Muslim women are permitted to sing in public according to the Qur'an
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I meant monotheist bands who make albums to be listened at home. Playing live is almost a wastage of electricity, etc. How do you guys find www.submissionradio.org ?
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Peace amuslim, all,
If singing is part of their beauty, is it therefore not to be displayed in public, except that which is necessary?
Well said. The command to women about "zeenat" is clear; what needs to be determined now is whether female singing is part of her "zeenat" or not. My personal opinion is that it is part of her "zeenat" and others are free to disagree with that.
I would also like to draw the attention of the readers to the fact that men are not commanded to hide their "zeenat" !! There is no command addressing men not to reveal their "zeenat" except that which is apparent, unless I am mistaken.
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I completely agree with you and add also that women's breathing it is part of their zeenat and they shouldn't breath in public, and in fact I propose that either men or women should be transferred to another planet to avoid exposure to women's zeenat. Men's virtue is in danger and women are qawwamaat over the men, therefore they must protect them from absolutely everything since men are powerless to control anything starting with themselves.
That is my opinion
Salaam
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I completely agree with you and add also that women's breathing it is part of their zeenat and they shouldn't breath in public, and in fact I propose that either men or women should be transferred to another planet to avoid exposure to women's zeenat. Men's virtue is in danger and women are qawwamaat over the men, therefore they must protect them from absolutely everything since men are powerless to control anything starting with themselves.
That is my opinion
Salaam
Now there is another way out if the first solution I proposed seems too radical, men can in fact become qawwamun over their own virtue and keep away from anything they feel will lead them to the wrong path. No need for them to sacrifice their very dear women (they are dear, aren't they?). They can keep away and let their women go anywhere they please, and watch women singers and sportswomen as the please in TV, finally women are not forbidden seeing (or was it hearing?) other women do whatever they want to do. Just keep away. It is so simple I wonder why it didn't occur to those who raise these questions. That is what I would do if I couldn't watch something and may companions want to see it. I would never spoil their fun, an still less their whole life long. That would be really oppresion.
As to the fact that men are not commanded to reveal their zeenat. Well either they don't have any, or if they have, they are allowed to parade it big way. What can I say? I am all for it. Let's get rolling. And please if some of you guys are going to do so, annouce where you are going to be in public so that women, without singing, of course, or even breathing, can see you, because that is not forbidden, you know, and finally no need to go and spend some dear money at Chipendales.
Please, brothers, and sisters, excuse me if I am being a little bit sarcastic, but, I mean, men should not be tempting me this way. I just, simply, miserably, cannot resist. They should not show their... whatever it is (egos, vanity, naivet?), but at any rate non zeenat (which is much allowed), in a public forum. Really, it is way too much excitement for a poor woman like me who has a very poor control, and something should be done about it, otherwise I am afraid that some sarcasm may slip now and and then. If that happens, I am sorry to say, nobody will be to blame but men themselves.
Salam, dear creatures, sepcially the unforbidden masculine ones
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Peace amuslim, all,
I would also like to draw the attention of the readers to the fact that men are not commanded to hide their "zeenat" !! There is no command addressing men not to reveal their "zeenat" except that which is apparent, unless I am mistaken.
Perhaps because they don't have any confused
And seriously, I understand from "zeenatahunna" is any thing related to women and specific to them, and could be revealed by how they walk or sit. Voice does not meet these critereon
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Now there is another way out if the first solution I proposed seems too radical, men can in fact become qawwamun over their own virtue and keep away from anything they feel will lead them to the wrong path. No need for them to sacrifice their very dear women (they are dear, aren't they?). They can keep away and let their women go anywhere they please, and watch women singers and sportswomen as the please in TV, finally women are not forbidden seeing (or was it hearing?) other women do whatever they want to do. Just keep away. It is so simple I wonder why it didn't occur to those who raise these questions. That is what I would do if I couldn't watch something and may companions want to see it. I would never spoil their fun, an still less their whole life long. That would be really oppresion.
As to the fact that men are not commanded to reveal their zeenat. Well either they don't have any, or if they have, they are allowed to parade it big way. What can I say? I am all for it. Let's get rolling. And please if some of you guys are going to do so, annouce where you are going to be in public so that women, without singing, of course, or even breathing, can see you, because that is not forbidden, you know, and finally no need to go and spend some dear money at Chipendales.
Please, brothers, and sisters, excuse me if I am being a little bit sarcastic, but, I mean, men should not be tempting me this way. I just, simply, miserably, cannot resist. They should not show their... whatever it is (egos, vanity, naivet?), but at any rate non zeenat (which is much allowed), in a public forum. Really, it is way too much excitement for a poor woman like me who has a very poor control, and something should be done about it, otherwise I am afraid that some sarcasm may slip now and and then. If that happens, I am sorry to say, nobody will be to blame but men themselves.
Salam, dear creatures, sepcially the unforbidden masculine ones.
Oh? I forgot! I know I may be getting on people's nerves by now, but I don't want this on my conscience. Well, I know we are all modern and all that, but on the other hand I know that this kind of thing is not everybody's cup of tea either, I mean, when men go out exercising their right to unforbiddenness, just watch out that there are no other men around. I mean, they may be straight, but it is chance and we already know how out of the question is for men to control their urges and you may find yourselves with more than you can handle. Of course, nobody would get pregnant, but still it might represent some psychological strain and fisical inconvenience. Although, I believe that there are support groups that help with this kind of thing if things got that far.
Otherwise, best of luck.Salaam
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Peace Samia, all,
Perhaps because they don't have any confused
Really ! Am I sensing some female chauvinism here ? What about the male chest, abs, etc. ?
I understand that the word "zeenat" is used for females but there has to be a male form of that word in Arabic. Is it "zayaan" or "zayn" ? I looked up Lane's in PRL under the root "zay-ya-nun" and the word "muzayyan" is used for a man. (As a side note, page 445 of LL in PRL under root "zay-ya-nun" is not accessible.)
If The God wanted men to hide their "zayaan"/"zayn" He would have said so clearly.
And seriously, I understand from "zeenatahunna" is any thing related to women and specific to them, and could be revealed by how they walk or sit. Voice does not meet these critereon
The red part in the quote above is subjective opinion, not an objective fact.
If "zeenatahunna" is any thing related to women and specific to them, and could be revealed by how they walk or sit (as per the blue part of the quote above), then the female voice is something related to women and specific to them (as per the pitch, timber, tone, envelope etc.), and can be revealed by how they speak. No one can contest that if a woman wants, she can produce a sexually provocative voice, and that voice would definitely be her hidden "zeenat". Her normal voice used in day to day speech, without being sexually provocative, would be her "zeenat" that she is allowed to reveal to everyone as per 2431, as it is "what is apparent".
As far as all the sarcastic comments in some of the above posts are concerned, they are all addressed by The God's commands to men to dress righteously, lower their gaze, cover their private parts, and not to commit or go near "fawaahish".
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If The God wanted men to hide their "zayaan"/"zayn" He would have said so clearly.
Did God create men? Check.
Do you feel shame at the thought of uncovering certain parts of your body in public? Check.
)
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If The God wanted men to hide their "zayaan"/"zayn" He would have said so clearly.
If God wanted to make singing, by either male or female subjecto to any restriction or include it in any unrelated definition He would have said so clearly.
Tanveer said
The red part in the quote above is subjective opinion, not an objective fact.
Now this is indeed a subjective and SELF SEEKING opinion about somebody else's opinion. Go and call all dictionnaries subjective and just do anything you want to with any word you care, since as it seems, for your mental make up anything goes. And Samia's opinion is NOT subjective, unless according to your mental make up, any woman's opinion is by definition subjective, and any male's objective. At any rate, your opinion is in fact neither subjective nor objective, it is not an opinion at all, it is pure AND WILD speculation for what I think, either subjectively or objectively, self seeking motives, and not a sincere wish to follow the Qur'an, because if this were so you would make your case quite differently.
On the other hand this cuestion has been discussed and you haven't added anything new to the debate, which if you had, it would have been interesting. Why keep insisting as if insistence were going to bring about any change in the nature of its object.
Salaam
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Peace Samia, all,
I understand that the word "zeenat" is used for females but there has to be a male form of that word in Arabic. Is it "zayaan" or "zayn" ? I looked up Lane's in PRL under the root "zay-ya-nun" and the word "muzayyan" is used for a man. (As a side note, page 445 of LL in PRL under root "zay-ya-nun" is not accessible.)
If The God wanted men to hide their "zayaan"/"zayn" He would have said so clearly.
Salaam Tanweer
"zeena" is a noun, and heappens to be feminine. No masculine forms for feminine words and vise-versa. A noun is either feminine or masculine. Adjectives, active/passive participles, names of professions change.
How about verse 3119? It's the advise of Luqman to his son, but clearly accepted by God, since God granted Luqman a great wisdom
"And be moderate in your walking and lower your voice. The most unacceptable of all voices is that of donkeys".
So please don't tell me God meant that women are these donkeys!! -
Some males occupy territory with their loud voices, they laugh out loud, suppress the sound of others' voices, and say jokes or whatever in a loud voice as to catch everyone's attention. They try hard and think big of themselves. I see God advising against this
3117 ?O my dear son! Be constant in prayer, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and bear in patience whatever may befall thee this, behold, is something to set one?s heart upon!
3118 ?And turn not thy cheek away from people in pride, and walk not haughtily on earth for, behold, God does not love anyone who, out of self- conceit, acts in a boastful manner.
3119 ?Hence, be modest in thy bearing, and lower thy voice for, behold, the ugliest of all voices is the voice of asses??This is general advice and therefore also goes for women. If it wasn't important, it wouldn't have been in the Quran. You can see the lesson for yourself. Donkey's have loud, constant voices and humans should not be like that. They should lower their voices and be modest as opposed to raising your voice and shouting or yelling when talking.
Imagine loud guys and girls on the train or in your workplace etc. it's disrespectful and there's no reason for it other than drawing unnessessary attention to oneself.
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3332 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any of the women, provided that you remain conscious of God. Hence, be not over-soft in your speech, lest any whose heart is diseased should be moved to desire but, withal, speak in a kindly way.
It's true that this is addressed to the women of the prophet and not other believing or non-believing women. However, since it is in the Quran for the rest of humanity to read, then it must serve a purpose. Of course, the Quran is full of examples, and we can take them as an example of women whose house must have been full of people since society wanted to go to their house and learn things from them. (apply this to today's life if somebody has read the BOOK before you and you always went to his house to ask him things ... you will constantly face his wife).
sun
I understand the verse as saying Wives of the prophet, you are not like other women that you became conscious of God, so do not be nice in your words thus becomes greedy whoever is in his heart a disease, and say knowledgeable (rightious) words.
What's so hard to understand about that? If they said nice, sweet words to people who have disease in their hearts, they would be greedy for more and more ... this is not the purpose of people coming over to prophet's house, they should be talking words of rightiousness / religious knowlege.
(qawl maaroof) as opposed to kind words that you would say to your parents (qawl kareem). Women can be too nice when they talk and people may not deserve such words.As for singing, there is nothing wrong with singing for God / rightious matters. The industry is screwed up and it's all about image and gossip and sex appeal so it's hard to see it in a positive light. But there are decent women who participate in anasheed / songs / ballads about religion, national pride, love for their country etc. there's nothing wrong with that.
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Peace p4l, the donkey verse gave me courage against those who mock me.
me too. Alhamdu lillah. it's good isn't it? sun
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Salaam alaikum.
Peace,
While I think that a lot of your article makes sense, shouldnt women also take notice to the fact of men with "disease in their hearts" and do what they can not to conjure it up? I dont see why women shouldnt try and emulate the wives of the prophets just because it was directed at the wives. Its like saying we shouldnt try and live like the prophets because they were unique.
Peace
I dont agree with your understanding. We follow the God-consciousness of the Prophet's and all righteous people mentioned in the Qur'an. However we DON'T follow specific commandments for who they were ie. Prophets or wives of the Prophet.
Emulating specific commandments to the wives of the Prophet's therefore mean nothing. If you mean their God-consciousness, then yes. But specific criterias explicitly stated to be only for them are only for them.
AceOfHearts,
So you agree that the God-consciousness of the nabi's wives is to be emulated? Well, not being soft in speech is also a part of their God-consciousness. The verse says "...If you practice taqwa(God-consciousness/self-preservation), do not be soft in speech..."
Therefore, the order extends to all women who practice taqwa.
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I wrote that piece long ago. Here are my views
"Those with a disease in their hearts" REFERS TO ALL PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY ARE MUSLIMS BUT HAVE ELEMENTS OF DISBELIEF IN THEIR HEARTS ie. hypocrites.
Note Its NOT "be not soft in voice"....its "Qawl"....speach, or the words being stated.
Here is what the Verse means from the above Do not give into the hypocrites ploys and tricks, choose your words carefully...ie. speak ma'ruf as the following bit of the Verse states.
This is in conformity with the Qur'an's constant command to not give into the hyporcites in other Verses.
In conclusion, this Verse has nothing to do with the voice or softening the voice at all, rather be careful to not give into hyporcites.
peace.
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I wrote that piece long ago. Here are my views
"Those with a disease in their hearts" REFERS TO ALL PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY ARE MUSLIMS BUT HAVE ELEMENTS OF DISBELIEF IN THEIR HEARTS ie. hypocrites.
Note Its NOT "be not soft in voice"....its "Qawl"....speach, or the words being stated.
Here is what the Verse means from the above Do not give into the hypocrites ploys and tricks, choose your words carefully...ie. speak ma'ruf as the following bit of the Verse states.
This is in conformity with the Qur'an's constant command to not give into the hyporcites in other Verses.
In conclusion, this Verse has nothing to do with the voice or softening the voice at all, rather be careful to not give into hyporcites.
peace.
Peace,
Aha so you mean the hypocrites use to talk in soft words and paint things up but it has nothing to do about normal peoples voices!?
Maria
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Salam Sister Majidah,
Yes, thats what I mean.
Here is another piece of information. When one studies the Qur'an, it can be seen that the therm "disease in the hearts" have been exclusively used in the Qur'an to refer to hyprcitical people. When I did some research, I believe I found up to 6 instances, and that was not a through research. There is a CONSISTANT correlelation.
Therefore, there is no reason to assume that "those with a disease in the hearts" in this Verse under discussion here is refering to any other than the hypocrites. Its just a different way to refer to hypocrites as this is how the Qur'an has used the very term all the way several times through out the Qur'an.
You will also find Verses which tell us and the Prophet to not to obey the hypocrites, and this Verse is telling the wives of the Prophet to not do this. It has nothing to do with softenig the voice, but rather it is to do with choosing words. Thats all.
I am eager to hear other people's views on this.
Regards.