Can a Muslimah marry a non-Muslim?
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Peace,
Samia, if you look carefully for the males it is muh-sinoona and for the females muhsanaatun. The female is passive(fortified) and the male is active(fortifier).
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam Anwar
This is manipulated tashkeel (vocalization) so as to make men (yu7sinuuna) women and so we understand that mu7sanaat means married. Otherwise, explain to me whom are men "mu7sinuun"? And who is "mu7sin" the woman?
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2221 Do not MARRY unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor MARRY (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind That they may celebrate His praise.
Innama almuminoona allatheena itha thukira Allahu wajilat quloobuhum waitha tuliyat AAalayhim ayatuhu zadathum eemanan waAAala rabbihim yatawakkaloona
82 For, BELIEVERS ARE those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord;Those are the main criteria; marry ?believers? and in the case of a Muslem girl; as long as she does not have to convert and is allowed to teach the kids, its fine even with those of prior scripture for if the husband is an unbeliever he will never accept those terms.
Recently had this issue with one of the girls in my family; he was willing to convert ? told him that is not necessary, ?no compulsion in religion?, along with stance on trinity, that it makes no sense for God to pray, etc. and what?s important is believe in God which he does and agrees to no church wedding or baptism of kids, they?ll be taught by the mother and can make up their own minds which they?ll do anyway when they grow up.
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Do we have any instrument to measure an individual, as to how much he/she believes?
If an individual by faith, likes to be called a Muslim/submitter , that should be enough , if he is a bad Muslim or good , let us leave it to God. In the same way , if some one is a declared Christian, no matter how good he is , he stays as , "The follower of the previous scripture".
Even if a Christian is following All mighty's commands better than a Muslim , he would remain a follower of the previous scripture , and hence a Momina mohsinnat is not suppose to wed him.
siki
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Do we have any instrument to measure an individual, as to how much he/she believes?
Even if a Christian is following All mighty's commands better than a Muslim , he would remain a follower of the previous scripture , and hence a Momina mohsinnat is not suppose to wed him.
siki
Salaam siki
Has God said that? Or you are just putting words in His mouth? Couldn't He said that when He mentioned whom a mu'mina should not marry? He explicitely mentioned the kafirs, the idolators and the zanis.
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Do we have any instrument to measure an individual, as to how much he/she believes?
If an individual by faith, likes to be called a Muslim/submitter , that should be enough , if he is a bad Muslim or good , let us leave it to God. In the same way , if some one is a declared Christian, no matter how good he is , he stays as , "The follower of the previous scripture".
Even if a Christian is following All mighty's commands better than a Muslim , he would remain a follower of the previous scripture , and hence a Momina mohsinnat is not suppose to wed him.
siki
If a "Christian" is following Allah's commands better than a "Muslim" that makes him a muslim, matey.
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There are precisely three categories, Believers, idolaters, and followers of previous scriptures., and the world still can be divided into these three categories.
what you guys are trying to say is , "There is no difference between Believers and followers of previous scriptures. If there was none, why God had to specifically allow mohsinnats of otul kitab?
Moreover , how can you leave it to an individual's judgment weather some one passes the Devinne criteria to be categorised as a believer?
A believer is some one , who accepts Quran as his final guidance, To what degree does he follow the instructions laid down in it , is no one can judge and is no body's business except HIM. we all fluctuate at different levels throughout our lives, some improve with time, most stagnate and a few take a negative plunge .
"Otul kitab guys" , no matter how good they are , they do not accept the Quran and what ever they are hanging on to , is corrupted and is superceded . As such , achieving 100% what God desires from us is an impossibility for a Christian , or a Jew.
peace
siki
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Salaam siki
Has God said that? Or you are just putting words in His mouth? Couldn't He said that when He mentioned whom a mu'mina should not marry? He explicitly mentioned the kafirs, the idolators and the zanis.
But, she/he is being precisely told , whom they can marry, and they are people belonging to Momineen(believers) , A further concession has been granted to the Men in 5-5.
And the prohibition is similar for both except the clause in 5-5 for the Mohsinnats Otul kitab
siki
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Do you know any one out of them, who likes to be called by such a title?
siki
A submitter to one God? All of them.
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But, she/he is being precisely told , whom they can marry, and they are people belonging to Momineen(believers) , A further concession has been granted to the Men in 5-5.
And the prohibition is similar for both except the clause in 5-5 for the Mohsinnats Otul kitab
siki
I know whom she is allowed to marry, and I understand that verse 55 addresses both genders and continues addressing them till the end of it.
My question is, you decide that it is not allowed, aka haraam, to marry a non "muslim", where is this prohibition?
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Peace,
Samia, I'm not sure what you mean by manipulation of the tashkeel ( I know what tashkeel is but don't understand the manipulation part). One is obviously passive and the other is active. In the case of the men wanting to be with women they are to be moral (and possibly) physical fortifiers (desiring chastity and morality from their mates and not seeking to corrupt them) and for the women who are desired to be married they are to be morally & physically fortified. The women can be a muh-sinatun as well, but it is clear that she is muhsAnatun, meaning that she has been fortified obviously by her family and herself.
Siki, as for people of previous scriptures not being able to be mu'minoona this is incorrect. Firstly a mu'min in the Quran is defined by 262 whoever has faith in God, the last day and does righteous deeds. Furthermore 3110 & 3113-114 let us know that those who follow scripture under which the Quran has included Christians and Jews can also be believers to. 3110 makes this clear. Minhum al-mu'minoona (among them are believers/faithful in God). Believer, in the Quranic context does not mean Muslim. In actually Muslim in the Quran doesn't even mean Muslim (as we mean it now). In the Quran according to 262 a believer/one faithful to God, the last day and does righteous deeds. Whereas a Muslim is someone submissive and the Quran speaks of being submissive to God (muslimoona Lillahi) without the lillaahi this does not mean submissive to God and by believer or faithful we have to be specific that that faithfulness is in God not the religion & traditions of Islam. No trinitarians technicaly are not faithful to God (all you have to do is talk to them to long enough and you will find out that they don't even care what Jesus and other prophets (God bless them) really have to say even within their own Bible). But not all Christians are trinitarians and there are even some who may belong to these churches or may call themselves christians but don't believe in the trinity in its official doctrine some of them just adjust their belief to these 3 things being what they should give the most importance to and not that they are equal or one in the same. My wife for instance grew up in the catholic and 7th day adventist circle and I questioned her before I married her on who was more important Jesus or God. She said God. She knew that there was a difference and that God is most important. Additionally I show her portions from the Bible and the Quran on official and blasphemous "Christian" doctrines and ideas. For instance consider the Book of Isaiah "I, I am the Lord God and besides Me there is no Savior" Isaiah 43 11. Yet look at what many Trinitarian "Christians" always say, taking Jesus as their savior when within their own bible and from the prophet Isaiah's mouth they have this. I got this info from www.mostmerciful.com and double checked it and saw it to be true.
That is why the Quran says that those who really believe among the Christians and Jews actually read what God has to say (through the words of his prophets) in their books. If you read the words of Jesus in the testament you will be shocked. The only questionable verse in the only son verse and it can man unique son. We have to understand also that son of God is an expression. However in Arabic saying walad and ibn are two different things. The Quran says that the Jews and Christians call themselves the sons abnaa' and belove ahibaa' of God. But God does'n't say this is wrong he just questions their sincerity and why God punishes them if they are really the beloved of God and his sons/children.
There are many parts in the Bible that say that those who walk in the ways of the Lord and who are born in God are his sons/children. So if they really did that God would have not need to punish them, would he? But they know that He does, so they are lying to themselves.
Godbless,
AnwarGodbless,
Anwar -
I know whom she is allowed to marry, and I understand that verse 55 addresses both genders and continues addressing them till the end of it.
My question is, you decide that it is not allowed, aka haraam, to marry a non "muslim", where is this prohibition?
yes both the genders are being addressed, but permission is being granted to bring in a Mohsinnat, ONLY. Does MOhsinnat include the masculine plural any where in Quran ? No i don't think so. Has this permission been for both , some sentence like, " And you may marry among otul kitab" was sufficient to leave no ambiguity.
Samia ! i am amazed , as to how a very simple and straight forward instruction can be denied, if one's heart does not want to accept a gender biased command.
Your argument is like those Sunni sectarians, whom when we ask , as to why do they carry extra step wadu, despite clear instructions in Quran spelling out 4 steps , and they reply , where is the prohibition , that we cannot carry out these extra cleanings?
siki
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yes both the genders are being addressed, but permission is being granted to bring in a Mohsinnat, ONLY. Does MOhsinnat include the masculine plural any where in Quran ?
244 "wallatheena yarmuunal mu7sanaati thumma lam ya'tuu bi'rba3ati shuhadaa' fajliduuhum thamaaneena jaldatan ..."
"and those who accuse "muhsans" and produce not four witnesses...."
Unles you believe that it is OK to slander men!!Samia ! i am amazed , as to how a very simple and straight forward instruction can be denied, if one's heart does not want to accept a gender biased command.
Where's this "very simple and straightforward instruction", or any instruction at all, that I am denying?! I am denying that you say something is haram, I am denying this addition.
Your argument is like those Sunni sectarians, whom when we ask , as to why do they carry extra step wadu, despite clear instructions in Quran spelling out 4 steps , and they reply , where is the prohibition , that we cannot carry out these extra cleanings?
You amaze me by your reversed logic!!
Actually, my argument should be like our argument to the "hadithists" as from where they got the additional elements of wadu! I am asking the same thing where did you get this "additional" element of making something unlawful to women when it is not there?Let me ask you where in the qur'aan do you find a general rule made lawful to men and unlawful to women?
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Peace,
Samia, I'm not sure what you mean by manipulation of the tashkeel ( I know what tashkeel is but don't understand the manipulation part). One is obviously passive and the other is active. In the case of the men wanting to be with women they are to be moral (and possibly) physical fortifiers (desiring chastity and morality from their mates and not seeking to corrupt them) and for the women who are desired to be married they are to be morally & physically fortified. The women can be a muh-sinatun as well, but it is clear that she is muhsAnatun, meaning that she has been fortified obviously by her family and herself.
Salaam Anwar
(mu7Sinuun) and (mu7Sanuun) are written the same way, as you see. The "i" or "a" that appears after the letter "S" is a short vowel (tashkeel). Putting one or the other makes the word passive or active participle. The way you understand it will dictate which short vowel you will apply.
Fortified should be "mu7aSSan", not "mu7San". You should know that from tasreef, when a verb is derived from an object to mean an action hiSn (fort)= haSSan fortify; thalj (ice) thallaj make ice or like ice, freeze. This is one of the applications of form II, and only form II is used for this kind of tasreef of verbs derived from a three-letterd noun.
The correct meaning is immune, derived from a verb derived from the same noun (7iSn) but of the form I.
By logic, and by their nature, if mu7sin meant protector from vice, women are more "mu7Sinaat" of men than men of women.
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244 "wallatheena yarmuunal mu7sanaati thumma lam ya'tuu bi'rba3ati shuhadaa' fajliduuhum thamaaneena jaldatan ..."
"and those who accuse "muhsans" and produce not four witnesses...."
Unles you believe that it is OK to slander men!!what you quote in red is incorrect , it is Mohsannti.
The term Mohsinnat does not include male gender anywhere in quran and is exclusively used for women. and even in 24-4 it does not . I must say , you are going into great lengths(negative) just to prove a point.
You mean to say that where ever the term Mohsinnat is used , it includes the male gender? when the believers are told that you may marry Mohsinnats provided you pay them their ujoors, do you mean that it is the women (as well) who should pay ujoors?
It is not ok to falsely accuse a gentleman, but there is no compulsion to produce 4 witnesses or any punishment for such an accusation.
siki
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Where's this "very simple and straightforward instruction", or any instruction at all, that I am denying?! I am denying that you say something is haram, I am denying this addition.
where is it written in Quran that it is prohibited for the women to marry a woman? or for that matter to a bull, or a donkey?
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Let me ask you where in the qur'aan do you find a general rule made lawful to men and unlawful to women?
A man can marry more than one women at a time but the women can not have multiple husbands.
As a general rule , women is recommended for half the share of a man in inheritance.
want more ?
siki
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what you quote in red is incorrect , it is Mohsannti.
244 "wallatheena yarmuunal mu7sanaati thumma lam ya'tuu bi'rba3ati shuhadaa' fajliduuhum thamaaneena jaldatan ..."
"and those who accuse "muhsans" and produce not four witnesses...."
Unles you believe that it is OK to slander men!!I was not transliterating the verse. It is in English. Since I do not agree with
- Your understanding of the meaning of the word "mu7san/a"
- Gender of it in thi verse
I decided not to translate it, nor show its gender, hence "muhsans", which is not even a transliteration.
The term Mohsinnat does not include male gender anywhere in quran and is exclusively used for women. and even in 24-4 it does not. I must say , you are going into great lengths(negative) just to prove a point.
So you believe that it is OK to slander men, and no punishment should be applied! Imagine I say that I saw Mr. X having sex with Ms Y. Only Ms Y can complain, but not Mr. X. I can freely accuse any two men of having gay sex and get away with it. Great! Or even more, a wife can see her husband in bed with a female, but cannot complain, because she cannot be slandering her husband..so even the verses 246-9 do not apply to her.
You are going into great lengths to disprove justice.
You mean to say that where ever the term Mohsinnat is used , it includes the male gender?
I do not speak of isolated words. I speak of address. I always say that the address in the qur'aan is to both genders unless it is explicitly proven otherwise. And when such a verse (i.e addressing both genders) entails a feminine noun, this should be understood as (the opposite sex). You can find this understanding in one of my posts in this very thread and in many other threads.
It is not OK to falsely accuse a gentleman, but there is no compulsion to produce 4 witnesses or any punishment for such an accusation
Why not? It seems it is not harmful since, according to you, God did not prohibit that.