I want you to have both my sin as well as your own sin

explorer

529 "I want you to have both my sin as well as your own sin, and you will then be among the dwellers of the Fire. Such is the reward of the wicked."

Does that mean that if A kills B without a just cause, all the sins of B gets transferred to A?

Thanks in advance

yfn123

It is no more than a human desire. That would be totally unfair that were to be true!

Anwar Azim

529 "I want you to have both my sin as well as your own sin, and you will then be among the dwellers of the Fire. Such is the reward of the wicked."

Does that mean that if A kills B without a just cause, all the sins of B gets transferred to A?

Thanks in advance

TheNabi

Peace

Being that they're usually wrong you may not want to take what they have to say seriously.

Joe

AlFajr

Peace explorer.
When you overlook peoples misdeeds, it erases some of your own.

mz

529 "I want you to have both my sin as well as your own sin, and you will then be among the dwellers of the Fire. Such is the reward of the wicked."

Does that mean that if A kills B without a just cause, all the sins of B gets transferred to A?

Thanks in advance

Salaams Br,

if you give some one a black eye without a cause- surely they will be able to get compensation in any decent court.

so killing some one without a cause how will the dead pay each other in the hereafter if not with their good deeds.

this is a general Muslim belief aswell- i think.

Jack

530 So he found it in himself to kill his brother; so he killed him. He thus became one of the losers.

532 It is because of this that We have decreed for the Children of Israel "Anyone who kills a person who has not committed murder, or who has not committed corruption in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! And whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people." Our messengers had come to them with clarification, but many of them are, after this, still corrupting on the Earth.

According to 529-30, Unjustified Murder is 'rejection'

Also, realize that one can repent according to 534.

arnoldyasin

27-29 (Isaac and Ishm?ael were brothers. At first Nubuwwat remained within the descendants of Isaac. Thereafter, however, it was bestowed upon Ishm?ael?s descendant (i.e. Muhammad, peace be upon him). The Jews were very envious of this.) To illustrate the results of envy, Allah relates to them, in due form, the story of the two sons of Adam *** (i.e. two persons). Each of them made an offering to Allah. The offering of one of them was accepted, and that of the other was not. Thereupon, the one whose offering was rejected said to the other out of anger and spite, ?I will surely kill you.? The other replied (I have done nothing against you that you should kill me) Allah accepts the offering from the Muttaqeen. You may stretch forth your hand to kill me but I will not do so. I am very much afraid of disobeying Allah?s Laws. It may, however, come about that in defending myself some harm may come to you. You will be responsible both for your intention to kill me and the injury you might receive at my hands. You will be the dweller of Jahannam. This is the recompense of z?alimeen.?

http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_005.htm

529 Innee oreedu an taboo-a bi-ithmee wa-ithmikafatakoona min as-habi alnnari wathalikajazao alththalimeena

Keywords

Ithm = Any action that depletes individual or communal energy = Actions that deplete individual and collective potential = Harming human lives = Lewd behavior = Discouraging productive work = Causing fear or grief by any means = Indulgence in pursuit of pleasure.

Zaalimeen, Zaalimoon = Oppressors = Those who hurt themselves or others = Who displace something from its rightful place = Who relegate the truth = Violators of human rights = Those who prefer to live in the darkness of ignorance = Unjust = Commonly translated as wrongdoers.

Conclusion

529 "I want you to both of me harming you (ithm) as well as you harming me(ithm), and you will then be among those that will experience the Fire . Such is the compensation of those who oppress and do wrong to Mankind."

The Ithm/Sin/Harm of the victim that the attacker is gonna carry was the damage caused done by the victim-brother by defending himself before being murdered, it is interesting that most people read this story without thinking that the victim-brother would defend himself and thus hurt the attacking brother. The Quran does not acknowledge the concept of Sin as in the Christian sense. The Quran acknowledges deeds that hurt yourself or Mankind and thus that you are an obstacle to your own and Mankind's Evolution. In a sense, the Quran acknowledges a sort of Islamic Karma which can already be found in the 4th sentence of the Quran.

Surah1 verse4 Maliki-Yauwme-Deen. The One that has complete Control over the Creation=Maliki and its phases=Yauwme The Law of Constant Requital and Compensation of deeds=Deen.

The Quran is very clear that nobody can carry anybody else's deeds and that all persons will be completely compensated for all its deeds, meaning that no deed will be overlooked. You can only compensate bad deeds by doing good

11114 ..... Good deeds remove bad deeds. This is a reminder for those who pay attention.

Thus the above story cannot be understood as one brother taking over the "sins" from the other brother as this would create a clear contradiction in the Quran. Sadly, through the Christian influence on the Quranic interpretation, the concept of sin and forgiveness were introduced while the Quran is very clear

7438 Every person is held in pledge for all that he has done.

5221 And they who attained belief, and whose children followed them in belief, We shall unite them with their families. We shall not let any of their deeds go to waste. Every human will be held responsible for his own doings.

God is called Ghafour and Raheem in the Quran, which is mostly translated as Forgiver and Merciful, while these are Christian words and create a distorted view on the Quran and create clear contradictions. Ghafour is more linked to protection as Ghafarah = Helmet = Protection = Shielding = Forgiveness = Cover; Yastaghfirun = They help protect like a helmet protects the head.

God is thus Ghafour, the Protector against the consequences of any wrong deeds by teaching you how to behave good. Thus He is called Ghafour-Raheem, the Provider of Protection, as He guides Mankind in their Evolution through the Quran. Rahman and Raheem come from Arrham, a womb, and thus refer to a source of sustance and protection as a womb, and to bringing the Creation to its endresult as a womb does with a foetus.

These are practical terms and not vague definitions. This is a God of Law, not of emotions. His love is shown in the care He has taken in the Universe, but His Rahma, sustanance, is the same for any human and so is His Law of Compensation, Deen.

Allen

Ghafour is more linked to protection as Ghafarah = Helmet = Protection = Shielding = Forgiveness = Cover; Yastaghfirun = They help protect like a helmet protects the head.
.

Dear
I went through your post very quickly.I want clarification and source/evidence /proof for the meanings of the highlighted words.

I know that word 'Ghafara" does mean

to protect
To cover
My concern is with the word
Ghafarah = Helmet
And the word

"Yastaghfirun = They help protect like a helmet protects the head"

If we take this meaning of "yastaghfirun" then in following verses

2746
you will have to translate this word as "you help protect Allah like a helmet protects head"Or in this verse
4110
You have to translate it like " he who does bad act or cruelty to himself and then he protects Allah like a helmet protects head
May I ask you the source of these unique translation/interpretations??
Thanks in advance.

arnoldyasin

Mighafar=Shield and Helmet

Yastaghfir=To ask protection against wrong deeds as a helmet protects against harm.

Qala ya qawmi limatastaAAjiloona bialssayyi-ati qabla alhasanati lawlatastaghfiroona Allaha laAAallakum turhamoona

2746 He said "My people, why do you hasten with evil ahead of good? If you would only seek God's Protection/ask for Allah's Protection, perhaps you will receive means of development."

turhamoona/ = to attain nourishment and development

4110
Waman yaAAmal soo-an aw yathlimnafsahu thumma yastaghfiri Allaha yajidi Allahaghafooran raheeman

4110 And whoever does any evil, or wrongs himself, then seeks God's Protection; he will find God Protecting, Provider.

Allen

Mighafar=Shield and Helmet

Yastaghfir=To ask protection against wrong deeds as a helmet protects against harm.

Qala ya qawmi limatastaAAjiloona bialssayyi-ati qabla alhasanati lawlatastaghfiroona Allaha laAAallakum turhamoona

2746 He said "My people, why do you hasten with evil ahead of good? If you would only seek God's Protection/ask for Allah's Protection, perhaps you will receive means of development."

turhamoona/ = to attain nourishment and development

4110
Waman yaAAmal soo-an aw yathlimnafsahu thumma yastaghfiri Allaha yajidi Allahaghafooran raheeman

4110 And whoever does any evil, or wrongs himself, then seeks God's Protection; he will find God Protecting, Provider.

So you admit that you comitted mistake
Previously you said

Yastaghfirun = They help protect like a helmet protects the head

Now you say that

Yastaghfir=To ask protection against wrong deeds as a helmet protects against harm

"To Protect " and "To ask for protection" are two different things.
Which of the two meanings do you adopt ?? Your first post or second??

Now the other word which you have put now .

Mighafar=Shield and Helmet

Again I need reference for it because it seems technically wrong. (Here come the intricacies of Arabic language)
I will let you know the actual word after you provide me reference for it.

Samia

So you admit that you comitted mistake
Previously you said

Now you say that

"To Protect " and "To ask for protection" are two different things.
Which of the two meanings do you adopt ?? Your first post or second??

Now the other word which you have put now .

Mighafar=Shield and Helmet

Again I need reference for it because it seems technically wrong. (Here come the intricacies of Arabic language)
I will let you know the actual word after you provide me reference for it.

Here is the actual word (from Lisaanul 3arab)

. .

Frankly speaking, I (and I believe many others) do not like the way you intimidate posters. This is not the way to correct a mistake or to post your comments. People are studying. You, as a know-all-in Arabic, should just show what you disagree with and post your correct explanation. The way you intimidate people is not acceptable. The word "mighfar" written as "mighafar" does not require all this ha ho. Be humble, be constructive not distructive. If you are not here to learn, then teach. You are doing neither.

Allen

Here is the actual word (from Lisaanul 3arab)

. .

Frankly speaking, I (and I believe many others) do not like the way you intimidate posters. This is not the way to correct a mistake or to post your comments. People are studying. You, as a know-all-in Arabic, should just show what you disagree with and post your correct explanation. The way you intimidate people is not acceptable. The word "mighfar" written as "mighafar" does not require all this ha ho. Be humble, be constructive not distructive. If you are not here to learn, then teach. You are doing neither.

Dear sister Samia
This is not "haa hoo".These are basics of Arabic.If we do not how to make derived words (instrumental nouns) ,then should refrain away from Arabic language.This is language of the Holy Quran.
That is the reason previousl he tried "to prove " before the readers that "tasbih" means swimming.
This is Quranic Language first we should learn then comment on verses.We should know what "alif-laam" means when attached to nouns. No???

Samia

Salaam Allen

I am not against your enquiry or your trying to comment on mistakes or criticize an unserstanding. On the contrary, this is what the process of learning is all about. I am against your way of doing so. Intimidating one may make them or others reluctant to participate; unless this is your aim...I hope not.

Why don't you explain in your own way? In this way, not only do you show the error of others in a dignified way, but also show the correct understanding and benefit your readers. Please let's treat each other with the respect we would like to be treated with. I really hope to see more positive posts from you and less aggression.

mz

And how does one seek Allah's protection -

by begging Him for it?

or by applying his attributes in our daily lives?

thus seeking His mercy.

2746 He said "My people, why do you hasten with evil ahead of good? If you would only seek God's Protection/ask for Allah's Protection, perhaps you will receive means of development."

Its the second, anybody may apply it whether you call yourself a Hindu or a Sikh and no doubt you will receive his mercy and its never indeed by begging.

God Bless All.

Humble

And how does one seek Allah's protection -

by begging Him for it?

or by applying his attributes in our daily lives?

thus seeking His mercy.

I am also curious about it

arnoldyasin

He uses the term Ghafouri-Raheemi many times. Ghafour coming from ghafara, to protect, thus meaning Protector. Raheemi coming from Arrham, the womb, thus refers to the quality of providing everything that is needed for development as a womb does for a foetus. Thus the combination Ghafouri-Raheem refers, by my opinion, to the definition of The Provider of Protection.

What did God provide? The Quran. What is the function of the Quran? It teaches us how to construct society and how to protect ourselves through the Laws and Wisdom it gives.

unknownuser

What did God provide? The Quran.

Slightly more than that ;D

Samia

Slightly more than that ;D

...which is also included in the quraan. ;D

arnoldyasin

It is an interresting note, that till now, I have only seen the term Ghafouri-Raheemi, the Provider of Protection, when God gives certain laws or advices.
Giving a clear connection that these Laws and Advices protect us against being out of harmony with the Universal Construct.

He also uses Ghafour and Raheem alone, seperate from each other, and these terms are by my opinion connected with the Creation of the Universe and its construct, as indeed the Earth's atmosphere that protect us and provide us with rain. Thus these loose definitions refer to the Universe and the terms combined to the Quranic Message.

AlFajr

It is an interresting note, that till now, I have only seen the term Ghafouri-Raheemi, the Provider of Protection, when God gives certain laws or advices.
Giving a clear connection that these Laws and Advices protect us against being out of harmony with the Universal Construct.

He also uses Ghafour and Raheem alone, seperate from each other, and these terms are by my opinion connected with the Creation of the Universe and its construct, as indeed the Earth's atmosphere that protect us and provide us with rain. Thus these loose definitions refer to the Universe and the terms combined to the Quranic Message.

Very interesting.