Hell
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peace cosmicdancer
i believe teh quran does say that any one who does good can go to heaven
1026 For those who persevere in doing good there is the ultimate good in store, and more . No darkness and no ignominy will overshadow their faces it is they who are destined for paradise, therein to abide.
1323 Gardens of perpetual bliss they shall enter there, as well as the GOOD DOERS among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring and angels shall enter unto them from every gate (with the salutation)
also remember a kaffir is not just someone who does not believe ingod
3647 Thus, when they are told, ?Spend on others out of what God has provided for you as sus?tenance,? those who are bent on denying the truth say unto those who believe, ?Shall we feed anyone whom, if God had so willed, He could have fed ? Clearly, you are but lost in error!?
if you take kaffir in this verse to mean anyone who dosent believe in god it can be disproved very easily.
it says no kuffar help the needy, since some people who dont believe in god give to the poor kaffir must mean something elsealso look at the meaning of the word kfr, in arabic their is a word for infidel (ج and atheist (د and it isnt kfr
maybe this verse can help on the meaning of kafir
3132 When a wave covers them like the canopy (of clouds), they call to Allah, offering Him sincere devotion. But when He has delivered them safely to land, there are among them those that halt between (right and wrong). But none reject Our Signs except only a perfidious ungrateful (kafur)!it says that people that halt between right and wrong arnt the kaffir but the ungrateful(kafur) are, right and wrong seem to be the main point
remember one sign is treating your spouse nicely
3021 And among His signs is this He creates for you mates out of your own kind. so that you might incline towards them, and He engenders love and tenderness between you in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think!
so some who say they dont believe in god, if they treat their spouse nicely, are following a sign of god and not even know it)it seems to mean more about being thankful for what you have(in the tibetian buddhism description of hell people are very greedy and hungry but their necks are as wide as a pen and they cant swallow anything they aquire) if you are thankful for what you have you wont steal, lie, murder, abuse family, because you are happy with what you have
one thing i can add about how fire suffering is a mithal(similie) and not actually mean physcial fire, i think is explained well by the buddha
"The Buddha-Tathagatas are not eternally extinguished in Nirvana like the heat of an iron ball that is quickly extinguished when cast into water. Moreover, it is thus just as the heat of an iron ball is extinguished when thrown into water, the Tathagata is likewise; when the immeasurable mental afflictions have been extinguished, it is similar to when an iron ball is cast into water - although the heat is extinguished, the substance / nature of the iron remains. In that way, when the Tathagata has completely extinguished the fire of the mental afflictions that have been accumulated over countless aeons, the nature of the diamond Tathagata permanently endures - not transforming and not diminishing."
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Hmmm... not sure SatanHatesMe.
Are you are saying if you don't believe in God you will end up doing bad things?
Or are you just saying that all our actions have consiquences? - If so then it doesn't matter if you believe or not does it?
I don't want to go in circles. deeds follows belief.
If you don't believe in God you will act upon that belief which has it consequences.
all belief produce deeds/actions that have consequences. So then it matters if you believe or not because you belief direct your deeds.For example, you Comic Dancer don't believe GOD exist, therefore you reject, ask questions, debate, argue, post threads about Hell, and other activities of your daily life on that belief.
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Remember, it's not illegal if you don't get caught.
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We put Murderers in prison for life.
We don't put people in prison for choosing what they want to believe.
Nor do we torture them in prison.
wrong.
We but murders in jail especially those you should no remorse and believe they did the right thing.
We put child molesters in jail because their belief and acting upon it.
we put rapist in jail because of their belief adn the deeds that stem from it. etc etc.
Shoot, the US detains Arabs Muslims base on their beliefs (thinking it link to Terrorism).There many many people you are in jail simply on belief. African American slavery in the past was base on the "belief" that white people were superior to black people and white people kill and enlave black people on that "belief".
Like I said, you canNOT disproof this, but all deeds are base on belief.
In the Quran is it very clear, you belief produce deeds you will be accountable for (3044)
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Thamoud's disbelief caused them to transgress. -
I don't want to go in circles. deeds follows belief.
If you don't believe in God you will act upon that belief which has it consequences.
all belief produce deeds/actions that have consequences. So then it matters if you believe or not because you belief direct your deeds.For example, you Comic Dancer don't believe GOD exist, therefore you reject, ask questions, debate, argue, post threads about Hell, and other activities of your daily life on that belief.
My nick is cosmicdancer. Not Comic Dancer.
Does your belief in God teach you to mock people's name?
Is that what you mean by your beliefs moving your actions?
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wrong.
We but murders in jail especially those you should no remorse and believe they did the right thing.
We put child molesters in jail because their belief and acting upon it.
we put rapist in jail because of their belief adn the deeds that stem from it. etc etc.
Shoot, the US detains Arabs Muslims base on their beliefs (thinking it link to Terrorism).There many many people you are in jail simply on belief. African American slavery in the past was base on the "belief" that white people were superior to black people and white people kill and enlave black people on that "belief".
Like I said, you canNOT disproof this, but all deeds are base on belief.
In the Quran is it very clear, you belief produce deeds you will be accountable for (3044)
91 11
Thamoud's disbelief caused them to transgress.We put a rapist in jail because he rapes.
You believe that not believing in God will make you become bad. But that is simply your subjective opinion.
My subjective opinion is different. I see many people who believe in God can't tell the difference between right and wrong. While many who do not believe in God (or who are agnostics like me) are good, law-abiding, and decent people.
)
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My nick is cosmicdancer. Not Comic Dancer.
Does your belief in God teach you to mock people's name?Sorry. That was a typo i was unaware of. I dont want you mock you nickname. Sorry again.
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You believe that not believing in God will make you become bad. But that is simply your subjective opinion.
i dont believe that. I believe the deeds FOLLOW belief and that everyone on earth act according to their beliefs. Believing in GOD or not, those belief is the foundation of your deeds. If a person disblieve in GOD, it will reflect in his deeds period.
Cosmicdancer, i think this is a sensitive issue for you because you yourself disbelieve in GOD and have hope and wishful think that even your disbelief will still give you a chance to enter Paradise if you did good deeds. Because, even agnostics believe the they cannot prove NOR DISPROVE GOD existence. So they just HOPE.
.....I see many people who believe in God can't tell the difference between right and wrong. While many who do not believe in God (or who are agnostics like me) are good, law-abiding, and decent people.
I can say they opposite.... I see people who claim to be agnostics act with awareness of GOD (or greater power) and people you of claim to believe in GOD act with complete unawareness of GOD. Either way, the belief guides their action and deeds. And there deeds shows show us there true belief.
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Peace Aaron
Not everyone studies it deeply, like myself, but when I'm interested I shall delve here and there to seek such things. But yea, you're right, sometimes a word from another language cannot be translated with one word to another language. Like Rabb, which has so many other significant meanings when you look into it.
Jor
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yeah joe when i investigated it i began to understand a little more )
Perhaps Heaven is only for those with good reading comprehension skills.
those with good reading comprehension when it comes to the signs played before them in the ongoing story of the universe that is unfolding before us )
you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows
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peace every one. freeminds is all over google. you guys are popular. what a hot discussion in progress on topic HELL. i am fascinated.
every one here is trying to explain what god has said in koran to cosmicdancer - trying to justify things by this method or that method. nothing working out. at least to my eye nothing is cutting out. cosmicdancer is winning this round.
sorry to be blunt in my first post - but the problem with muslims is that they have to justify every thing. they have to explain every thing. they think it is their responsibility to explain every single thing in a manner that is acceptable to the person asking questions. that is were you are wrong and you can never win.
why can't you just say that you dont know. god knows the best. god knows things that you dont know. who are you to tell others whether hell is tangible or intangible with such a great confidence? god knows what hell is. in logic there is a category called 'dont know'.
i remember the name cosmicdaner from other forums. this rings a bell. are you a female cosmicdancer?
cosmicdancer - you said you refuse to believe in a god that is sadist and punishing. what a statement my friend. who are you to tell how the god should behave. what if the hell is for real? utter your above statement in the hereafter directly to god and see if you have a case. think big and get out of this 'explain me every thing' approach. otherwise the time will fly and you never be able to reach the truth in your life time. can't you see koran is too miraculous to be created by a person? how would you explain the miracles? are you blind deaf or dumb? honestly can you explain the miracles? if this is established that koran is divine then stop asking questions in order to judge koran and start pondering over it with open heart - start looking for answers yourself. go deep in koranic ocean. koran will give you a different picture if you believe in its divinity. think about it. wear different glasses. you need a paradigm shift - unless you are merely debating to boost your ego by refuting others perpetually.
this debate will never end. all explanations of quranists will be rejected by the cosmicdancer and soon this thread will reach 2000 hits without reaching any conclusion.
most people are rude in this forum - like me. koran teaches us to be kind. shame on us. the forum tone does not give a momin or islamic feel. something is wrong. are you sure you people are following koran? applies to me too. why are you so rude to each other? are we sure we are not kidding ourselves here?
what's up with you thenabi - the admin person? you have threatened cosmicdancer to close this thread? that was funny and unkoranic at the same time. your ego threashold seems to be low.
chacha
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peace every one. freeminds is all over google. you guys are popular. what a hot discussion in progress on topic HELL. i am fascinated.
every one here is trying to explain what god has said in koran to cosmicdancer - trying to justify things by this method or that method. nothing working out. at least to my eye nothing is cutting out. cosmicdancer is winning this round.
sorry to be blunt in my first post - but the problem with muslims is that they have to justify every thing. they have to explain every thing. they think it is their responsibility to explain every single thing in a manner that is acceptable to the person asking questions. that is were you are wrong and you can never win.
why can't you just say that you dont know. god knows the best. god knows things that you dont know. who are you to tell others whether hell is tangible or intangible with such a great confidence? god knows what hell is.
i remember the name cosmicdaner from other forums. this rings a bell. are you a female cosmicdancer?
cosmicdancer - you said you refuse to believe in a god that is sadist and punishing. what a statement my friend. who are you to tell how the god should behave. what if the hell is for real? utter your above statement in the hereafter directly to god and see if you have a case. think big and get out of this "explain me every thing" approach. otherwise the time will fly and you never be able to reach the truth in your life time. can't you see koran is too miraculous to be created by a person? how would you explain the miracles? are you blind deaf or dumb? honestly can you explain the miracles? if this is established that koran is divine then stop asking questions in order to judge koran and start pondering over it with open heart - start looking for answers yourself. go deep in koranic ocean. koran will give you a different picture if you believe in its divinity. think about it. wear different glasses. you need a paradigm shift - unless you are merely debating to boost your ego by refuting others perpetually.
this debate will never end. all explanations of quranists will be rejected by the cosmicdancer and soon this thread will reach 2000 hits without reaching any conclusion.
most people are rude in this forum - like me. koran teaches us to be kind. shame on us. the forum tone does not give a momin or islamic feel. something is wrong. are you sure you people are following koran? applies to me too. why are you so rude to each other? are we sure we are not kidding ourselves here?
what's up with you thenabi - the admin person? you have threatened cosmicdancer to close this thread? that was funny and unkoranic at the same time. your ego threashold seems to be low.
chacha
Salaam alykum chacha
Wel come welcome
nice advices we needed a chacha ( uncle ) you are right i agree with you
peace
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Peace Chacha
what's up with you thenabi - the admin person? you have threatened cosmicdancer to close this thread? that was funny and unkoranic at the same time. your ego threashold seems to be low.
I did not threaten him/her but I gave that person the option, to keep the thread clean (since she called me names which as you so clearly pointed out is not in line with the system) or else face the consequences just as we must if we intend to disbelieve and do wrong. I had to mention that since the idea of retribution is what I intended to show to Cosmicdancer.
Joe
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i dont believe that. I believe the deeds FOLLOW belief and that everyone on earth act according to their beliefs. Believing in GOD or not, those belief is the foundation of your deeds. If a person disblieve in GOD, it will reflect in his deeds period.
Cosmicdancer, i think this is a sensitive issue for you because you yourself disbelieve in GOD and have hope and wishful think that even your disbelief will still give you a chance to enter Paradise if you did good deeds. Because, even agnostics believe the they cannot prove NOR DISPROVE GOD existence. So they just HOPE.
I can say they opposite.... I see people who claim to be agnostics act with awareness of GOD (or greater power) and people you of claim to believe in GOD act with complete unawareness of GOD. Either way, the belief guides their action and deeds. And there deeds shows show us there true belief.
You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.
But you say that not believing in God does not make you do bad deeds.
I find this confusing.
Do you mean your beliefs affect you but you can still disbelieve in God, do good deeds and go to heaven?
Or not?
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Hi Chacha,
I am a guy, but you have probably met me before on another forum.
Your writing style also seems familiar.
can't you see koran is too miraculous to be created by a person? how would you explain the miracles? are you blind deaf or dumb? honestly can you explain the miracles? if this is established that koran is divine then stop asking questions in order to judge koran and start pondering over it with open heart - start looking for answers yourself.
But that's the whole point Chacha.
I don't believe the Qur'an is mircaulous.
Tell me how is one to judge whether or not to believe in the Qur'an - or any other holy book - if not by using ones reason?
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You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.
But you say that not believing in God does not make you do bad deeds.
I find this confusing.
Do you mean your beliefs affect you but you can still disbelieve in God, do good deeds and go to heaven?
Or not?
just to give you my views on this...
the quran says "god is the ultimate truth."
so belief in truth will lead you to do good deeds.
if you believe in crap, then you'll do a lot of crap too.
For example suicide bombers believe that they will go to heaven and get virgins if they kill themselves to kill others. That is a false belief, and it makes them kill themselves.and what we have to remember is that our belief has to be absolute, we can't have any doubts. We have to truly believe in the truth, have it ingrained in our minds so that we act upon it instintively. Most of our actions are instant reactions to something where we don't have time to think, so we have to cultivate the truth and good behaviour in ourselves so that we do good like we walk (without having to think about it), and the key is repitition. (Kyle just posted a topic on this)
I don't believe the quran's miraculous either, but it's certainly worth a read.
or maybe it has gotten so old and the message has gotten so muddled that we're just better off staying away?peace
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I don't believe the quran's miraculous either, but it's certainly worth a read. or maybe it has gotten so old and the message has gotten so muddled that we're just better off staying away?
I agree with the above quote.
Even though, as a Spurs fan, I am loath to agree with anything an Arsenal fan says lol p
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I agree with the above quote.
Even though, as a Spurs fan, I am loath to agree with anything an Arsenal fan says lol p
625 - Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."
You are warned against that course of action.
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You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.
But you say that not believing in God does not make you do bad deeds.
I find this confusing.
You are confusing you self,. You got it right the first time?.? You say that your belief in god or denial will affect your deeds.?
Do you mean your beliefs affect you but you can still disbelieve in God, do good deeds and go to heaven?
Or not?
Your belief affects your deeds. I?m saying that people who disbelieve in GOD existence can still can do good. BUT, that disbelief in GOD existence comes with consequences that may cause them their place in GOD?s paradise.
Think about this and let me know what you think. Here are two examples.
(1) If you believe that you don?t have a mother or believe that your mother never exist (even though she does), how will you treat your mother? Isn?t your belief about your mother affecting your deeds and action (especially towards your mother)?
(2) If you are working at a job, but believe that your boss is evil and not kind to anyone. How would you treat your job and your boss? Wouldn?t your belief affect your deeds and action towards the job?