Hell
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SO to say "so long as you are good - you will not go to hell, regardless of whether you disbelieve in God" is to assume the disblieve in GOD doesnt have it own consequence (as regards to your deeds).
Do you understand?
Hmmm... not sure SatanHatesMe.
Are you are saying if you don't believe in God you will end up doing bad things?
Or are you just saying that all our actions have consiquences? - If so then it doesn't matter if you believe or not does it?
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peace
I think that if god is merciful, god cannot put anyone in hell for eternity (taking eternity to mean "forever". That is an obvious contradiction.
God doesn't punish us. (I think we have to redefine what the quran means by "god".
Our actions have consequences. Good deeds lead to good, bad results in bad. That's how it goes.Well said.
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With all fairness, this belief seem irrational. Because even HUMANS put people in jail for their ENTIRE lifetime for crimes. IF we can apply that judgment on ourselves with our limited knowledge and understanding of the reality of life, don't you think that GOD, a being claiming to knows all things and have ultimate wisdom, cannot justify eternal adobe in hell?
We put Murderers in prison for life.
We don't put people in prison for choosing what they want to believe.
Nor do we torture them in prison.
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He only puts us where we ask to go.
Dear God, I don't know if you exist or not and I don't know which religion is your favourite - but if you can hear me, could you please put me in Heaven.
Thanks.
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Dear God, I don't know if you exist or not and I don't know which religion is your favourite
Not trying to speak for God here, but we all have our own idea(s) of God, And I don't believe that God favors a religion above another. You don't have to believe in a 'religion' to go to 'heaven'. What God favors is in our hearts and our minds and how we live our lives, and how we treat others, and how we make the world better. The good naturally leads to good and evil leads to evil.
Cause and effect
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Merovingian Hmph... I am a trafficker of information, I know everything I can. The question is, do you know why you are here?
Morpheus We are looking for the Keymaker.
Merovingian Oh yes, it is true. The Keymaker, of course. But this is not a reason, this is not a `why.' The Keymaker himself, his very nature, is means, it is not an end, and so, to look for him is to be looking for a means to do... what?
Neo You know the answer to that question.
Merovingian But do you? You think you do but you do not. You are here because you were sent here, you were told to come here and you obeyed. It is, of course, the way of all things. You see, there is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect.
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Not trying to speak for God here, but we all have our own idea(s) of God, And I don't believe that God favors a religion above another. You don't have to believe in a 'religion' to go to 'heaven'. What God favors is in our hearts and our minds and how we live our lives, and how we treat others, and how we make the world better. The good naturally leads to good and evil leads to evil.
Cause and effect
Bingo - you win!
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Merovingian Hmph... I am a trafficker of information, I know everything I can. The question is, do you know why you are here?
Morpheus We are looking for the Keymaker.
Merovingian Oh yes, it is true. The Keymaker, of course. But this is not a reason, this is not a `why.' The Keymaker himself, his very nature, is means, it is not an end, and so, to look for him is to be looking for a means to do... what?
Neo You know the answer to that question.
Merovingian But do you? You think you do but you do not. You are here because you were sent here, you were told to come here and you obeyed. It is, of course, the way of all things. You see, there is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect.
Look!... Just give me the bloody key before I floor you!
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Merovingian The Keymaker is mine and I see no reason why I should give him up. No reason at all.
Persephone Where are you going?
Merovingian Please, ma cherie, I've told you, we are all victims of causality. I drink too much wine, I must take a piss. Cause and effect. Au revoir.
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Merovingian The Keymaker is mine and I see no reason why I should give him up. No reason at all.
Persephone Where are you going?
Merovingian Please, ma cherie, I've told you, we are all victims of causality. I drink too much wine, I must take a piss. Cause and effect. Au revoir.
(Merovingian exits)
Cosmicdancer Ah, whats this? He left his coat. Hmmm... (Searches coat) Got it! The key! At last Muwahahahaha! (evil laugh) That'll teach that piss artist to drink too much wine... (Exits...)
D
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peace cosmicdancer
i believe teh quran does say that any one who does good can go to heaven
1026 For those who persevere in doing good there is the ultimate good in store, and more . No darkness and no ignominy will overshadow their faces it is they who are destined for paradise, therein to abide.
1323 Gardens of perpetual bliss they shall enter there, as well as the GOOD DOERS among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring and angels shall enter unto them from every gate (with the salutation)
also remember a kaffir is not just someone who does not believe ingod
3647 Thus, when they are told, ?Spend on others out of what God has provided for you as sus?tenance,? those who are bent on denying the truth say unto those who believe, ?Shall we feed anyone whom, if God had so willed, He could have fed ? Clearly, you are but lost in error!?
if you take kaffir in this verse to mean anyone who dosent believe in god it can be disproved very easily.
it says no kuffar help the needy, since some people who dont believe in god give to the poor kaffir must mean something elsealso look at the meaning of the word kfr, in arabic their is a word for infidel (ج and atheist (د and it isnt kfr
maybe this verse can help on the meaning of kafir
3132 When a wave covers them like the canopy (of clouds), they call to Allah, offering Him sincere devotion. But when He has delivered them safely to land, there are among them those that halt between (right and wrong). But none reject Our Signs except only a perfidious ungrateful (kafur)!it says that people that halt between right and wrong arnt the kaffir but the ungrateful(kafur) are, right and wrong seem to be the main point
remember one sign is treating your spouse nicely
3021 And among His signs is this He creates for you mates out of your own kind. so that you might incline towards them, and He engenders love and tenderness between you in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think!
so some who say they dont believe in god, if they treat their spouse nicely, are following a sign of god and not even know it)it seems to mean more about being thankful for what you have(in the tibetian buddhism description of hell people are very greedy and hungry but their necks are as wide as a pen and they cant swallow anything they aquire) if you are thankful for what you have you wont steal, lie, murder, abuse family, because you are happy with what you have
one thing i can add about how fire suffering is a mithal(similie) and not actually mean physcial fire, i think is explained well by the buddha
"The Buddha-Tathagatas are not eternally extinguished in Nirvana like the heat of an iron ball that is quickly extinguished when cast into water. Moreover, it is thus just as the heat of an iron ball is extinguished when thrown into water, the Tathagata is likewise; when the immeasurable mental afflictions have been extinguished, it is similar to when an iron ball is cast into water - although the heat is extinguished, the substance / nature of the iron remains. In that way, when the Tathagata has completely extinguished the fire of the mental afflictions that have been accumulated over countless aeons, the nature of the diamond Tathagata permanently endures - not transforming and not diminishing."
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Hmmm... not sure SatanHatesMe.
Are you are saying if you don't believe in God you will end up doing bad things?
Or are you just saying that all our actions have consiquences? - If so then it doesn't matter if you believe or not does it?
I don't want to go in circles. deeds follows belief.
If you don't believe in God you will act upon that belief which has it consequences.
all belief produce deeds/actions that have consequences. So then it matters if you believe or not because you belief direct your deeds.For example, you Comic Dancer don't believe GOD exist, therefore you reject, ask questions, debate, argue, post threads about Hell, and other activities of your daily life on that belief.
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Remember, it's not illegal if you don't get caught.
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We put Murderers in prison for life.
We don't put people in prison for choosing what they want to believe.
Nor do we torture them in prison.
wrong.
We but murders in jail especially those you should no remorse and believe they did the right thing.
We put child molesters in jail because their belief and acting upon it.
we put rapist in jail because of their belief adn the deeds that stem from it. etc etc.
Shoot, the US detains Arabs Muslims base on their beliefs (thinking it link to Terrorism).There many many people you are in jail simply on belief. African American slavery in the past was base on the "belief" that white people were superior to black people and white people kill and enlave black people on that "belief".
Like I said, you canNOT disproof this, but all deeds are base on belief.
In the Quran is it very clear, you belief produce deeds you will be accountable for (3044)
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Thamoud's disbelief caused them to transgress. -
I don't want to go in circles. deeds follows belief.
If you don't believe in God you will act upon that belief which has it consequences.
all belief produce deeds/actions that have consequences. So then it matters if you believe or not because you belief direct your deeds.For example, you Comic Dancer don't believe GOD exist, therefore you reject, ask questions, debate, argue, post threads about Hell, and other activities of your daily life on that belief.
My nick is cosmicdancer. Not Comic Dancer.
Does your belief in God teach you to mock people's name?
Is that what you mean by your beliefs moving your actions?
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wrong.
We but murders in jail especially those you should no remorse and believe they did the right thing.
We put child molesters in jail because their belief and acting upon it.
we put rapist in jail because of their belief adn the deeds that stem from it. etc etc.
Shoot, the US detains Arabs Muslims base on their beliefs (thinking it link to Terrorism).There many many people you are in jail simply on belief. African American slavery in the past was base on the "belief" that white people were superior to black people and white people kill and enlave black people on that "belief".
Like I said, you canNOT disproof this, but all deeds are base on belief.
In the Quran is it very clear, you belief produce deeds you will be accountable for (3044)
91 11
Thamoud's disbelief caused them to transgress.We put a rapist in jail because he rapes.
You believe that not believing in God will make you become bad. But that is simply your subjective opinion.
My subjective opinion is different. I see many people who believe in God can't tell the difference between right and wrong. While many who do not believe in God (or who are agnostics like me) are good, law-abiding, and decent people.
)
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My nick is cosmicdancer. Not Comic Dancer.
Does your belief in God teach you to mock people's name?Sorry. That was a typo i was unaware of. I dont want you mock you nickname. Sorry again.
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You believe that not believing in God will make you become bad. But that is simply your subjective opinion.
i dont believe that. I believe the deeds FOLLOW belief and that everyone on earth act according to their beliefs. Believing in GOD or not, those belief is the foundation of your deeds. If a person disblieve in GOD, it will reflect in his deeds period.
Cosmicdancer, i think this is a sensitive issue for you because you yourself disbelieve in GOD and have hope and wishful think that even your disbelief will still give you a chance to enter Paradise if you did good deeds. Because, even agnostics believe the they cannot prove NOR DISPROVE GOD existence. So they just HOPE.
.....I see many people who believe in God can't tell the difference between right and wrong. While many who do not believe in God (or who are agnostics like me) are good, law-abiding, and decent people.
I can say they opposite.... I see people who claim to be agnostics act with awareness of GOD (or greater power) and people you of claim to believe in GOD act with complete unawareness of GOD. Either way, the belief guides their action and deeds. And there deeds shows show us there true belief.
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Peace Aaron
Not everyone studies it deeply, like myself, but when I'm interested I shall delve here and there to seek such things. But yea, you're right, sometimes a word from another language cannot be translated with one word to another language. Like Rabb, which has so many other significant meanings when you look into it.
Jor