (for example, see 4104 where people are ending their Salat with an action - yeilding/prostrating). Also, from the wording of 17111 it appears to be a command more than an observation (and Say). I could be wrong, but an ending seems in order.

On point # 2, our access to the Spirit exists 24/7 (not restricted to a specific time or place), however, the Quran teaches that the optimal times for us to succseed in making a communication through the Spirit are at these times around dawn and dusk. A person who is successful at making the link with the Spirit will be at peace with his/her innerself, and hence would not be a person inclined to vice and/or evil.

Al

A few points, The article read

"So when you are done making the Salat, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides; then, when you are relieved, you shall honor the Salat. Indeed, the Salat for the believers is a timed decree." (4103)

To achieve the focus required for a successful connection, the person may be standing, sitting or lying down depending on their individual circumstance/preference.

It says when you are "done". Wouldn't it be more accurate to say after you finish praying, meditate on God whilst standing, sitting or lying down?

You are correct. This needs re-wording/correction.

Also it said

The above verse is normally translated as referring to three Salat times (the two edges of the day and a part of the night), however, the Arabic word used is "zulfan" which is a plural form meaning "the near parts" (see 3437, 393 for the singular use of the word). The correct meaning therefore is the two edges of the day, moving towards the adjacent parts of the night.

But what about this verse?
Literal So you be patient on what they say, and praise/glorify with your Lord's praise/gratitude/thanks, before the sun's ascent/rising, and before its decline/setting , and from the night's hours so praise/glorify, and the daytime's ends/edges, maybe/perhaps you accept/approve.

Free-Minds
So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and from the early part of the night glorify, and at the edges of the day that you may be content.

I hope we can all come to a conclusion on the true Salat. I am currently praying 3 times, before sunrise, before sunset, and the adjacent/near part of the night.

The optimal Salat time is given as a period not a point, therefore there is no contradiction between the two verses you mention as you begin the Salat at periods which encompass the edges of the day, parts of the night, and sunrise/sunset.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Layth,

I like this direction brother. I hope to get back involved with Free _Minds shortly and share my thoughts on this.

explorer

Layth, thanks for taking out time to answer my questions. I did not quite get the answer for question 2. Let me rephrase my questions.

You have mentioned following steps for performing a SALAT (Connection to spirit).

Purification/Cleansing of the Body
Be of a Clear Mind
Be in Groups or Alone
Be in a Stationary Position
Be Standing, sitting, or Lying Down
Call on God's Attributes
Seek Refuge From Satan
Recite From the Scripture
Ask and You Shall Receive
End With Specific Words

A regular muslim salaat contains all these steps (except for the last one, to be strictly speaking).

Question Would a regular muslim Salat fall under your proposed definition of SALAT?

explorer

..... What I am saying is this The salat that muslims perform is a superset of what you are proposing and hence would pass the litmus test.

Jack

salaam bro Layth,

Great article, just one suggestion ... wouldn't it be more appropriate to end the salat with 1010? The latter part of the verse obviously

Layth

Salam,

Explorer

You have mentioned following steps for performing a SALAT (Connection to spirit).

Purification/Cleansing of the Body
Be of a Clear Mind
Be in Groups or Alone
Be in a Stationary Position
Be Standing, sitting, or Lying Down
Call on God's Attributes
Seek Refuge From Satan
Recite From the Scripture
Ask and You Shall Receive
End With Specific Words

A regular muslim salaat contains all these steps (except for the last one, to be strictly speaking).

Question Would a regular muslim Salat fall under your proposed definition of SALAT?

Upon review, I have added one more to the above list have a purpose which I have incorporated in the article.

To answer your question unless that person was able to connect with the Spirit, then the answer is no since he/she would not be able to obtain the benefits associated therein.

Kyle Good to see you back bro )

DArgento Here is how I have reworded the section that deals with the ending (I believe it avoids the speculation that may arise by specifying which words to sa)

End the Connection

Once the person has connected with the Spirit and has achieved the answers sought or has made the request desired, then the connection is to be ended through a physical acknowledgement (i.e. prostration) and with praise and glorification to God

?And if you are with them and you hold the Connection for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; and let a group who has not yet connected come and connect with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.? (4102)

"And say 'Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.' And glorify Him greatly." (17111)

AlFajr

Ok thanks Layth for answering my questions.

Peace
Al

Wakas

peace Layth, all,

Whilst I feel the underlying point of "salat" meaning link/connect is solid, what you felt should be linked/connected to was off in my opinion. Some of the relationships you drew to support this I would not consider solid points.

I do not have time to critique the full article but a few points

The fundamental difference between mumineen and muslimeen and why the regular/timed "salat" is prescribed upon one and not the other is not covered.

The extremely strong link between al quran and the "salat" of the mumineen is not given enough emphasis.

Signs/ayatin that I would consider problematic for such an interpretation are not even covered, e.g. 1187, chapter 9, amongst others.

My "salat" articles can be found here
http//mypercept.co.uk/slw.htm (an introductory article to the basic concept)
http//mypercept.co.uk/quran_on_salat.htm (reasonably comprehensive list of additional information)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm (a discussion on chapter 9's pivotal usage)

Finally, is it possible to still read your previous "salat" articles online? The reason being, is that seeing a progression of view is helpful sometimes but mainly because previous articles contained points not covered in this article.

Wakas

Also, I just noticed that when one clicks on "Quranic Laws/Behaviours" some articles do not show, for example the following "salat" article does not show

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_wakas.htm

Please amend it, also that article has been updated
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm

Thanks.

Layth

Salam Wakas,

Thank you for your feedback.

Unless God wills otherwise, I will try to add a section on the believers vs. submitters as it goes without saying that people who have advanced in their faith would be the ones who seek the connection/salat more so than regular people.

On your reference to Shoaib in 1187, it should be evident that the described purpose of Salat (linking with Spirit) is exactly what gave Shoaib his insights/information hence the people asking him if his Salat was telling him that they should do so and so (no reference to a scripture, but to a medium).

On Sura 9, I believe you have a flaw in the analysis and conclusions made.

You begin with the assumption (correctly so) that Salat is mainly accessed by people who have advanced and hence become believers...Then you examine Sura 9 and notice that the people who are being asked to repent and hold the Salat before being fought in battle/killed are actually polytheists (mushrikeen), hence your inference that Salat must be something that even mushrikeen can do, which leads you to say it is simply an oath/bond.

If you note Sura 9, the people being given an ultimatium and then being fought and killed (95) were in-fact believers at one point in the verses of the Almighty (99) and were aware enough to know who are believers and who are simply submitters (910). Hence, the group being adressed and fought is not a bunch of bandits, but rather is a groups of people who were at one point believers themselves but had rebelled and sided against the believers.

The Quran tells us that a person may reach the status of believer and then may revert back to rejection and hypocracy

Those who believe, then reject, then believe, then reject, then they increase in rejection; God was neither to forgive them nor to guide them to the path. (4137)

I believe once you identify the group in Sura 9 correctly (that they are ex-believers), then the seeming discrepency that arises with Salat dissapears. These people were at one point able to seek God through Salat and hence were able to reach the benefits of staying away from evil and vice. But when they rejected, they became hostile and are being told (come back to us) rather than wasting them away in battle.

P.S. I updated your article with the latest one, but could not understand your comment about there being no link to it (I found a link clearly in the articles section).

Regards,

siki

Layth, Wakas!

What is your final opinion regarding Salat ul Jumma?

Layth

Your latest article is definitely an improvement, May God bless you for your efforts.

By the way are you sure of the opinion that being a Momin is a higher state than being a Muslim? Because i am still confused on the issue, even after that lengthy debate between Tanveer and AB.

siki

unknownuser

Peace all,

Brother Layth, congratulations on finally realizing that according to al-qur'aan, the timed salaat of the muslimeen/mumineen is to be established twice a day, at dawn and dusk.

In my understanding, salaat is obligatory upon all muslimeen and not just mumineen, although I agree that the connection of mumineen will be stronger than that of the "non-mumin muslimeen". Please see the following discussion for evidences from al-qur'aan

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0

Another point is that one CANNOT say that salaat is NOT for muslimeen, because mumineen have been directly called/named muslimeen in 2278.

As far as yaum al-jum'3a is concerned, my understanding is as follows

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14080.msg123925#msg123925 ("yawm al-jum3a" and the call)

As far as the connection itself is concerned, it is a mental/spiritual + physical connection with/for/to The God; of course the mental aspect being the more important one

2014 "I am God, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and hold the Connection for My remembrance

6162 Say "My connection, and my offerings, and my life, and my death, are all to God the Lord of the worlds."

I agree that The God is connected to us at all times, but the salaat is a way for us to establish and reinforce and strengthen our connection with The God. Connection is a two way thing and even though The God is connected to us at all times, unfortunately we forget to connect with The God many times, and salaat is a remedy for that ailment.