Hell
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Even if it is a "Mathal" - it still means painful torture for the unbeliever - or it is not a "Mathal" is it?
The descriptions there are. What if I said "the pain was as if I was being branded by a hot iron", does that mean I am such?
As for disbelievers vs believers, see things like 292, 3184, 532, so on. Clear signs/arguments are presented. Rejecting the Quran does not only include rejecting the God. As in 532, killing a human being is also rejecting. Then, you have your actual answer in 1047 - they will all be judged justly. Now, if you accept the existance of God, then you must accept God's infinite wisdom which is self-eviden around us, surely the creator knows how to judge his creation? We are nothing but very, very complex supercomputers, keep that in mind. So the creator of us will easily know exactly what is in our hearts and minds. A programmer can take a debugger to his program and see exactly the program's intentions and deeds at any point in time, so why is this impossible for God?
And you think they deserve to be tortured for being confused and misguided?
If you created mankind and guided some and misguided others, would you lavish punishment on those who YOU misguided? Please use your common sense.
When one says heaven and hells are metaphoric and allegorical ,it means they do not exist tangibly.
I sincerely believe your reading comprehension skills get in the way of understanding and working towards the truth. At first it was a joke, but PLEASE, purchase a dictionary or other learning materials. Thanks to Navid for clearing that up )
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I sincerely believe your reading comprehension skills get in the way of understanding and working towards the truth.
Perhaps Heaven is only for those with good reading comprehension skills.
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Perhaps Heaven is only for those with good reading comprehension skills.
Is falsely accusing someone because you didn't pay attention a good thing then?
It wasn't directed at you in any case )
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God is not comparable to humans who can do nothing about the way the world works.
God can not only do something - but more importantly ? He is the one who made the rules.
So when one gets burnt in Hell - it is God who is doing it - you can't say, oh well it's just a consiquence of their own choice to disbelieve.
It is God who decided that disbelief results in torture.
To say that it is GOD fault for creating Hell and Heaven is like say it is GOD fault for creating hot and cold, high and low, close far, good evil, love and hate etc. This is an illogical and has no purpose. God create pairs of everything to assist us with or decisions (5149).
The argument that ?GOD created this and therefore He can make it this way or that way? is illogical because it has purpose. What you desire is a world without purpose and logic to it, where evil receives the same rewards as righteousness. Or righteousness get punish in the same way as evil. This is illogical and you know that.
But I finally understand your true issue. The issue you have is not really with Hell and ?torture?, but applying it as a punishment to one how disbelieve in GOD. And the real reason you have issues with this is because you have misconception on what belief and disbelief is. No one is put in Hell simply because they disbelieve, it is the deeds from that disbelief that are the consequence of Hell .
Like I said earlier, the concept of belief in the Quran and any other scripture is not the simply concept of having any cognitive content held as true. It is actions base on that belief, your deeds.
For example, if I believe fire is cool and safe, I will act on that belief and put my hand in it. After I get 3rd degree burns, my belief will change with regards to fire being safe and cool. However, I got burnt only because I acted on that belief. GOD makes this VERY CLEAR in the Quran
42 30
Anything bad that happens to you is a consequence of your own deeds, and He overlooks many (of your sins).?Anything bad that happens to you? means you deeds has consequences (including Hell), not just our ?belief? or ?disbelief.?
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Deeds follow belief.
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If you created mankind and guided some and misguided others, would you lavish punishment on those who YOU misguided? Please use your common sense.
Obviously not, but using the very common sense you speak of, the "god" of religion does and unambigiously clear as per the Quran. This begs the question whether a fathomless supernatural "god" had any sense or this "god" was never as such to begin with? The effects and after-effects of believing in such as god to live a righteous life becomes injurious to self esteem by malicious and deceptive claims and fear enthralled. Righteousness is independent of such ficticious beliefs and the reality speaks of it lucidly.Peace!
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Obviously not, but using the very common sense you speak of, the "god" of religion does and unambigiously clear as per the Quran. This begs the question whether a fathomless supernatural "god" had any sense or this "god" was never as such to begin with? The effects and after-effects of believing in such as god to live a righteous life becomes injurious to self esteem by malicious and deceptive claims and fear enthralled. Righteousness is independent of such ficticious beliefs and the reality speaks of it lucidly.
Peace!
Provide references. They are fairly judged according to personal responsibility (3722-40).
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peace
just wanny ask,
why do you focus on hell and punishing? you think God does it for fun or something?why don't you start a topic called heaven
and ask, why is God rewarding people? why should people be in bliss for ETERNITY? what did we do so good?remember, in quran, it's mentioned more times that God forgives then punishes
so these people in hell apparently deserve it
look at the world, God is letting evil exist and corrupted people who cause chaos, it's not like they can't stop or learn,
we are all given a chance, we are all warned, people don't have to do bad things, nobody's forcing them,
so some people deserve to go to hellGod is just
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No one is put in Hell simply because they disbelieve, it is the deeds from that disbelief that are the consequence of Hell
Are you saying that so long as you are good - you will not go to hell, regardless of whether you disbelieve in God?
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why don't you start a topic called heaven
and ask, why is God rewarding people? why should people be in bliss for ETERNITY? what did we do so good?Indeed ComicDancer, why only focus on hell?
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Are you saying that so long as you are good - you will not go to hell, regardless of whether you disbelieve in God?
Not quite.
Like I said before, deeds follow belief. A man who disbelieve in GOD existence can indeed do good and be rewarded for it (440, 997, 1010, just like a idol worshiper or sinner can indeed do good (1715). But that individual's disbelief will produce deeds he or she will ultimately be accountable for (4230). SO to say "so long as you are good - you will not go to hell, regardless of whether you disbelieve in God" is to assume the disblieve in GOD doesnt have it own consequence (as regards to your deeds).
Do you understand?
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They are fairly judged according to personal responsibility (3722-40).
Provide verification and evidence? -
peace
I think that if god is merciful, god cannot put anyone in hell for eternity (taking eternity to mean "forever". That is an obvious contradiction.
God doesn't punish us. (I think we have to redefine what the quran means by "god".
Our actions have consequences. Good deeds lead to good, bad results in bad. That's how it goes. -
I think that if god is merciful, god cannot put anyone in hell for eternity (taking eternity to mean "forever".
With all fairness, this belief seem irrational. Because even HUMANS put people in jail for their ENTIRE lifetime for crimes. IF we can apply that judgment on ourselves with our limited knowledge and understanding of the reality of life, don't you think that GOD, a being claiming to knows all things and have ultimate wisdom, cannot justify eternal adobe in hell?
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peace
I think that if god is merciful, god cannot put anyone in hell for eternity (taking eternity to mean "forever". That is an obvious contradiction.God is Merciful. He only puts us where we ask to go. No contradiction there. Now eternity or forever, I don't know about that.
Peace
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Good deeds lead to good, bad results in bad. That's how it goes.
Yep, that's the simplist definition of righteousness dictated by circumstance and nature (reality as witnessed), not by some megalomanic and ruthless fathomless dictator of "holy books". The word "most", as in Most Merciful and Most Gracious does not carry the connotation of being One and Only, and explicitly defies the very notion of an unperceivable yet impressionable BEING, which becomes nonsensical and insignificant. The word "most" conveys the impression of "out of many". A cosmological self-proclaimed One and Only Creator of the entire Universe (whoever or whatever that may be) cannot possibly be "out of many". This is plainly absurd, a delusional state of mind and has entrapped billions. In ancient settings, each community revered many gods and their Chief (polytheists) and some abandoned their gods to revere only their Chief (monotheists), yet many became gods themselves. Throughout generations and uptill today we see the same reflections but with modified versions. Certainly, the minds are made up for the wrong reasons. -
Indeed ComicDancer, why only focus on hell?
I agree - why reward someone for simply believing?
But I have less trouble believing in a God that is Merciful, Rewarding and Generous - for no reason.
Than a God that is cruel, vindictive and sadistic for no reason.
Crazy I know - but hey! That's me.
I'm just a crazy kinda guy.
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SO to say "so long as you are good - you will not go to hell, regardless of whether you disbelieve in God" is to assume the disblieve in GOD doesnt have it own consequence (as regards to your deeds).
Do you understand?
Hmmm... not sure SatanHatesMe.
Are you are saying if you don't believe in God you will end up doing bad things?
Or are you just saying that all our actions have consiquences? - If so then it doesn't matter if you believe or not does it?
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peace
I think that if god is merciful, god cannot put anyone in hell for eternity (taking eternity to mean "forever". That is an obvious contradiction.
God doesn't punish us. (I think we have to redefine what the quran means by "god".
Our actions have consequences. Good deeds lead to good, bad results in bad. That's how it goes.Well said.
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With all fairness, this belief seem irrational. Because even HUMANS put people in jail for their ENTIRE lifetime for crimes. IF we can apply that judgment on ourselves with our limited knowledge and understanding of the reality of life, don't you think that GOD, a being claiming to knows all things and have ultimate wisdom, cannot justify eternal adobe in hell?
We put Murderers in prison for life.
We don't put people in prison for choosing what they want to believe.
Nor do we torture them in prison.