the biggest one of them did it
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Salaams Br?s,
Br. OP,
Some one there is asked to be a witness to a real situation;
They are asking the lord to bear witness to their following the messenger.
Now they are asking the lord to bear witness to them accepting the revelation.And from all the above someone else is being asked to witness a certain event.
And Br.DA,
How on earth does a person witness his own revelation? I think facts are stronger when it?s some one other witnessing.
So this translation doesn?t make sense as Abraham is saying he is a witness to the creation of the heaven???
Or he is saying he bears witness to this fact that his lord created the heavens ??..In both cases he isn?t a very weighty witness in any court room on earth ? no evidence!
God Bless.
if a person cannot be witness to his own revelation ,then what about Quran's authenticity.What is the evidence that it is God's word?
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Salaams Allen,
since childhood we live our lives and for all our actions we receive reactions - we know a lot of these and when someone says the same or even a little more wouldn't you think highly of them, whether you call them God or something other- but with the greatest admiration?
So where was/is the evidence?
In our experiences!
God Bless.
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Salaams Brs,
Br. OP,
Some one there is asked to be a witness to a real situation;
They are asking the lord to bear witness to their following the messenger.
Now they are asking the lord to bear witness to them accepting the revelation.And from all the above someone else is being asked to witness a certain event.
And Br.DA,
How on earth does a person witness his own revelation? I think facts are stronger when its some one other witnessing.
So this translation doesnt make sense as Abraham is saying he is a witness to the creation of the heaven
Or he is saying he bears witness to this fact that his lord created the heavens ..In both cases he isnt a very weighty witness in any court room on earth no evidence!
God Bless.
The example in the verses I posted are believers bearing witness to the truth, as DArgento put it. Naturally, these disciples didn't have infinite knowledge, allowing them to verify the whole scripture (37 - notice that the most knowledgeable still have a faith position, 4143 - see that the Quranic message which is still partly allegorical/unknown today has been said to previous messengers) and hence, their bearing of witness MUST, absolutely MUST be based on inferences (i.e. A is verified to be true, B is verified to be true, C, D, etc, etc, thus Z which we haven't seen or have no means of verification is true since A-Y are assuredly verified to the point of certainty, and Z is from the same source), and this is definitely possible for those with a messenger around them. It of course, has a base in faith.
Same thing, with Abraham. Maybe it's my preconceptions, but I really can't believe that Abraham was around, despite being a human being, despite the sheer fact that man came from Earth, and so on, and so on.
There are two types of witness here - a) "I bear witness that Person X did Y" and b) "I bear witness that Person X told me that he did Y". I believe this is a case of the latter, same with them messengers. Remember that Abraham's faith was personally completely certain, zero doubt in it, based on the story of birds. Whose courtroom are we talking about, humans, or God's? I believe it would be rather weighty evidence in the latter, given 1736 and the bird's story.
if a person cannot be witness to his own revelation ,then what about Quran's authenticity.What is the evidence that it is God's word?
Hello, Leo ;D
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if a person cannot be witness to his own revelation ,then what about Quran's authenticity.What is the evidence that it is God's word?
You either believe it or you don't. It's a personal adventure...It's hard to prove that to someone (let alone in a single post ahem), because we think differently and have a unique gene. But in the grandest scheme of things does it matter? Remember God is the beginning, so everything stems from God. If quran is sending a good message why would you not follow it? I follow good messages everywhere... whether it's a t.v. show, organized religions, bible, movies etc...
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Sister Samia, should I take this translation seriously or think just in hurry of attending to the post you pasted it?
You're right, I copied it from Yasin's post, because my intention was not based on the exact translation. It is not accurate, but not wrong.
It should be And by God I will plan a plot to your idols when you have gone away and turned your backs (to them).
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Now Sister why have you added (to them)? They all are sitting under the open sky at night. One man is talking to a group of men. They will go/turn away from him. And it is told that when they turned away from him then he went to the temple/idols and did what he did that night.
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Salaam mazhar
I understood that after they eave "them, i.e the statutes" of what happened afterwards He destroyed the statutes when nobody was there.
According to how you understand it, I think it should have been "if" not "after". Or maybe I did not get your point?
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Then what is the opinion/understanding of the Sustainer Lord of Worlds?
{There was no response/answer} Then he moved his eyes in the stars.
This is the scene of night. They are under the open sky. One can move his eyes in the stars only at night when stars are visible. To say that these words mean ?he looked into the sky thoughtfully? is merely playing foul with the words of the Book. Traditionalist did it to lend support to a so called hadith of Bukhari.
And said to them, ?I am dismayed/disappointed/fed up?
And for that they turned away from him and walked away?
{ }
?And I swear by Allah that I will do something with your idols after you have turned and gone away from me?. He had used a word which should have reflected to them that he will do something mischievous from their point of view. {Refer 2157}?And when they had turned/gone away from him then he went to the lords of them and said, ?What is the matter you don?t eat anything?
What is the matter with you that you don?t speak?
And then upon them he started striking with right hand?
{Refer 3787-92}?And resultantly he broke them into pieces except the one who was bigger for those people so that those people my approach/return to him? {Refer 2158}
Sister Samia, I hope the point has been clarified.
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Then what is the opinion/understanding of the Sustainer Lord of Worlds?
{There was no response/answer} Then he moved his eyes in the stars.
This is the scene of night. They are under the open sky. One can move his eyes in the stars only at night when stars are visible. To say that these words mean ?he looked into the sky thoughtfully? is merely playing foul with the words of the Book. Traditionalist did it to lend support to a so called hadith of Bukhari.
And said to them, ?I am dismayed/disappointed/fed up?
And for that they turned away from him and walked away?
Which chapter are these two verses? (sorry, I am away from my books!!)