Focal Point
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Peace,
Do you consider yourself and agnostic or atheist? Either way, it is clear that you don't consider yourself a "muslim" or "mu'min", i.e. one that believes that Al Quran was revealed from Allah and has faith in it.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15111.0
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Peace,
Quote
Do you consider yourself and agnostic or atheist? Either way, it is clear that you don't consider yourself a "muslim" or "mu'min", i.e. one that believes that Al Quran was revealed from Allah and has faith in it.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15111.0
As Salaamu Alaika DArgento,
I understand the point of that link, and agree or disagree is not the issue of my questioning. The point is clearly that for one to be even the description of what a "muslim" or "mu'min" is, according to Al Quran, one would still believe that Al Quran was revealed from Allah and have faith in it. Al Quran is the essence of repeating what the previous books contained, so those who believed in the previous books revealed by Allah, in essence by default believe in Al Quran as well; even though it was revealed after their time.
I think anyone who questions the existence of Allah and whether the Quran (or other revelations from Allah) is scripture from Him, would not qualify for either category of "muslim" or "mu'min" now or in the past. Unless I misunderstood her, that is what SwedenMajidah is saying about herself.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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^ I have to agree with that.
But the quran itself isn't tied to the name "muslim" (actually, the end concept of success in the afterlife) anywhere in the way that "muslim" needs belief in the quran.
I think anyone who questions the existence of Allah and whether the Quran (or other revelations from Allah) is scripture from Him, would not qualify for either category of "muslim" or "mu'min" now or in the past. Unless I misunderstood her, that is what SwedenMajidah is saying about herself.
Completely disagreed. I.e.
I think anyone who questions the existence of Allah and whether the Hadith (or other revelations from Allah) is scripture from Him, would not qualify for either category of "muslim" or "mu'min" now or in the past.
Abraham had no belief in anything called "The Quran". Indirectly, yes, he did but the quranic portrayal shows someone who just asked questions, got answers and got on with his life.
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^ I have to agree with that.
But the quran itself isn't tied to the name "muslim" (actually, the end concept of success in the afterlife) anywhere in the way that "muslim" needs belief in the quran.
To not believe in the books of Allah is called disbelief in Al Quran. One can not be a disbeliever and "muslim", whether it is a title or name. Belief in Quran is not the only criteria, but belief in the "signs (ayaat)" of Allah is mandatory. The Quran brings nothing new from the other books in its essence. So those who believed in the previous revealed messages qualify for belief in Al Quran.
Abraham had no belief in anything called "The Quran". Indirectly, yes, he did but the quranic portrayal shows someone who just asked questions, got answers and got on with his life.
The Quran is from the "mother of the book", i.e. the creational "ayaat" (signs). This is what the Quran indicates that Ibraheem studied to become "muslim". So when you say "INDIRECTLY", you are saying exactly what my point is!
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Peace IQO, OPF, all,
I think anyone who questions the existence of Allah and whether the Quran (or other revelations from Allah) is scripture from Him, would not qualify for either category of "muslim" or "mu'min" now or in the past
Perhaps it's semantics but what I'm getting from the above quote is akin to championing blind belief. To question the existence of Allah and the divinity of the quran is exactly what it takes, in my opinion, to solidify one's understanding. Without questioning we become reactionaries and, essentially, robotic recital machines.
Peace,
Tay -
As Salaamu Alaikum Tay and all,
Peace IQO, OPF, all,
Perhaps it's semantics but what I'm getting from the above quote is akin to championing blind belief. To question the existence of Allah and the divinity of the quran is exactly what it takes, in my opinion, to solidify one's understanding. Without questioning we become reactionaries and, essentially, robotic recital machines.
Peace,
TayI think blind belief would be accepting the book without studying it, as most sects do. But once one has come to study the book (Al Quran or other scriptures or creation itself, from Allah in the past), and thereafter reject them as being from Allah, then Allah says in Al Quran that they are in fact disbelievers. To question the existence of Allah is a normal natural state that is exemplied by the story of Ibraheem. But once he was presented with the "ayaat" of the scripture (the creation itself), he submitted and accepted their guidance as telling him to worship Allah alone and only; and thereby became "muslim".
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Peace IQO,
Agreed, thanks for clarifying.
peace
Alhamdulilaah!
peace
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Peace SwedenMajidah,
Do you consider yourself and agnostic or atheist? Either way, it is clear that you don't consider yourself a "muslim" or "mu'min", i.e. one that believes that Al Quran was revealed from Allah and has faith in it. I mean, how could you be when you don't even acknowledge the existence of Allah? That being said, I can only pray for you; although Im sure you don't think that that is necessary. Good luck.
As Salaamu alaikum, peace
Peace,
I don't consider myself as someone else than Maria. I don't want a label. Muslim, mumin, what is that if that not make me a better person!?
I believe that Muhammad and his visions that came in form of a scripture is a good reminder and advice for mankind but to uphold and follow every single word in this scripture and without questionate it will make me a blind follower of someone elses visions )Allah, God, A higher force, Universe what ever but it's not that force who controls us, we are a part of the Universe and we give and we take that's the true essence and that's how energy fields works.
Brother, please you don't have to pray for me, I'm totally fine and happy more than ever, so relax and I hope you will open up your minds more.
Maria
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15111.0
As Salaamu Alaika DArgento,
I understand the point of that link, and agree or disagree is not the issue of my questioning. The point is clearly that for one to be even the description of what a "muslim" or "mu'min" is, according to Al Quran, one would still believe that Al Quran was revealed from Allah and have faith in it. Al Quran is the essence of repeating what the previous books contained, so those who believed in the previous books revealed by Allah, in essence by default believe in Al Quran as well; even though it was revealed after their time.
I think anyone who questions the existence of Allah and whether the Quran (or other revelations from Allah) is scripture from Him, would not qualify for either category of "muslim" or "mu'min" now or in the past. Unless I misunderstood her, that is what SwedenMajidah is saying about herself. As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
My name is Maria, and yes I believe that Quran is the printed visions Muhammad got. And in the question of muslim and or mumin, i don't care what other people believe and as I said before, if muslim and mumin means that I must believe that Quran is from God and that God order us to obey him then I'm not a muslim or mumin.
Maria
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^ I have to agree with that.
But the quran itself isn't tied to the name "muslim" (actually, the end concept of success in the afterlife) anywhere in the way that "muslim" needs belief in the quran.
Completely disagreed. I.e.
Abraham had no belief in anything called "The Quran". Indirectly, yes, he did but the quranic portrayal shows someone who just asked questions, got answers and got on with his life.
Peace,
Yes, Abraham is a very good example and I have learnt alot of reading about him.Maria
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Peace IQO, OPF, all,
Perhaps it's semantics but what I'm getting from the above quote is akin to championing blind belief. To question the existence of Allah and the divinity of the quran is exactly what it takes, in my opinion, to solidify one's understanding. Without questioning we become reactionaries and, essentially, robotic recital machines.
Peace,
TayPeace,
Exactly very good point!
Questioning and not only take things for granted is important for all kind of enhancing.Maria
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As Salaamu Alaikum Tay and all,
I think blind belief would be accepting the book without studying it, as most sects do. But once one has come to study the book (Al Quran or other scriptures or creation itself, from Allah in the past), and thereafter reject them as being from Allah, then Allah says in Al Quran that they are in fact disbelievers. To question the existence of Allah is a normal natural state that is exemplied by the story of Ibraheem. But once he was presented with the "ayaat" of the scripture (the creation itself), he submitted and accepted their guidance as telling him to worship Allah alone and only; and thereby became "muslim".
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Peace,
So you are indirect pointing fingers at me and call me a disbeliever(kaffirun)?
Don't you know that accusing other people will lead to that you will be accused yourself, you beg for it yourself, i'm sorry to say it but that's true.I see myself as a believer in the world that I'm part of. I respect all living things, animals, bugs, flowers, trees, moon, sun,stars, planets, galaxies, Universe itself, well everything I accept because i'm part of it and we must co operate in a good way to live a healthy life in harmony.
People who see themselves as better than someone else is far away from the truth because how can they co-operate when they have this kind of beliefs?
Maria
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Peace SwedenMajidah,
You said enough in this post and the ones that follow it, so that anyone who believes that Al Quran is from Allah and that we should obey Him; what you have written is enough and I dont have to add to it!
My name is Maria, and yes I believe that Quran is the printed visions Muhammad got. And in the question of muslim and or mumin, i don't care what other people believe and as I said before, if muslim and mumin means that I must believe that Quran is from God and that God order us to obey him then I'm not a muslim or mumin.
Maria
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Peace SwedenMajidah,
If I call you anything, it is only because Allah in Al Quran has called people who say what you say those things. To me, I personally don't care. As you say, you are peaceful; so you are not bothering me and I am fine with whatever you choose to believe. My references to you are only for the purpose of this forum, not for life in general. To you be your way and to me mine. Nothing you have said about yourself and what you belief, has not Allah already addressed in Al Quran as part of a disbeliever in Him.
I just don't understand how you can be accepted as a moderator on this site to enforce the forum rules. That's like making a person who speeds in their car everyday and runs all the red lights, a traffic court judge. Doesn't add up!
Peace,
So you are indirect pointing fingers at me and call me a disbeliever(kaffirun)?
Don't you know that accusing other people will lead to that you will be accused yourself, you beg for it yourself, i'm sorry to say it but that's true.I see myself as a believer in the world that I'm part of. I respect all living things, animals, bugs, flowers, trees, moon, sun,stars, planets, galaxies, Universe itself, well everything I accept because i'm part of it and we must co operate in a good way to live a healthy life in harmony.
People who see themselves as better than someone else is far away from the truth because how can they co-operate when they have this kind of beliefs?
Maria
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Peace SwedenMajidah,
If I call you anything, it is only because Allah in Al Quran has called people who say what you say those things. To me, I personally don't care. As you say, you are peaceful; so you are not bothering me and I am fine with whatever you choose to believe. My references to you are only for the purpose of this forum, not for life in general. To you be your way and to me mine. Nothing you have said about yourself and what you belief, has not Allah already addressed in Al Quran as part of a disbeliever in Him.
I just don't understand how you can be accepted as a moderator on this site to enforce the forum rules. That's like making a person who speeds in their car everyday and runs all the red lights, a traffic court judge. Doesn't add up!
Peace,
For the first thing, I'm not a moderator and I have never wanted to be a moderator. I just mention that I am one of the first members in this forum, but according my profile it looks like i haven't been a member that long but I have another member name before i took this swedenmajidah.
I must say you sound too much sunni, are you sure you have come to right forum?
Allah Allah Allah says that and that it's all you can say, but do you know Allah? have you seen him?
Why is it so hard to understand that Allah is a energy force just like we are, around our body we have a thick energy field and our body is just carry around our soul.
When Quran says obey Allah it means that we shall obey that we get in return from him because remember we have asked for it and then we get it in return. and to have belief in Allah(the higher force) is ofcourse neccessary how else then could I turn to that force and wish and beg for things!?
That who differ us is that you see Allah as some egoistic God who only put rewards and punishments were he feels like. but the fact is Allah doesn't need anything from us. We turn to him to get what we wish for in a more powerful return. And if you wish and longing for things that harm you, then it's your own fault, Allah just give what you have begged for.
And an advice from me is that Quran shouldn't be taken to the fulliest to the letters, much of it is written between the lines and are allegorical. But it seems that too many muslims take it by the letter and therefore they cannot grasp the truth.
Maria
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Peace sis "majidah",
And an advice from me is that Quran shouldn't be taken to the fulliest to the letters, much of it is written between the lines and are allegorical. But it seems that too many muslims take it by the letter and therefore they cannot grasp the truth.
JK- Sure there are allegories in the Quran but i dont really understand what people mean when they say "dont take it down to every letter". IMHO ofcourse the analysis of the terms used the Quran and the grammatical construct is vital in order to understand what message it actually conveys. It woudlnt make much sense otherwise. What the sectarians are wrong at THAT THEY USE HADITH i.e. BIBLICAL INDUCED interpretations of a significantly large number of terms used in the Quran. They think they are the ones whor literally following the Quran. Well guess what, THEY ARE NOT. Tough AINT IT YOU SUNNI/SHIA MULLAHs? But you aint following the Quran literally at all. Your biased, your understanding of Quran is corrupt. You dont know the proper scientific method which applies to everything including the study and interpretation of langauges. Your level of progress is zero and yet you fascists wanna enforce your BS upon everyone else. I really blame them primarily for others to even think that they are the ones who interpret the Quran literally whilst theyr not. Take a look at independent researchers like bros Edip, Arnold Yasin, Shabbir Ahmed, Ghulam Pervez etc. they come close to a LITERAL interpretaion of the Quran and it marvelously makes perfect sense. GOD Bless!
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Peace SwedenMajidah,
Im glad you cleared up for me that you are NOT a moderator. I feel much better now. I am sure there are moderators who have viewpoints on Al Quran that I don't agree with, but I can accept that. But to have one that is agnostic or athesist would be beyond my acceptance. So we are good there so to speak.
BTW, Im not sunni; no matter how much you want me to be! nope
Yes, I know Allah; just as He wants me to know Him, through His attributes and what He reveals in scripture. I don't expect to see Him since He is above what we know as "vision"; maybe you have missed that point and are disturbed that you can't see Him. (Maybe you feel more comfortable seeing your "energy fields"
I have no problem understanding about Allah what I need to from Al Quran and His ayaat in creation. On the other hand, it seems that it is you that are frustrated that others have "faith" in something that you can't seem to comprehend. It is not our faulth that you have not been guided yet. Try not to be so sure about what you think you know and maybe Allah will guide you one day; cause we can't help you.
With your understanding of Al Quran and Allah, I don't think that anyone who has faith in it will be taking any advice from you on how we should follow it. nope
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Peace,
For the first thing, I'm not a moderator and I have never wanted to be a moderator. I just mention that I am one of the first members in this forum, but according my profile it looks like i haven't been a member that long but I have another member name before i took this swedenmajidah.
I must say you sound too much sunni, are you sure you have come to right forum?
Allah Allah Allah says that and that it's all you can say, but do you know Allah? have you seen him?
Why is it so hard to understand that Allah is a energy force just like we are, around our body we have a thick energy field and our body is just carry around our soul.
When Quran says obey Allah it means that we shall obey that we get in return from him because remember we have asked for it and then we get it in return. and to have belief in Allah(the higher force) is ofcourse neccessary how else then could I turn to that force and wish and beg for things!?
That who differ us is that you see Allah as some egoistic God who only put rewards and punishments were he feels like. but the fact is Allah doesn't need anything from us. We turn to him to get what we wish for in a more powerful return. And if you wish and longing for things that harm you, then it's your own fault, Allah just give what you have begged for.
And an advice from me is that Quran shouldn't be taken to the fulliest to the letters, much of it is written between the lines and are allegorical. But it seems that too many muslims take it by the letter and therefore they cannot grasp the truth.
Maria
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Peace SwedenMajidah,
Im glad you cleared up for me that you are NOT a moderator. I feel much better now. I am sure there are moderators who have viewpoints on Al Quran that I don't agree with, but I can accept that. But to have one that is agnostic or athesist would be beyond my acceptance. So we are good there so to speak.
BTW, Im not sunni; no matter how much you want me to be! nope
Yes, I know Allah; just as He wants me to know Him, through His attributes and what He reveals in scripture. I don't expect to see Him since He is above what we know as "vision"; maybe you have missed that point and are disturbed that you can't see Him. (Maybe you feel more comfortable seeing your "energy fields"
Peace,
Energy field are felt you don't see them, I just comment upon "have you seen Allah" because it seems that you don't know who he is.
Ok, you don't understand my view, well it's not so strange because I can bet on that you have never heard of "The Secret" !?
If you have bother yourself to read that book maybe you have understand my way, but of course it doesn't have to mean that you would accept that way but that is totally a different thing. We all follow what we feel is right in our heart. There is no cumpulsion even not in Islam.
Author Rhonda Byrne Title The Secret
Maria
I have no problem understanding about Allah what I need to from Al Quran and His ayaat in creation. On the other hand, it seems that it is you that are frustrated that others have "faith" in something that you can't seem to comprehend. It is not our faulth that you have not been guided yet. Try not to be so sure about what you think you know and maybe Allah will guide you one day; cause we can't help you.
With your understanding of Al Quran and Allah, I don't think that anyone who has faith in it will be taking any advice from you on how we should follow it. nope
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Peace,
I guess to your surprise and incorrect assumptions, I know all about the secret and have read the book. I understand what you believe and the law of attraction. I also know what is Shirk. But like you said, their is no compulsion to accept Al Islam.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Peace,
Energy field are felt you don't see them, I just comment upon "have you seen Allah" because it seems that you don't know who he is.
Ok, you don't understand my view, well it's not so strange because I can bet on that you have never heard of "The Secret" !?
If you have bother yourself to read that book maybe you have understand my way, but of course it doesn't have to mean that you would accept that way but that is totally a different thing. We all follow what we feel is right in our heart. There is no cumpulsion even not in Islam.
Author Rhonda Byrne Title The Secret
Maria