Abrahams BAIT ?
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Salaams All,
just an understanding;
Tahir ul Qadri ( ک ( م ( ا
Yousuf Ali In it are Signs Manifest; (for example), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah,- those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith, Allah stands not in need of any of His creatures.Mz
In the standing of Abraham are signs manifest, who ever takes up- such a cause attains safety; desire of such actions men owe Allah, who is able to it a way, but if any denies then verily Allah stands not in need of the worlds.
What was the standing of Abraham?
2258
Have not you looked at him who disputed with Abraham about his lord because had given him Allah the kingdom when said Abraham my lord (is) He who gives life and causes death He said I give life and cause death said Abraham verily Allah engages the Hostile from rising/increasing/gaining power you stop it?s going away/disappearing/ decreasing thus (was confounded) defeated he who (had) disbelieved and Allah does not guide people wrong-doers.
But Abraham did prove all this was not God like ? and remember Pharaoh said he was a god like and was thus confounded.And remember Abraham was the only one who opposed pharoe?s orders and saved his son from the slaughter which was let loose on the Israelites.
Gods Blessings.
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Peace,
Why so easily suppose that the station of Abraham must be a physical station?
It could likely be a mental station because he really made his minds up against idolworshipping in all forms when he destroyed his father's idols.
It would be ridicoulous if he after destroying his father's idols then created an even bigger idol in form of an stonecube(kaaba).
And what also hit me is that Abraham was the first who started this new way of approaching the truths from his Lord by becoming a true monotheist who rejected all forms of idolworshipping and then he raised the kaaba= base of ground for his beliefs and then probably preached the truth from his Lord in a community he built up and that community was masjid al haram.
Such a community can be built wherever you are able to build it, Abraham was the first one and he stands as a role model.
Peace
MariaThat's how I see it and have understood it.
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Peace,
Why so easily suppose that the station of Abraham must be a physical station?
It could likely be a mental station because he really made his minds up against idolworshipping in all forms when he destroyed his father's idols.
It would be ridicoulous if he after destroying his father's idols then created an even bigger idol in form of an stonecube(kaaba).
And what also hit me is that Abraham was the first who started this new way of approaching the truths from his Lord by becoming a true monotheist who rejected all forms of idolworshipping and then he raised the kaaba= base of ground for his beliefs and then probably preached the truth from his Lord in a community he built up and that community was masjid al haram.
Such a community can be built wherever you are able to build it, Abraham was the first one and he stands as a role model.
Peace
MariaThat's how I see it and have understood it.
Hi Maria,
I agree with what you are saying and,
i think i didn't make my post clear enough;
I didn't say it was a physical station;
standing (REPUTATION)
reputation, rank or position in an area of activity, system or organizationIn the standing of Abraham are signs manifest, who ever takes up- such a cause attains safety; desire of such actions men owe Allah, who is able to it a way, but if any denies then verily Allah stands not in need of the worlds.
What was the standing of Abraham?
2258
Have not you looked at him who disputed with Abraham about his lord because had given him Allah the kingdom when said Abraham my lord (is) He who gives life and causes death He said I give life and cause death said Abraham verily Allah engages the Hostile from rising/increasing/gaining power you stop it?s going away/disappearing/ decreasing thus (was confounded) defeated he who (had) disbelieved and Allah does not guide people wrong-doers.
But Abraham did prove all this was not God like ? and remember Pharaoh said he was a god like and was thus confounded.But
i doubt Abraham ever destroyed any stone idols - i don't believe there are any stone idols in the quran.
The quran isn't about stones but our actions, for it is our actions that will be quistioned whether they do benefit or harm.
Gods Blessings.
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Peace,
Maybe you are right that Abraham didn't destroyed stone idols but they were idols anyway and besides this there exists people who do worship stones.
Peace
Maria -
Hi Maria,
i doubt worshipping stones has harmed a single hair on anybodies head - but the person doing the worshipping.
but
Astonishing there were Righteous people in all countries fighting for the rights of individuals ? through peaceful means.
Opposing opposition whether they were little or big people.
As was Abraham in Egypt (i think)
Nelson Mandela ? South Africa.
Aung San Suu Kyi ? Myanmar (Burma)
Gandhi ? India.
Qaid-Azam ? Pakistan.and so forth.
Gods Blessings to All.
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Hi Maria,
i doubt worshipping stones has harmed a single hair on anybodies head - but the person doing the worshipping.
but
Astonishing there were Righteous people in all countries fighting for the rights of individuals ? through peaceful means.
Opposing opposition whether they were little or big people.
As was Abraham in Egypt (i think)
Nelson Mandela ? South Africa.
Aung San Suu Kyi ? Myanmar (Burma)
Gandhi ? India.
Qaid-Azam ? Pakistan.and so forth.
Gods Blessings to All.
It harmed many Aztec captives of old...
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How?
When they fought with people, they would take captives only, trying their best not to kill, and after that, sacrifice all their captives to whatever they believed in on a rather large altar.
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Salaams OP,
Sorry Br but the quran isn't about bowing to stone idols - i doubt it very very much.
?sacrificing captives?
The difference between physical bowing to stones and human sacrifice is one isn?t harmful and the other is, or don?t you agree.
Killing even one person is likened to killing the entire human race.
Where is the harm in someone worshipping a stone ? accept to himself- wasting his time - maybe?
God Bless.
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Salaams OP,
Sorry Br but the quran isn't about bowing to stone idols - i doubt it very very much.
?sacrificing captives?
The difference between physical bowing to stones and human sacrifice is one isn?t harmful and the other is, or don?t you agree.
Killing even one person is likened to killing the entire human race.
Where is the harm in someone worshipping a stone ? accept to himself- wasting his time - maybe?
God Bless.
Explain the story of Moses and the calf and we'll see.
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Salaams OP.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13498.msg113938#msg113938
And here is one before you have the time to ask it.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13482.msg113859#msg113859
God Bless.
I believe Damon's understanding is good, but if you are going to take "calf" as something else, it sounds as if you'll have to really stretch the wording of the verses quoted in that thread. Also, why suddenly the calf meaning?
Salaams OP,
Sorry Br but the quran isn't about bowing to stone idols - i doubt it very very much.
?sacrificing captives?
The difference between physical bowing to stones and human sacrifice is one isn?t harmful and the other is, or don?t you agree.
Killing even one person is likened to killing the entire human race.
Where is the harm in someone worshipping a stone ? accept to himself- wasting his time - maybe?
God Bless.
They made their "ilah" of stone idols and they believed their "ilah" commanded them to kill people. Same as someone taking for his "ilah" his desire and his "ilah", i.e. desire, commanding him to kill someone.
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Hi OP,
try using Burhans site to check out what the meaning of "AAajjala" throughout the quran is before deciding its a calf, i am certain its not a calf - but check it out, and check a dictionary as well if you like.
I am not sure your second part of the post which aya's you are refrerring to.
God Bless.
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Peace MZ,
I just wanna comment that you are right when you say that idolworshipping mostly harm yourself because that is such an wasting time when you can use it on a better way or in a more enhancing way.
I'm not single out stones, there can be alot healings in different kind of stones due to their minerals and energies but to idolworship them is such a odd thing to do. We should know better when God created us with a big brain ad capacity to develop it.
Peace
MariaP.s today i wearing a serpentine stone in a silverchain, it will hopefully give me more luck.
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Salaams OP,
They made their "ilah" of stone idols and they believed their "ilah" commanded them to kill people. Same as someone taking for his "ilah" his desire and his "ilah", i.e. desire, commanding him to kill someone.
so that was a reply to me and not any ayah as such - i think?
Well how can so many people have the same desire?
isn't it usually a leader proposing something which people then carry out?stones don't propose anything but the command of a single person can be taken to heart.
in the case of Abraham it is the Pharaoh's order being taken to heart, and carried out - killing spree of their eldest children - but Moses got lucky.
Salaams Maria,
no harm in wearing stones - or doing other things with them dear ,as i see, the quran isn't at all about stones but people have been lead to such a belief for their own benefits no doubt.
God Bless.
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Salaams OP,
so that was a reply to me and not any ayah as such - i think?
Well how can so many people have the same desire?
isn't it usually a leader proposing something which people then carry out?stones don't propose anything but the command of a single person can be taken to heart.
in the case of Abraham it is the Pharaoh's order being taken to heart, and carried out - killing spree of their eldest children - but Moses got lucky.
Salaams Maria,
no harm in wearing stones - or doing other things with them dear ,as i see, the quran isn't at all about stones but people have been lead to such a belief for their own benefits no doubt.
God Bless.
Peace,
Yes, it was a reply to you. There is also a similar theme in the Quran (4523).
Well how can so many people have the same desire?
isn't it usually a leader proposing something which people then carry out?Communication is not just verbal and human communication is on more levels than we perceive from a first look. There are a lot of subliminal messages going back and forth between people and neither realises it. Go outside, and yawn a few times (real yawns, not artificial ones) and those who watch you and see you in a positive/conforming light, at the very least, will yawn as well. Same as when you watch someone yawn on video. Same with those Bible groups, where person A says something about Jesus Christ, person B says "No, really? I feel it too! Wow!" and the whole choir "feels" it to fit in, not restricted to bible groups but you understand... So in the same way, someone can "feel" their stone idol or desire speak to them and someone else can "feel" the same and well, something happens. Especially in the case of desire, for obvious reasons.
stones don't propose anything but the command of a single person can be taken to heart.
I disagree. People can do things like blot out bad memories, and a few interesting things - in some cases, recalling a good memory associated with someone else makes the person who wishes to be included associate themselves with that memory (this is quite well documented, I think), it's a lie or falsehood in the reality, but it's very real to the person experiencing it. Same with idols, physical or otherwise, and people can also mix up dreams with reality, and so on and so on. If these things concerning the long term memory can happen, then why not the short term memory (as in 2-3 seconds of the past)? Remember "deja vu"? (What a question... confused). In some cases, it's the brain confusing the time after with the time before, so someone "remembers" something from the future. In short, our mind, personal (subconscious) desire, etc has a huge bag of tricks up its sleeve and where it finds an opening (something like a person yearning to be associated with someone else's memory), it will unleash them.
in the case of Abraham it is the Pharaoh's order being taken to heart, and carried out - killing spree of their eldest children - but Moses got lucky.
Ah, but you are saying Abraham's son is Moses. That sounds strange, is there any evidence of this in authentic previous scripture?
no harm in wearing stones - or doing other things with them dear ,as i see, the quran isn't at all about stones but people have been lead to such a belief for their own benefits no doubt.
I completely disagree. What you should say is "I see and perceive no harm in wearing stones" and not "there is no harm". It isn't a 2+2 situation here, considering the hidden effects of the mind.
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Hi Br,
There is also a similar theme in the Quran (4523).
That is about desire not stones.
- Sorry but no stone idols in the quran ? to my knowledge, though I may be wrong.
And yes a single person can start things in a crowd. And depending on his/her influence things will catch on although stones don?t do anything, it is us people according to how we may fantasize things.
Ah, but you are saying Abraham's son is Moses. That sounds strange, is there any evidence of this in authentic previous scripture?
Moses, according to my understanding is Abrahams son ? sorry to confuse you yet again.
Authentic previous scriptures ? Br, if there were such a thing will you have needed this quran???
Gods Blessings.
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Peace
Did he initially decide to? Yes.
37103 So when they both had surrendered, and he put his forehead down.
37104 And We called him "O Abraham,"
37105 "You have believed the vision." It was such that We rewarded the righteous.
37106 Surely, this was an exacting test.
37107 And We ransomed him with a great animal sacrifice.