Hell
-
You missed the point Genteel. It?s not about me or you or the child. It's about the warnings. That fact is there is no harm in warnings. Harshness or gentle warnings are still warnings.
I didn't miss your point, SHM. I asked you couple of questions in response to your statements made which you did not answer. To tell someone or warn someone, is obviously not torture. How one handles the situation after the fact that your "telling" falls on deaf ears, is what I am interested in, as in the example of child you presented.is it torture CosmicDancer to tell your child that he/she will feel constant pain if he/she does drugs? or if he cuts her/himself? is it torture to warning your child of the horrors of situation or place? be logical.
-
a question to Cosmic Dancer and Gentel,
Since you degree that hell as punishment seem illogical, what should be the punishment for torturing people if someone is guilty of torturing people themselves?
-
SHM, you've yet to answer the very pertinent and extremely important questions requested of you which you seem to dodge around for the third time. Why?
-
SHM, you've yet to answer the very pertinent and extremely important questions requested of you which you seem to dodge around for the third time. Why?
I didn't answer because the question doesn't make seem. i use an analogy about warnings not being torture nor being mean but actually testifies to mercy and kindness (since one is warning and not concealing info that can potential have a person life). You asked "How one handles the situation after the fact that your "telling" falls on deaf ears, is what I am interested in, as in the example of child you presented"
do you mean literally or symbolically? because literally, if i warn a child about putting its hand in fire, and it still puts it hand in the fire, unfortunately, the child gets burn. same for a adult, or an older person. the consequence remains the same. the person was simply warn of it. however, i dont see the "very pertinent and extremely important (ance)" in that. it testify to my point actually, the hell is ultimate accountability and consequence.
Why will GOD warns humans of consequences/hell, yet never delivers that consequence and justice as if the it doesnt even exist? Is GOD lying? Is he simply trying to deceive us with warning so we can do good, yet such warning a hollow and with no real consequences? And if that is so, technically there is no such thing as good or evil since all actions will never produce benefit or harm (nor righteous or wrong)? Is that logical? No.
Now if you can't answer my question, it okay, because the point I was trying to make to you (and CosmiDancer) is....you cannot determine absolute fair andn just, yet criticize with presenting a logical answer or alternative.
-
SHM, telling or warning about any wrongdoing to anyone is common sense and wise. I've no problem there but you keep regurgitating the same. There's a point of responsibility that one must take in order to curb or eliminate the wrongdoing. If a person continues to dwell in wrongdoings and does not listen, then there are consequences ofcourse. The consequences can be dreadful upon themselves or can be intervened as a punishment to stop it. There are rules and conditions of punishment and can be reasonably harsh but exercised in an ethical and logical manner. Do you agree thus far?
-
Bump! /SHM.
-
is this thread still going.
Have you seen the video of Prince Charles I posted in the General Forum?
If you look carefully you will spot me... LOL...
D
-
is this thread still going.
It's the Duracell.Have you seen the video of Prince Charles I posted in the General Forum?
If you look carefully you will spot me... LOL...
Are you by any chance one of the gentlemen in glasses in their late 40's perhaps? -
It's the Duracell. )
Are you by any chance one of the gentlemen in glasses in their late 40's perhaps?No glassess.
Waist coat and tie short beard - introducing kids - it's my classroom lol
-
It's the Duracell.
Are you by any chance one of the gentlemen in glasses in their late 40's perhaps?the guy in glasses and long jacket is Yusuf Islam fgs (Cat Stevens lol)
-
No glassess.
Waist coat and tie short beard - introducing kids - it's my classroom lol
Cool!"Yusuf Islam" is what I initially had in mind. Sorry mate, I was deceived. But what the heck are you doing with your classroom if I may ask;....... evolving or revolving the innocent. )
-
Cool!
"Yusuf Islam" is what I initially had in mind. Sorry mate, I was deceived. But what the heck are you doing with your classroom if I may ask;....... evolving or revolving the innocent. )
That was back in 2000 - before I lost my faith.
-
nods this is something i struggle with, as well. if God is Al-Rahman and Al-Rahim, how can there be a hell? and if God is Al-Ghafur, why the eternal punishment?
and again, if God guides and leads astray those who He wills, is it the faults of those who can not believe? at the same time, there are many places in the Quran where non-believers are heard to say things like "if God had willed us to believe, we would believe", and these arguments are then rejected.
-
I suspect this will also be a very controversial issue.
I have never been able to accept the idea of a Mercifil and Compassionate God torturing his creation because they didn't believe.
The Qur'an is quite graphic - for example
As for those who reject Our Signs, We will roast them in a Fire. Every time their skins are burned off, We will replace them with new skins so that they can taste the punishment. Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. (456)
"These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!" (2219-22)
I'm still not entirely sure what you guys believe about the traditional view of Hell in Islam - but I suspect (going on past experience) that you may have a very different interpretation and I would be interested to hear it.
)
Salaam Cosmicdancer,
God forgives minor sins and the only sin which is unforgivable is idolworship. Put it this way, God created Seven Universes and earth, He created you and established you on earth, if you then go away and worship your ego, money, property or devil then only you are to be blamed, for this you will be put in Hell, a just retribution for what you did..
I am not implying "You" as you above it is just an example..
Regards
Ijaz
-
.....The consequences can be dreadful upon themselves or can be intervened as a punishment to stop it. There are rules and conditions of punishment and can be reasonably harsh but exercised in an ethical and logical manner. Do you agree thus far?
yes. but this is all base on your (our) interpretation on what is hards and ethical. that is my point. you (we) are making judge on what is "ethical" base on your (our) limit knowledge and basis. to humans, eternal seem harsh, to human hell seems harsh etc.
that is my point.