Historical Debates and Treatises on Quran
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Salaam,
I suggest to read some articles and books on these sites who cover these issues
www.ourbeacon.com
www.tolueislam.comand the article by Wakas is a very good intro
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/rethink.htm
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salam brothers Arnold and Wakas
thank you for providing those links.
what i am really after is ancient discussions on the Quran. i suppose it troubles me that i only find ahadith-free discussions on Quran from around the past 100 or so years. i find it impossible that such things were not discussed 1000 or 500 years ago, or that hadith rejectors did not exist in that era. it is possible that such thoughts were suppressed as they are in our day, but it seems odd that nothing at all seems to exist.
i guess i am questioning whether i am straying further and further from the straight path and worried that God has abandoned me. if that is the case, i surely deserve it because i do not doubt that He is just. it would be nice to know how i can find Him again; i know He is hears me, but it seems i am hearing him less than before.
thank you for your help.
salam
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Salam brother ignoramus,
Verse 1556 is for you.
1551
Free-Minds And inform them of Abraham's guests.
Rashad Khalifa Inform them about Abraham's guests.
Yusuf Ali Tell them about the guests of Abraham.
Pickthal And tell them of Abraham's guests,1552
Free-Minds That they entered upon him, they said "Peace." He said "We are worrisome of you."
Rashad Khalifa When they entered his quarters, they said, "Peace." He said, "We are apprehensive about you."
Yusuf Ali When they entered his presence and said, "Peace!" He said, "We feel afraid of you!"
Pickthal (How) when they came in unto him, and said Peace. He said Lo! we are afraid of you.1553
Free-Minds They said "Do not worry, we bring you good news of a knowledgeable son."
Rashad Khalifa They said, "Do not be apprehensive. We have good news for you an enlightened son."
Yusuf Ali They said "Fear not! We give thee glad tidings of a son endowed with wisdom."
Pickthal They said Be not afraid! Lo! we bring thee good tidings of a boy possessing wisdom.1554
Free-Minds He said "What good news can you bring me when old age has come upon me? Is that your good news?"
Rashad Khalifa He said, "How can you give me such good news, when I am so old? Do you still give me this good news?"
Yusuf Ali He said "Do ye give me glad tidings that old age has seized me? Of what, then, is your good news?"
Pickthal He said Bring ye me good tidings (of a son) when old age hath overtaken me? Of what then can ye bring good tidings?1555
Free-Minds They said "We have brought you good news with truth, so do not be of those in denial."
Rashad Khalifa They said, "The good news we give you is true; do not despair."
Yusuf Ali They said "We give thee glad tidings in truth be not then in despair!"
Pickthal They said We bring thee good tidings in truth. So be not thou of the despairing.1556
Free-Minds He said "And who would deny the mercy of his Lord except the misguided ones!"
Rashad Khalifa He said, "None despairs of his Lord's mercy, except the strayers."
Yusuf Ali He said "And who despairs of the mercy of his Lord, but such as go astray?"
Pickthal He said And who despaireth of the mercy of his Lord save those who are astray?Never despair of God's Mercy. Do good deeds for God and do not ascribe partners to him. God sees everything.
Salam,
Ali -
Salam brother ignoramus,
Verse 1556 is for you.
1551
Free-Minds And inform them of Abraham's guests.
Rashad Khalifa Inform them about Abraham's guests.
Yusuf Ali Tell them about the guests of Abraham.
Pickthal And tell them of Abraham's guests,1552
Free-Minds That they entered upon him, they said "Peace." He said "We are worrisome of you."
Rashad Khalifa When they entered his quarters, they said, "Peace." He said, "We are apprehensive about you."
Yusuf Ali When they entered his presence and said, "Peace!" He said, "We feel afraid of you!"
Pickthal (How) when they came in unto him, and said Peace. He said Lo! we are afraid of you.1553
Free-Minds They said "Do not worry, we bring you good news of a knowledgeable son."
Rashad Khalifa They said, "Do not be apprehensive. We have good news for you an enlightened son."
Yusuf Ali They said "Fear not! We give thee glad tidings of a son endowed with wisdom."
Pickthal They said Be not afraid! Lo! we bring thee good tidings of a boy possessing wisdom.1554
Free-Minds He said "What good news can you bring me when old age has come upon me? Is that your good news?"
Rashad Khalifa He said, "How can you give me such good news, when I am so old? Do you still give me this good news?"
Yusuf Ali He said "Do ye give me glad tidings that old age has seized me? Of what, then, is your good news?"
Pickthal He said Bring ye me good tidings (of a son) when old age hath overtaken me? Of what then can ye bring good tidings?1555
Free-Minds They said "We have brought you good news with truth, so do not be of those in denial."
Rashad Khalifa They said, "The good news we give you is true; do not despair."
Yusuf Ali They said "We give thee glad tidings in truth be not then in despair!"
Pickthal They said We bring thee good tidings in truth. So be not thou of the despairing.1556
Free-Minds He said "And who would deny the mercy of his Lord except the misguided ones!"
Rashad Khalifa He said, "None despairs of his Lord's mercy, except the strayers."
Yusuf Ali He said "And who despairs of the mercy of his Lord, but such as go astray?"
Pickthal He said And who despaireth of the mercy of his Lord save those who are astray?Never despair of God's Mercy. Do good deeds for God and do not ascribe partners to him. God sees everything.
Salam,
Alisalam brother Al
good to hear from you again.
i do not think i am in a state of despair, i just feel extremely sad that i understand so little of the Quran. i am particularly sad that i do not have clue what salat is. i know salat is not exactly what i previously thought it was, but even when i practised it incorrectly, i felt a connection with God that i have not had for a long time. i have tried on several occasions to perform the salat in the way used to, but i cannot find that connection with the Almighty; my actions, thoughts and words seem to just vanish into the abyss of my own pathetic self-pity.
how am i to know whether or not i am one of those who God has allowed to stray because i have sinned or disbelieved? it is not enough for me to think that i am doing good because God says "and their deeds seem goodly to them".
whatever is the Truth, i previously spent 5 hours a day devoting myself to God in prayer, love and meditation. i deeply miss the connection with Him and since whatever happened to me happened to me, i cannot say i have devoted myself to Him for even a short time.
God says the Quran is plain and clear, and i do not doubt that it is. what worries me is that my eyes are clouded so much that i can hardly understand the tiniest part of His message.
i have never truly feared hell or truly aspired to heaven; i cannot express what it is that i desire, but in a way His pleasure is my goal. all of a sudden i am in a dark place and i am not sure if will ever find a spark of light. i feel utterly lost, i do not like this place and i wish to go home.
we intellectualise, philosophise, critisice, and rationalise everything expecting that reason and intellect will lead us toward the Truth, but who is to say any of this will help us in the slightest.
thank you for posting these beautiful verses.
may God have mercy on us all.
salam
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Salam Ignormaus,
Al is my twin brother. His user name is aalmakto.
Regarding "and their deeds seem goodly to them"
In the Quran it tells us what the Good deeds are. Helping the poor, helping your relatives etc. I also am abit confused about things like prayer and pilgrimage and focal points etc. But the basic good deeds such as feeding the poor, controlling anger etc, everyone can do. God willing the other parts you and I will figure out.
Salam,
Ali -
Salam Ignormaus,
Al is my twin brother. His user name is aalmakto.
Regarding "and their deeds seem goodly to them"
In the Quran it tells us what the Good deeds are. Helping the poor, helping your relatives etc. I also am abit confused about things like prayer and pilgrimage and focal points etc. But the basic good deeds such as feeding the poor, controlling anger etc, everyone can do. God willing the other parts you and I will figure out.
Salam,
Alisalam brother Ali.
i apologise for confusing you with Al, your forum names are very similar.
thank you for sharing your thoughts.
salam
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peace i,
I forgot to say that brother Ayman may know of specific books you can read, pm him, also the books by Dr Shabir cite specific references which you could follow up on.
I would like to address other parts of your post because I understand exactly how you feel because I too have experienced those feelings and I'm sure any person in their quest for the truth has also experienced them
God says the Quran is plain and clear, and i do not doubt that it is. what worries me is that my eyes are clouded so much that i can hardly understand the tiniest part of His message.
all of a sudden i am in a dark place and i am not sure if will ever find a spark of light. i feel utterly lost, i do not like this place and i wish to go home.
On the contrary, only out of the deepest dark can come the brightest of lights brother. When a bright light is shone, at first your eyes are dazzled, you can hardly see, it is uncomfortable and all you want to do is close your eyes, but you do not, you endure a short period of discomfort/dazzle until your eyes adjust so you can see clearly. Many close their eyes, because the dark is more comfortable for them. Your eyes have been opened.
I often think that discovering islam based on AQ is only the first step, the next perhaps more difficult step is realising how deep the rabbit hole goes. If you have ever seen The Matrix (film) there is an excellent dialogue between Morpheus and Neo about this very aspect, allow me to quote it
MORPHEUS I imagine, right now, you must be feeling a bit like Alice, tumbling down the rabbit hole?
NEO You could say that.
MORPHEUS I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up.
MORPHEUS Ironically, this is not far from the truth. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Can you tell me, Neo, why are you here?
NEO You're Morpheus, you're a legend. Most hackers would die to meet you.
MORPHEUS Yes. Thank you. But I think we both know there's more to it than that. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
NEO No.
MORPHEUS Why not?
NEO Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.
MORPHEUS I know exactly what you mean.
MORPHEUS Let me tell you why you are here. You are here because you have the gift.
NEO What gift?
MORPHEUS I've watched you, Neo. You do not use a computer like a tool. You use it like it was part of yourself. What you can do inside a computer is not normal. I know. I've seen it. What you do is magic.
Neo shrugs.
NEO It's not magic.
MORPHEUS But it is, Neo. It is. How else would you describe what has been happening to you?
He leans forward.
MORPHEUS We are trained in this world to accept only what is rational and logical. Have you ever wondered why?
Neo shakes his head.
MORPHEUS As children, we do not separate the possible from the impossible which is why the younger a mind is the easier it is to free while a mind like yours can be very difficult.
NEO Free from what?
MORPHEUS From the Matrix.
Neo locks at his eyes but only sees a reflection of himself.
MORPHEUS Do you want to know what it is, Neo?
Neo swallows and nods his head.
MORPHEUS It's that feeling you have had all your life. That feeling that something was wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad, driving you to me. But what is it?
The LEATHER CREAKS as he leans back.
MORPHEUS The Matrix is everywhere, it's all around us, here even in this room. You can see it out your window, or on your television. You feel it when you go to work, or go to church or pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
NEO What truth?
MORPHEUS That you are a slave, Neo. That you, like everyone else, was born into bondage... ... kept inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind.
MORPHEUS Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.
NEO How?
MORPHEUS Hold out your hands.
In Neo's right hand, Morpheus drops a red pill.
MORPHEUS This is your last chance. After this, there is no going back.
In his left, a blue pill.
MORPHEUS You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and you believe whatever you want to believe.
The pills in his open hands are reflected in the glasses.
MORPHEUS You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
If ever in doubt, stick to the core hold fast on to the rope of God and strive to do good deeds, this is what it is all about in the end.
Every prophet in AQ, from Adam to Muhammad at one point felt lost, struggled, erred, doubted... and I'm sure they would have ratehr gone home too, because a home is comfortable, familiar. Being out of your comfort zone is not a bad thing, in fact, it is necessary.
Take your time and never give up, for God does not give us burdens too heavy for us to bear. Find comfort in this, God knows you can get past this feeling, trust in Him, trust in yourself and all will become clear brother.
peace.
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Peace,
I reccomend reading Margoliouth's " Muhammedanism", Schacht's "Islamic Jurisprudence", Hallaq's "Origin and development of Islamic Law".
They all point out that the first generations only used the Quran and that every city or region had their own customs which they later on mixed with the Islamic system.
