Muslim women are permitted to sing in public according to the Qur'an

unknownuser

You have repeated used the word 'disease in the heart".
Modern science says that diseases in the heart are of different types;
Like
Ischemic
cardiomyopathies
valvular heart diseases
hypertensive heart diseases
Which disease you are talking about ?

unknownuser

Back again Leoxyz? sigh

Good article, simple as that.

SwedenMajidah

Peace,

Yes, a good article indeed.

Then the salafi muslimahs strive for nothing hehe, they want to be like the wives of the prophet but according that verse no one can be like them so why make the life so hard then?

Maria

amuslim

Peace,

While I think that a lot of your article makes sense, shouldnt women also take notice to the fact of men with "disease in their hearts" and do what they can not to conjure it up? I dont see why women shouldnt try and emulate the wives of the prophets just because it was directed at the wives. Its like saying we shouldnt try and live like the prophets because they were unique.

Peace

Jack

shouldnt women also take notice to the fact of men with "disease in their hearts" and do what they can not to conjure it up?

Peace,

Maybe men shouldn't be going to such places?

Men should lower their gaze (2430). It shows equal responsibility. Why should women be held responsible for the men with evil in their hearts? Aren't we all held accountable for our own doings?

Its like saying we shouldnt try and live like the prophets because they were unique.

How do you live like the prophets? Which prophet(s)? And Why?

unknownuser

Peace,

While I think that a lot of your article makes sense, shouldnt women also take notice to the fact of men with "disease in their hearts" and do what they can not to conjure it up? I dont see why women shouldnt try and emulate the wives of the prophets just because it was directed at the wives. Its like saying we shouldnt try and live like the prophets because they were unique.

Peace

Let's go the full way and write our books like the Quran, because even though that states we shall never be like the prophets, or the wives of the prophets, and we shall never be able to produce a book like it, we should still try...

sahaba

Peace,

While I think that a lot of your article makes sense, shouldnt women also take notice to the fact of men with "disease in their hearts" and do what they can not to conjure it up? I dont see why women shouldnt try and emulate the wives of the prophets just because it was directed at the wives. Its like saying we shouldnt try and live like the prophets because they were unique.

Peace

I dont agree with your understanding. We follow the God-consciousness of the Prophet's and all righteous people mentioned in the Qur'an. However we DON'T follow specific commandments for who they were ie. Prophets or wives of the Prophet.

Emulating specific commandments to the wives of the Prophet's therefore mean nothing. If you mean their God-consciousness, then yes. But specific criterias explicitly stated to be only for them are only for them.

I will elaborate on some points I made earlier

If any of the Prophet's wives were to commit an act of indecency, the punishment for them is double to that for ordinary believing women (3330).

What did the Prophet's wive ever do wrong to deserve double punishment? Why do ordinary believing women get halve the punishment than they do? That is because the wives of the Prophet's are bound by a set of criteria DIFFERENT to ordinary believing women, and ordinary believing women do not have to abide by those criterias.

Ordinary believing men are not allowed to EVER marry the wives of the Prophet (3353).

Why are the Prophet's wives so special that no one can ever marry them after the Prophet? Whereas they can marry ordinary believing women after their previous husband? That is because the wives of the Prophet are DIFFERENT in the sense that they are bound by criteria DIFFERENT to the ordinary believing women.

"O wives of the prophet, you are not like any other women." This Verse even explicitly states this. Proving what I have said so far Indicating the ordinary believing are not required to be like them.

Again, emulating specific commandments to the wives of the Prophet's therefore mean nothing as you (as you ordinary believing women) are not expected to abide by them and hence not held accountable for.

Thanks for reading.

huruf

Dear brothers and sisters,

Really to go into any aya of the Quran is a treasure trove. As to 33.32, thanks for bringing it up. Reading it carefully, I don't see that even the mothers of the believers were forbidden to sing in public, but I will leave that aside.

Adding to what Ace of Hearts has so well stated, I have looked into the aya and, when the translator says "speaking softly", the impression I get is that he is talking about the women's voice, however the Quran says "takhda3na bil-qawl". But "qawl" to me doesn't carry the meaning of voice, but means "the words that are said", and t-kh-dh- is about humility, deference, compliance. Then, what has been translated as "desire" (yathma3a), very misleadingly I would say, is not that, at any rate nor any sensual desire, but rather ambition and covetousness, which obviously are also desire, but quite of a different kind of what we are led to believe by the general formulation and usage of the translation. It seems reasonably to think that a correct speech by the mothers of the believer could be used by scheeming men to extract mileage form a merely polite behaviour. So, in fact, as I see it, what it recommends is a careful speech that precludes anu dubious interpretation from alegal point of view. And in this sense, yes, no softness whatsoever. Summing up, nothing to do with lust, and all to do with diseased minds who try to obtain advantage from any "weak" point (in their minds) such as the women of the man of power and virtue, who are bound to be as least polite, and therefore could hardly chase them away with a bucket of cold water. Diplomacy?

Salaam

unknownuser

The increasing number of women who dress as men, who take on the role of breadwinners, who keep the same jobs as men and who sing in public
are all signs that the emergence of the Awaited One is upon us. hail

May Allah hasten his reapperance, so he may behead all of you Koran-Only infidels.. >

Samia

Salaam Huruf

Thanks for the indepth explanation of these two badly translated expressions YakhDa3na bilqawli and ya6ma3u. I fully agree with your explanation.

huruf

The increasing number of women who dress as men, who take on the role of breadwinners, who keep the same jobs as men and who sing in public
are all signs that the emergence of the Awaited One is upon us. hail

May Allah hasten his reapperance, so he may behead all of you Koran-Only infidels.. >D

Thanks, sweetie, for those cheerful thoughts. You better be sure you know as much as you think you do, because Allah knows best.

Other than, that, you cheerful one, what has dress fashion to do with this thread? But never mind, I wish anyway happy breadwinning, if in fact you do that, and you don't just leave to your womenfolk the burden of supporting you, which is somehting that many of those awaiting happy beheadings precisely are fond of doing.

Mazhar

An excellent explanation of the meanings of the discussed verses. But from this correct meanings and explanation how one can infer that ordinary woman of the society could sing in public? And let not "singing" and reciting Quran be made synonymous.

Samia

But from this correct meanings and explanation how one can infer that ordinary woman of the society could sing in public?

Could it be the same way we could infer (from nowhere) that ordinary men of the society could sing in public confused

Mazhar

The word "public" refers to a mix gathering of men and women. And I am taking "singing" in the ordinary manner we take it for singers, all sort. If singing is permissible in public gathering what will be the point in not focussing eyes on women/men? Would people listen the lady singer by keeping eyes on the floor.

Focussing the vision gives the strongest "....signal", then comes the voice and then comes the "....odor". Public exposure needs to be avoided.

unknownuser

Peace all,

Brother Mazhar raises a very logical point

If singing is permissible in public gathering what will be the point in not focussing eyes on women/men? Would people listen the lady singer by keeping eyes on the floor.

Normal/regular voice of a man/woman used in day to day conversation is different from the voice used by the same man/woman while singing. This "singing" voice is thus not readily apparent. Also, it is a known fact that the "normal" voice is not sexually provocative as opposed to the sensual voice that the same man/woman can emit. This "sensual" voice is not readily apparent.

Could it be that this "sensual" or "singing" voice is part of a woman's "zeenat"/beauty/adornment ? If that is so, then per 2431, women are not allowed to reveal their "zeenat" except what is apparent. Hence they will be allowed to reveal their "normal/regular" voice for ordinary conversation purposes, but not allowed to reveal their "sensual" or "singing" voice as it is not apparent. Likewise, lowering the gaze would also include not continuing to listen to "sensual" or "singing" voices.

Just throwing this out to see what others think about this. It just came to mind and I have not yet formed any solid stance about this.

huruf

I think the Quran has not spared detail in 24.31 and it doesn't hint that something has been left out. Apart from the aya for the mothers of the believers there is nothing to warrant such interpretation, which itself rest in a certain perception that is, I think, very individual. Myself I would say that singing is not at all an intimate thing, less anyway so that normal speech, unless you to make it look like that on purpose. People sing everywhere just like that, because they are happy, because they enjoy it, because they love it. It is like breathing. Can't really fathom how that can become a "hidden" zeenat. If one can imagine that, there is no stopping, and everything can be "hidden" zina.

On the other hand we are told on the Quran that God is not very fond of imposing burdens, can't remember exact formulation or aya, but I think it comes up saveral times.

unknownuser

Peace all,

Brother Mazhar raises a very logical point

Normal/regular voice of a man/woman used in day to day conversation is different from the voice used by the same man/woman while singing. This "singing" voice is thus not readily apparent. Also, it is a known fact that the "normal" voice is not sexually provocative as opposed to the sensual voice that the same man/woman can emit. This "sensual" voice is not readily apparent.

Could it be that this "sensual" or "singing" voice is part of a woman's "zeenat"/beauty/adornment ? If that is so, then per 2431, women are not allowed to reveal their "zeenat" except what is apparent. Hence they will be allowed to reveal their "normal/regular" voice for ordinary conversation purposes, but not allowed to reveal their "sensual" or "singing" voice as it is not apparent. Likewise, lowering the gaze would also include not continuing to listen to "sensual" or "singing" voices.

Just throwing this out to see what others think about this. It just came to mind and I have not yet formed any solid stance about this.

I have to highly disagree. Unless it is in the quran as a clear command, anything within reason goes. I agree with Huruf. 2185, I believe you want.

Mazhar

I have to highly disagree. Unless it is in the quran as a clear command, anything within reason goes. I agree with Huruf. 2185, I believe you want.{OPF}

Brother OPF,

If this is the logic then tomorrow someone could say there is no proibition in performing Zina since Quran has said do not go near Zina. The word "perform Zina" has not been used. When people are advised to lessen their gaze, i.e. avoid focussing the vision the cause is apparent and well understood because visual signal is known as the strogest signal that exictes certain cells of the body even there not being a will/deliberate desire {except those who are gone very cool}. Then women are advised to take care while walking so that their bosoms do not become reflective since it may exicte the cells of onlookers without their own desire/deliberate will. Satan was permitted to thrill people with voice; singing voice excites the cells to make them dance.

huruf

Brother OPF,
Satan was permitted to thrill people with voice; singing voice excites the cells to make them dance.

Again this reflects a very personal point of view and not a general perception or indication that the Quran in fact "means" that, which again would be an interpretation and a lot of stretching. But, if that were the case, I take it that singing male voices do also excite. Cannot see how they are less exciting than women voices. In fact looking at the tremendous inroads that male homosexuality is making nowadays I am sure that forbidding male public singing would be more pressing than any other musical curtailing. And according to the reasons that you give to stretch meanings, also grounded in the Quran. Modesty in men is not a choice but a
command.

Also what you say about going near zina, please state aya. It is clear that el zani y al ziniya are punished, that is not going near zina that is zina itself. So the comaprison you make is not valid. Again if you say the aleya number we may study it and get some uselful counsel. What is not in doubt is that zina, and not getting near it, is forbidden explicitly in the Quran.

Salaam

Mazhar

{Refer 1732}

A "distance" needs to be covered before actually performing Zina. And hope this distance/road/path is not to be measured in miles or kilometers but means certain things done that facilitates/propmts that thing.

{Refer 651}
How would it be interpreted {without stretching}?