You have made us die twice
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Peace Elke
Peace,
what about our creation as souls (first life) where we witness the existence of God - then first death - and now THIS life and second death to come ?
Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this." Nor can you say, "It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated?"
Another possible interpretation or is there a flaw in it arnold ?
lk
I would also like to know what this verse means exactly. Also how all the prophets took a covenant with their Lord before time. So were we all conscious prior to this human birth?
Peace
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Thank you gclandcp. The verse 228 answers the question.
Death->Life->Death->Life {Explorer}
The English word "death" cannot accrue before "Life". Death is to life alone. Before life "amwatan" refers to matter not "death", it can be translated as dead matter but not "death". In between "matter" and life is "" but after life in between the life and death particle will occur.
Perception and meanings; and occasion of use.
? on August 05, 2007, 125003 PM ?, particle, has 340 occurrences and is ordinarily translated with English words "and", or "then" by considering it synonym/synonymous {,} of "" and "". But, Grand Qur'an has explained and used it in a manner distinct in all respects from "" and "".
The word "and" or "then" as a substitute of """"are conjunction, denoting order and a delay giving the perception of a sequence "after that, afterwards, next, as a consequence". It also gives informal perception of "in addition to, as well as, along with, coupled with, combined with, furthermore, likewise". And it reflects the relationship of cause and effect.
Both these English words and the Arabic particles reflect a sequence of happenings/things which are interrelated. And one does not perceive the distance of time between the two things mentioned before and after the use of word "and" or "then". It reflects the continuity in the two things conjunct by them though delay in the order of happenings is evident with respect to the thing occurring after them in relation to the one occurring before them.
But particle is used in a distinct manner. It occurs as conjunction between two things different from each other in nature and reflects a break and time gap between both, not continuity. It does not reflect the perception of relationship of cause and effect. At its very first occurrence in the Quran, the meanings of it have been made quite evident, vivid and distinct???..
Quote
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/002.%20Meanings%20and%20Tabweeb%20of%20words/Dhumma%20%20Summa/001.%20SUMMA.htm -
Salaams,
Just a thought or two;
Are the two deaths of Noah?s people and the parties who came after him?
Who are them ? may be the people of Moses!
405
But (there were people) before THEM, who denied (the Signs),- the people of noah, and the parties (of evil) after them; and every People plotted against their prophet, to seize him, and disputed by means of vanities, therewith to condemn the Truth; but it was I that seized them! and how (terrible) was My Requital!
406
Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!
407
Those who sustain the Throne and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire!
408
"And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom.
409
"And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement".
4010
The Unbelievers will be addressed "Greater was the aversion of Allah to you than (is) your aversion to yourselves, seeing that ye were called to the Faith and ye used to refuse."(When Moses?s people realized they are to be destroyd like the previouse generations.)
4011
They said "OUR LORD! twice HAST THOU MADE US DIE, AND twice HAST THOU GIVEN US LIFE! Now have we recognised our sins Is there any way out (of this)?"
4012
"This is because, when Allah was invoked as the Only, ye did reject Faith, but when partners were joined to Him, ye believed! the Command is with Allah, Most High, Most Great!"
4013
He it is Who showeth you his Signs, and sendeth down sustenance for you from the sky but only those receive admonition who turn.(The way out was
4014
Call/strive ye, then, upon/to Allah/His relationship with sincere devotion to Him/it, even though the unbelievers may detest it.4023
AND WE SENT MOSES, with Our Signs and an authority manifest.God Bless All.
mz, I see your point. But shouldn't 4011 be translated as "they will say" instead of "they said". The verse is talking about future, not past.
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The English word "death" cannot accrue before "Life". Death is to life alone. Before life "amwatan" refers to matter not "death", it can be translated as dead matter but not "death". In between "matter" and life is "" but after life in between the life and death particle will occur.
Perception and meanings; and occasion of use.
? on August 05, 2007, 125003 PM ?, particle, has 340 occurrences and is ordinarily translated with English words "and", or "then" by considering it synonym/synonymous {,} of "" and "". But, Grand Qur'an has explained and used it in a manner distinct in all respects from "" and "".
The word "and" or "then" as a substitute of """"are conjunction, denoting order and a delay giving the perception of a sequence "after that, afterwards, next, as a consequence". It also gives informal perception of "in addition to, as well as, along with, coupled with, combined with, furthermore, likewise". And it reflects the relationship of cause and effect.
Both these English words and the Arabic particles reflect a sequence of happenings/things which are interrelated. And one does not perceive the distance of time between the two things mentioned before and after the use of word "and" or "then". It reflects the continuity in the two things conjunct by them though delay in the order of happenings is evident with respect to the thing occurring after them in relation to the one occurring before them.
But particle is used in a distinct manner. It occurs as conjunction between two things different from each other in nature and reflects a break and time gap between both, not continuity. It does not reflect the perception of relationship of cause and effect. At its very first occurrence in the Quran, the meanings of it have been made quite evident, vivid and distinct???..
Quote
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/002.%20Meanings%20and%20Tabweeb%20of%20words/Dhumma%20%20Summa/001.%20SUMMA.htmMazhar, I see your point regarding "amwatan" and difference between "summa" and "fa". Thanks.
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My 2 cents
- physical birth
- physical death
- the day of the judgment.
- Spiritual death = going to hell
- Spiritual birth = going to paradise
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Peace all,
This has been discussed in the past on this forum
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10351.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11653.msg81193#msg81193
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Thanks Tanveer
Dear Explorer
Tanveer's concept about life and death is not Quranic.
He thinks that "absence of life " is "death" ,so life is first then death.But quranic concept is that 'death" and "life " are two independent "Creations"672
Here Allah has metioned 'creation of death" first then creation of Life.
In the Verse
228
Sequence is like this
Death -------> Life --------->Death --------->life
So only two lives and two deaths ;
This is confirmed by this VErse
4011
There is no question of third life as Tanveer deducted by wrong methology as usual.Look at his post;Peace brother Naxus,
We will eventually have a total of not 2 lives but 3 lives. 2 lives would imply only one death
Life ---> death ---> life
1------------------------2However both 228 and 4011 clearly tell us about 2 deaths, therefore implying 3 total lives
Life ---> death ---> life ---> death ---> life
1-----------------------2-----------------------3What is his source of "Third Life" ??
Rember one thing what is life no one has been able to define it precisely even biologists.They do enumerate properties of living objects but could not tell exactly what the 'life " is. -
Peace Explorer,
You are welcome. Some people don't even bother to read the whole discussion before jumping to conclusions. All one has to do is read the whole discussion to see the Qur'aanic proof of the "third" life, but for some that is beyond their capabilities. I sympathize with them and acknowledge their handicap.
I pray that The God gives them the sight, intellect and logic that He has bestowed on the normal. I actually sort of envy them because there will be no burden on them !!
4817 There is no burden on the blind, nor is there any burden on the cripple, nor is there on the sick any burden. And whosoever obeys God and His messenger, He will admit them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; and whosoever turns away, He will punish him with a painful retribution.