Be despised apes!

explorer

Question 1 Has God made para-normal events to take place in the past? I am talking about the events that are above physcial/scientific laws. What is consensus of Quran-only muslims on this subject? I know most muslims believe that miracles used to take place before but not any more.

Question 2 This is how I understood 265.

They transgressed the Sabbath
God converted them to Apes. Homo sepiens got converted into Apes at the drop of a hat. One specie suddenly got converted into a disparate specie. This new specie has a different number of chromosomes ... a para-physical, para-scientific event.
This way people could identify who were the transgressors.

Is my above understanding concurs with yours?

Verses

265 You have come to know who it was amongst you that transgressed the Sabbath, We said to them "Be despicable apes!"
266 So it was that We kept it as a lesson for what had happened in it and also afterwards, and a reminder to the righteous.

My Difficulty

The idea, that events took place violating physical laws, is not easy to sell (to myself).

I am hoping that there is some other interpretation to 265 that conforms to physical laws.

unknownuser

No, not at all. God stays within his laws. I'll see if I can find those verses later. I do not know about the consensus, but there is almost always a rational explanation for everything "paranormal".

Now, I'm not so sure about 265/66. It could be the case that it is literal, but how long have Jews been on Earth? Any time enough for that sort of evolution? Not likely. So it is presumably a metaphor or allegory. Other translations note it as a metaphor.

unknownuser

Peace explorer,

Let me give you an example from English language. Let us consider the word "dog" or "bitch"

From dictionary.com

dog /dg, dg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, dogged, dog?ging.
?noun

a domesticated canid, Canis familiaris, bred in many varieties.
any carnivore of the dogfamily Canidae, having prominent canine teeth and, in the wild state, a long and slender muzzle, a deep-chested muscular body, a bushy tail, and large, erect ears. Compare canid.
the male of such an animal.
any of various animals resembling a dog.
a despicable man or youth.
Informal. a fellow in general a lucky dog.
dogs, Slang. feet.
Slang. a. something worthless or of extremely poor quality That used car you bought is a dog.
b. an utter failure; flop Critics say his new play is a dog.
Slang. an ugly, boring, or crude person.

bitch /bt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?noun

a female dog.
a female of canines generally.
Slang. a. a malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, esp. a woman.
b. a lewd woman.

If I say, "he used to be a nice person but has now become a dog", I mean to say that he has turned into a despicable person, not that he has literally turned into the animal dog. If I say "she has become a bitch", I mean to say that she has become a malicious, selfish or lewd woman, not that she has literally become a female dog. Do you think that The God is not capable of similar metaphorical speech ?

Let's see the word "ape" in English

ape /ep/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, aped, ap?ing.
?noun 1. any of a group of anthropoid primates characterized by long arms, a broad chest, and the absence of a tail, comprising the family Pongidae (great ape), which includes the chimpanzee, gorilla, and orangutan, and the family Hylobatidae (lesser ape), which includes the gibbon and siamang.
2. (loosely) any primate except humans.
3. an imitator; mimic.
4. Informal. a big, ugly, clumsy person.

As you can see, even in English language, the word ape can be used metaphorically for an ugly and clumsy person. When The God said to them "be despicable apes", it can easily mean that He turned them into despicable, ugly, clumsy people.

In Classical Arabic, similar metaphorical usage is common. For example, if you look up the word "qiradah" under the root QRD in Project Root List, you will find the following

Qaf-Ra-Dal = to cling to the ground, lie in dust, become abject or mean. qiradatan - apes, monkeys.

qiradah n.m. (pl. of qird) 265, 560, 7166

LL, V7, p 40, 41

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

If you cross reference other usages of the word "qiradah" in the Qur'aan, you will find that it is clearly used in a metaphorical sense according to the context. For example

560 Say "Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worst place and are more astray from the right path."

Here, the usage of the metaphorical phrase "servants of evil" clearly shows that the preceding words "apes and pigs" are also used in a metaphorical sense.

Again, from dictionary.com

pig /pg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, pigged, pig?ging.
?noun

a young swine of either sex, esp. a domestic hog, Sus scrofa, weighing less than 120 lb. (220 kg.)
any wild or domestic swine.
the flesh of swine; pork.
a person of piglike character, behavior, or habits, as one who is gluttonous, very fat, greedy, selfish, or filthy.

Hope that helps.

explorer

Thanks OPF and Tanveer for your time.

Your input helped. It is convincing.

Khalifa and you seem to be of one mind.

KHALIFA You have known about those among you who desecrated the Sabbath. We said to them, "Be you as despicable as apes."

unknownuser

Aside from the 19 code, Khalifa has done quite some good work. Let's not get into that here though

Is there any more information on this?

AlFajr

I wouldn't altogether rule out the paranormal. We can never know the power of the Almighty, the Quran also mentions he turned people into pigs. And coincidently, those two species show a striking amount of similarity with our human species. So I personally would not rule out the paranormal. After all, he could have said donkey, weasel, snake and usage of those terms would be clearly symbolical.

Peace
Al

jonny_k

Peace "aalmakto",

I wouldn't altogether rule out the paranormal. We can never know the power of the Almighty, the Quran also mentions he turned people into pigs. And coincidently, those two species show a striking amount of similarity with our human species. So I personally would not rule out the paranormal. After all, he could have said donkey, weasel, snake and usage of those terms would be clearly symbolical.

Peace
Al

JK- Even if we took the verse literally, there is absolutely n0 need for any paranormal intervention. GOD couldve and woulve planed all this ahead of time(i.e. before big bang) since He already knew that after so many billion yrs certain people would come and disobey certain crucial laws so He setup the constants for natural seection to turn human species into apes and pigs over a certain period of time(Quran doesnt claim instant mutation). Evolution can work in all directions, can make a being inferior in intelligence, sammler, bigger, etc depending on the environment a creature lives in OR CREATES due to eg, misdeeds relative to its species. Archeological evindece for such however has yet to be found shwing whther any humans evolved into apes and pigs. GOD Bless!

Mazhar

Dear Explorer,

If you had read 265 alongwith 447 it would have been vividly clear what was said to them. "" had translated and explained it.

Wakas

peace brother Tanveer,

I just had to say, I really love the way you use Project Root List in discussions on understanding 'al quran'. Not only that, by referencing the source, it allows ANYONE to verify what is written, which I find revolutionary. This was the very reason the project was begun, thus I find it heartwarming seeing this take place.

Even though it is only about 2/3 done it already contains so much information. I urge everyone to take a look at it (and if possible, get involved!), it will enhance the quality of your studies immensely
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

siki

Wakas

You are proving to be a man with a difference. Your concentration on providing the tools , Rather than chit chatting on the forum, speaks very high of your maturity at this young age,and i am looking forward, living to the day when i see you evolving into a grand source of Devinne truth.

May God bless you for your efforts.

peace

siki

Wakas

peace siki,

Thank you for your kind words. I dont blush often (and being asian, its hard to tell even when I do) but I came close!

To be fair, it took me 3 years to come to the realisation I did about the way forward and I'm very happy with it now.

May God bless all our efforts.