Ramadan is here. How many will fast and how will you spend your time?
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peace alalmakt, siki, Ayman, Zenje, all,
Re layl
Our past discussion revolved around the following
3637 And a sign for them is the night/layl, We remove the daylight from it, whereupon they are in darkness.
See also
http//pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/quranic-day-night/ -
i remember my first ramadan, the first day, i fell asleep in the afternoon and had a dream about eating something out of my fridge and spitting it out all scared and feeling sorry, it wasnt pleasant.
3rd ramadan this one
may God protect and bless us all
peaceHey ...I have a dream every year that I forget I am fasting and start eating. How strange is that? And yes I too start spitting the food out in my dreams.
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Happy and Blessed RamaDdan to all who are fasting.
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peace alalmakt, siki, Ayman, Zenje, all,
Re layl
Our past discussion revolved around the following
3637 And a sign for them is the night/layl, We remove the daylight from it, whereupon they are in darkness.
See also
http//pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/quranic-day-night/wakas !
The article is well researched, however i have following questions,
2187, permitted for you is sexual intercourse with your wives during the night of fasting?You may eat and drink until the white thread (of light) becomes distinguishable from the black thread at dawn. Then, you shall fast until the night?
- If the night starts at sun set and finishes at sun rise, then , do you think that it is ok to have an intercourse with one's wife from dawn to sun rise? because that period , by the article's logic should be night.
2.The parameter at which we are breaking fast is Ghouroobul shams, and is many a times used in quran, i want to ask, why did God not use a clear and unimbigous term to decribe this parameter? where as , he is very precise about when we should start fasting.
3637 And a sign for them is the night/layl, We remove the daylight from it, whereupon they are in darkness.
- when the day light is removed from the night(fully) that is what God is defining as night(layal). so the night is darkness , and does not contain daylight in it.
peace
siki
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Peace Siki,
2187, permitted for you is sexual intercourse with your wives during the night of fasting?You may eat and drink until the white thread (of light) becomes distinguishable from the black thread at dawn. Then, you shall fast until the night?
- If the night starts at sun set and finishes at sun rise, then , do you think that it is ok to have an intercourse with one's wife from dawn to sun rise? because that period , by the article's logic should be night.
Yes.
2.The parameter at which we are breaking fast is Ghouroobul shams, and is many a times used in quran, i want to ask, why did God not use a clear and unimbigous term to decribe this parameter? where as , he is very precise about when we should start fasting.
Another term used for "ghouroob alshams" is "duluk alshams" (see 177. The terms "ghouroob alshams" and "duluk alshams" describe the period when the sun is setting. So the sun is on the horizon and it is gradually disappearing below the horizon (i.e. you can see it passing through or rubbing the horizon). On the other hand, "layl" starts when you can't see the sun because it is completely below the horizon. When "layl" starts is very precise. On the other hand "ghouroob/duluk alshams" is not precise because it takes a few minutes for the sun to pass through the horizon between when it is on the horizon and when it is below it.
3637 And a sign for them is the night/layl, We remove the daylight from it, whereupon they are in darkness.
3. when the day light is removed from the night(fully) that is what God is defining as night(layal). so the night is darkness , and does not contain daylight in it.It is impossible to remove daylight from "layl" unless "layl" has some daylight in it.
If you are saying that "layl" means "night/darkness" then the passage should have said "then whereupon they are in "layl"".
I think that the mental block that is apparent from your above comment and that I have seen with everyone who has a hard time understanding this issue is that they automatically equate the English "night" with the Arabic "layl". In Modern Arabic those two have become synonymous but clearly in the Classical Arabic of the great reading they have two different meanings. So you need to mentally dissassociate them to see the clear fact that when the god is talking about "layl", he is not talking about the English "night".
Peace,
Ayman
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Assallam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa borokatuhu
Insh allah I will fast again for Ramadan. I will carry on my work (teaching) and try to do as much as I can to renew my Faith.
Peace to All
Peace Hamid
May i ask what you mean by renewing your faith??
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Peace Ayman, siki, Wakas...
I think that the mental block that is apparent from your above comment and that I have seen with everyone who has a hard time understanding this issue is that they automatically equate the English "night" with the Arabic "layl". In Modern Arabic those two have become synonymous but clearly in the Classical Arabic of the great reading they have two different meanings. So you need to mentally dissassociate them to see the clear fact that when the god is talking about "layl", he is not talking about the English "night".
Peace,
Ayman
I agree, and this is why I had a hard time and refused to accept this. I kept thinking in terms of english or other languages where there is no dispute on what night means, so why should there be in arabic. However, when there are explanations for different parts of the night, then there is no problem in deciphering a particular/specific point.
So is layl/night, only the time between ghuroob alshams/duluk alshams/sunset and ghasak allayl/ darkness of the night. Or does layl encompass the whole night as well?
peace
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So is layl/night, only the time between ghuroob alshams/duluk alshams/sunset and ghasak allayl/ darkness of the night. Or does layl encompass the whole night as well?
peace
So "layl" = "twilight"?
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Ramadan Mubarak my Muslims family
I am so thankful for the ability to fast.
I have heard many sides to the 'When is Ramadan discussion' and have decided I will not (God willing) deny the blessing to join in with billions of people all over the world trying to fulfil the command of God.
I have decided that in my life I have joined in on many things in society and if abstaining from food, water and finding and feeding my spiritual connection as prescribed by God at a time I believe it to be is wrong then may God forgive me.
In the big scheme of things, I'd rather be wrong for praying more than most or as much as some, giving charity whenever whether at the times everyone does or not and fasting in the hottest month or when the Muslim collective fasts.
Can one ever try too hard to get it right? I hope not.
I worship God Alone.
May we grow and be able to love each other and espouse the best from every community of believers.
Good thoughts, good words, good deeds.
Peace, love and blessings.
Stephanie
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Peace Zenje,
So is layl/night, only the time between ghuroob alshams/duluk alshams/sunset and ghasak allayl/ darkness of the night. Or does layl encompass the whole night as well?
"layl" = twilight-night-twilight.
So it encompasses both twilights as well as the night. It is the period from after sunset until before sunrise. In other words, very simply it is the entire period when the sun is not apparent.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Siki,
Yes.
I think that the mental block that is apparent from your above comment and that I have seen with everyone who has a hard time understanding this issue is that they automatically equate the English "night" with the Arabic "layl". In Modern Arabic those two have become synonymous but clearly in the Classical Arabic of the great reading they have two different meanings. So you need to mentally disassociate them to see the clear fact that when the god is talking about "layl", he is not talking about the English "night".
Peace,
Ayman
peace Ayman
Brother , i don't have a mental block regarding this issue, because all my life Me and every one around (the whole country) has been breaking fast according to conventional perception,(which is your understanding as well), instead i make a fool of my self when i am the only one who waits for the night fall. it is difficult ,very difficult. I definitely want to revert to the Roman's practice.
As far as making luv from dawn to sun rise while fasting, sure i will have a mental block, but i assure you, i can easily over come that if logically convinced. However , i am not certain about my wife , weather she will be able to? After all it requires Two, 2 tango.
Another term used for "ghouroob alshams" is "duluk alshams" (see 177. The terms "ghouroob alshams" and "duluk alshams" describe the period when the sun is setting. So the sun is on the horizon and it is gradually disappearing below the horizon (i.e. you can see it passing through or rubbing the horizon). On the other hand, "layl" starts when you can't see the sun because it is completely below the horizon. When "layl" starts is very precise. On the other hand "ghouroob/duluk alshams" is not precise because it takes a few minutes for the sun to pass through the horizon between when it is on the horizon and when it is below it.
Dalukul shams is when the sun is touching the horizon or rubbing the horizon(when it is about to go down) where as Ghorubul shamas is when it has gone below the horizon , or we can say that it has disappeared below the horizon or has set.
Ghouroobul shams is the exact and precise parameter after which , according to you the layl starts, so why a clear and precise book creates this confusion by using the term layal ? when it had the option to use a much better criteria/term? where as it gives the precise parameter for starting the fast in the morning?
peace
siki
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You don't 'have to' eat at all! If you wake up real early in the morning, depending where you live I guess, just before the sunrise, there is a "white thread" of light in the sky. You can eat anytime before and up to that time. But no, you don't HAVE TO wake up just to eat.
Peace
So, this talks about the early morning right. That i may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn. This means i can eat before the white thread is distinc, then after that the fasting starts, right?
Then later in the verse there is
then you shall complete the fast until night;
this means i have to abstain from food in the journey, until night comes, then i can break the fast.
There is a friend that said "tell me how you fast without sunna"
well...
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Peace Siki,
Dalukul shams is when the sun is touching the horizon or rubbing the horizon(when it is about to go down) where as Ghorubul shamas is when it has gone below the horizon , or we can say that it has disappeared below the horizon or has set.
Ghouroobul shams is the exact and precise parameter after which , according to you the layl starts, so why a clear and precise book creates this confusion by using the term layal ? when it had the option to use a much better criteria/term? where as it gives the precise parameter for starting the fast in the morning?Arabic words of the form "fu3ul", like "ghurub", "duluk", "sujud", "ruku3", etc. describe a process not a particular instant. It is like saying watching "the sun setting". You don't watch the sun setting only in the instant when it is below the horizon. You are watching the entire process, which starts when the sun is on the horizon and ends when it is completely below the horizon.
Peace,
Ayman
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Ramadan Karim to everyone!
may you be blessed and uplifted this Ramadan, and able to study and pray with deeper clarity, God willing.
this is my first year fasting, and i am enjoying it very much. i take more time to read, study, reflect, and on occasion nap. ;D
