You have made us die twice
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4011 They will say "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state?"
I thought the sequence of events were
- I was born (given life once)
- I will die (first death)
- I will resurrect (given life second time)
Where is the second death? Please clarify.
Thanks in advance.
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QXP commentary
4011 They will say, "Our Lord, twice You have made us die, just as twice You have made us live. But now we confess that we did trail behind in making progress. Is there any way out of this (second death)??
4012 It will be said to them, "This is your plight because when God alone was invoked you denied the message, but when others (such as your ?holy? men) were included besides Him, you believed. But the command belongs only to God, the Sublime, the Majestic.?
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Peace,
what about our creation as souls (first life) where we witness the existence of God - then first death - and now THIS life and second death to come ?
Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this." Nor can you say, "It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated?"
Another possible interpretation or is there a flaw in it arnold ?
lk
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Peace,
what about our creation as souls (first life) where we witness the existence of God - then first death - and now THIS life and second death to come ?
Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this." Nor can you say, "It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated?"
Another possible interpretation or is there a flaw in it arnold ?
lk
Elke,
If we were alive before then why did Quran use the word "created" for our earthly arrival, instead of "resurrected" or "Re-created"?
761 Was there not a time in the past when the human being was nothing to even be mentioned?
762 We have created the human being from a mixed seed; We test him, so We made him hear and see. -
Use your sense
In the Quran, we are described as created from dust, water, clay, sperm, egg cells, and an original being from which its partner was made from itself, and maybe a few things I've missed.
If we pop open a science book, we will find we are created from elements, molecules, compounds, atoms, substances, electrons, quarks, etc, etc. So, "create" or "khalaq" does not necessarily mean "originated".
If we were alive before then why did Quran use the word "created" for our earthly arrival, instead of "resurrected" or "Re-created"?
Good question. I'll just refer you to this other poster here
4011 They will say "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state?"
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peace
not everybody will say what it says in 4011,
4010 Those who had rejected will be told "God's abhorrence of you is greater than your abhorrence of yourselves, for you were invited to believe, but you chose to reject."just those who rejected, they are dead in this earthly life, just like those people that jesus brought back to life.
even today people say they are "reborn", so in what way did they die before this that they were reborn? -
So, "create" or "khalaq" does not necessarily mean "originated".{OPF}
With reference to human beings the above perception is not in line with the information given by Quran.
{Refer 3207}
Before being given life for the first time we were nothing but matter {Shai}.
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With reference to human beings the above perception is not in line with the information given by Quran.
{Refer 3207}
Before being given life for the first time we were nothing but matter {Shai}.
Look at the other verses, where it states humans and other living beings are made from water, sperm, and such. I didn't mean that "khalaq" didn't mean "originated", my mistake. I meant that "khalaq" does not mean we exclusively originated from this material, because as you know, we can say we are created from sperm, egg cells, clay, dust, water, atoms, elements, and so on - all of these will be right, but at different phases of time, some are universal, some are not.
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Peace,
We will live twice and die twice.
How can you disbelieve in GOD when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?
Thank you gclandcp. The verse 228 answers the question.
Death->Life->Death->Life
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Salaams,
Just a thought or two;
Are the two deaths of Noah?s people and the parties who came after him?
Who are them ? may be the people of Moses!
405
But (there were people) before THEM, who denied (the Signs),- the people of noah, and the parties (of evil) after them; and every People plotted against their prophet, to seize him, and disputed by means of vanities, therewith to condemn the Truth; but it was I that seized them! and how (terrible) was My Requital!
406
Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!
407
Those who sustain the Throne and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire!
408
"And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom.
409
"And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement".
4010
The Unbelievers will be addressed "Greater was the aversion of Allah to you than (is) your aversion to yourselves, seeing that ye were called to the Faith and ye used to refuse."(When Moses?s people realized they are to be destroyd like the previouse generations.)
4011
They said "OUR LORD! twice HAST THOU MADE US DIE, AND twice HAST THOU GIVEN US LIFE! Now have we recognised our sins Is there any way out (of this)?"
4012
"This is because, when Allah was invoked as the Only, ye did reject Faith, but when partners were joined to Him, ye believed! the Command is with Allah, Most High, Most Great!"
4013
He it is Who showeth you his Signs, and sendeth down sustenance for you from the sky but only those receive admonition who turn.(The way out was
4014
Call/strive ye, then, upon/to Allah/His relationship with sincere devotion to Him/it, even though the unbelievers may detest it.4023
AND WE SENT MOSES, with Our Signs and an authority manifest.God Bless All.
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Peace Elke
Peace,
what about our creation as souls (first life) where we witness the existence of God - then first death - and now THIS life and second death to come ?
Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this." Nor can you say, "It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated?"
Another possible interpretation or is there a flaw in it arnold ?
lk
I would also like to know what this verse means exactly. Also how all the prophets took a covenant with their Lord before time. So were we all conscious prior to this human birth?
Peace
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Thank you gclandcp. The verse 228 answers the question.
Death->Life->Death->Life {Explorer}
The English word "death" cannot accrue before "Life". Death is to life alone. Before life "amwatan" refers to matter not "death", it can be translated as dead matter but not "death". In between "matter" and life is "" but after life in between the life and death particle will occur.
Perception and meanings; and occasion of use.
? on August 05, 2007, 125003 PM ?, particle, has 340 occurrences and is ordinarily translated with English words "and", or "then" by considering it synonym/synonymous {,} of "" and "". But, Grand Qur'an has explained and used it in a manner distinct in all respects from "" and "".
The word "and" or "then" as a substitute of """"are conjunction, denoting order and a delay giving the perception of a sequence "after that, afterwards, next, as a consequence". It also gives informal perception of "in addition to, as well as, along with, coupled with, combined with, furthermore, likewise". And it reflects the relationship of cause and effect.
Both these English words and the Arabic particles reflect a sequence of happenings/things which are interrelated. And one does not perceive the distance of time between the two things mentioned before and after the use of word "and" or "then". It reflects the continuity in the two things conjunct by them though delay in the order of happenings is evident with respect to the thing occurring after them in relation to the one occurring before them.
But particle is used in a distinct manner. It occurs as conjunction between two things different from each other in nature and reflects a break and time gap between both, not continuity. It does not reflect the perception of relationship of cause and effect. At its very first occurrence in the Quran, the meanings of it have been made quite evident, vivid and distinct???..
Quote
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/002.%20Meanings%20and%20Tabweeb%20of%20words/Dhumma%20%20Summa/001.%20SUMMA.htm -
Salaams,
Just a thought or two;
Are the two deaths of Noah?s people and the parties who came after him?
Who are them ? may be the people of Moses!
405
But (there were people) before THEM, who denied (the Signs),- the people of noah, and the parties (of evil) after them; and every People plotted against their prophet, to seize him, and disputed by means of vanities, therewith to condemn the Truth; but it was I that seized them! and how (terrible) was My Requital!
406
Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!
407
Those who sustain the Throne and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire!
408
"And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom.
409
"And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement".
4010
The Unbelievers will be addressed "Greater was the aversion of Allah to you than (is) your aversion to yourselves, seeing that ye were called to the Faith and ye used to refuse."(When Moses?s people realized they are to be destroyd like the previouse generations.)
4011
They said "OUR LORD! twice HAST THOU MADE US DIE, AND twice HAST THOU GIVEN US LIFE! Now have we recognised our sins Is there any way out (of this)?"
4012
"This is because, when Allah was invoked as the Only, ye did reject Faith, but when partners were joined to Him, ye believed! the Command is with Allah, Most High, Most Great!"
4013
He it is Who showeth you his Signs, and sendeth down sustenance for you from the sky but only those receive admonition who turn.(The way out was
4014
Call/strive ye, then, upon/to Allah/His relationship with sincere devotion to Him/it, even though the unbelievers may detest it.4023
AND WE SENT MOSES, with Our Signs and an authority manifest.God Bless All.
mz, I see your point. But shouldn't 4011 be translated as "they will say" instead of "they said". The verse is talking about future, not past.
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The English word "death" cannot accrue before "Life". Death is to life alone. Before life "amwatan" refers to matter not "death", it can be translated as dead matter but not "death". In between "matter" and life is "" but after life in between the life and death particle will occur.
Perception and meanings; and occasion of use.
? on August 05, 2007, 125003 PM ?, particle, has 340 occurrences and is ordinarily translated with English words "and", or "then" by considering it synonym/synonymous {,} of "" and "". But, Grand Qur'an has explained and used it in a manner distinct in all respects from "" and "".
The word "and" or "then" as a substitute of """"are conjunction, denoting order and a delay giving the perception of a sequence "after that, afterwards, next, as a consequence". It also gives informal perception of "in addition to, as well as, along with, coupled with, combined with, furthermore, likewise". And it reflects the relationship of cause and effect.
Both these English words and the Arabic particles reflect a sequence of happenings/things which are interrelated. And one does not perceive the distance of time between the two things mentioned before and after the use of word "and" or "then". It reflects the continuity in the two things conjunct by them though delay in the order of happenings is evident with respect to the thing occurring after them in relation to the one occurring before them.
But particle is used in a distinct manner. It occurs as conjunction between two things different from each other in nature and reflects a break and time gap between both, not continuity. It does not reflect the perception of relationship of cause and effect. At its very first occurrence in the Quran, the meanings of it have been made quite evident, vivid and distinct???..
Quote
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/002.%20Meanings%20and%20Tabweeb%20of%20words/Dhumma%20%20Summa/001.%20SUMMA.htmMazhar, I see your point regarding "amwatan" and difference between "summa" and "fa". Thanks.
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My 2 cents
- physical birth
- physical death
- the day of the judgment.
- Spiritual death = going to hell
- Spiritual birth = going to paradise
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Peace all,
This has been discussed in the past on this forum
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10351.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11653.msg81193#msg81193
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Thanks Tanveer
Dear Explorer
Tanveer's concept about life and death is not Quranic.
He thinks that "absence of life " is "death" ,so life is first then death.But quranic concept is that 'death" and "life " are two independent "Creations"672
Here Allah has metioned 'creation of death" first then creation of Life.
In the Verse
228
Sequence is like this
Death -------> Life --------->Death --------->life
So only two lives and two deaths ;
This is confirmed by this VErse
4011
There is no question of third life as Tanveer deducted by wrong methology as usual.Look at his post;Peace brother Naxus,
We will eventually have a total of not 2 lives but 3 lives. 2 lives would imply only one death
Life ---> death ---> life
1------------------------2However both 228 and 4011 clearly tell us about 2 deaths, therefore implying 3 total lives
Life ---> death ---> life ---> death ---> life
1-----------------------2-----------------------3What is his source of "Third Life" ??
Rember one thing what is life no one has been able to define it precisely even biologists.They do enumerate properties of living objects but could not tell exactly what the 'life " is.