Menstruating women praying and fasting
-
Salam,
Here is one translation,
56 O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.
cleanse if you've been to the toilet is already mentioned (ja'a ahadun minkum min algha-et)
sexual intercourse is already mentioned (laamastum annisaa)
if you were junuban thus means something different .. e.g. ejtanibooh in 590590 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
If you do not ejtanibooh (avoid alcohol or intoxicants) then you must be junub ... so get cleansed/ rid of it (ettahharoo)
So junuban must mean state of being intoxicated or drunk or whatever .. remember the reference again in the Quran where Allah says do not go to pray if you are drunk/off your head so that you know what you are saying.
so anyway, where do we forbid women from praying during menstruation?
-
From these two last messages I reason that in fact junuban means roughly and simplifying "without having kept aside of those things from which you should have kept aside"and for which indeed you should purify before salat,
which effectively would rule out menstruation, since there is now way that one should keep aside of it. Would that make sense?Salaam
-
very smart huruf D you can't junub (side from / avoid) menstruation.
It all makes sense now.Junub is when you haven't avoided what God told you to be junub from (alcohol , drugs , intoxicants ) etc. ejtanibooh sun
-
I think that everything in this question revolves on the reason the Quran gives to keep off the wife during menses. It says that not doing so is harmful. Que cuestion should be where is the harm? Sister Latiffa is trying to find out and points to a possibility. I don't know what to say, but I think it is legitimate to try to find out in what way it is harmful. So we have had an article saying that blood is a vehicle for contagion, Latifah says it may be harmful for the woman on account of roughness...
I don't think we should immediately jump to conclusions as to anybody wanting to go against the Quran. We are practically discovering it now some of us for the second time. If we do it with due humility and trust in God, it should be a blessing, we are not barred from reflecting on it.Salaam
when you dont know a verse you are allowed to DISCUSS it HOWEVER at the same time you have rejected all the hadeeths because some have been fabricated why not discuss them and follow the ones that are valid?
-
isn't junuban referring to that if you have gone to the toilet then get cleansed before praying?
It is unlikely that God would create women to menstruate every month and forbid them from praying and fasting because of something that is beyond their control .. then what? you have to make up for all these days you haven't prayed and fasted?
In another verse if a man had sex and couldn't find water then he can do tayammum (with dirt/sand) and still pray so ?????
someone told me that you're not allowed to pray if your hair is wet .. Oh but you can pray if you have cat hair on you. There are many rediculous rules such as women can't pray if they're wearing pants .. it must be a long skirt etc.
please comment
It is unlikely that Allah has put feelings in us and then forbids us to have sex before marriage
It is unlikely that Allah has made some people gay (well Allah hasnt made them gays but Allah can prevent it if He wants to) and then forbids them to act on it
It is unlikely that Allah has given us pubic hairs yet He wants us to shave it
It is unlikely that We have wet dreams and such and yet Allah wants us to clean ourselves before praying if we have wet dreams (or have sex)
It is unlikely that Allah has given us free will yet He wants us to obey HIM and will punish if we dont believe into HIM?
It is unlikely that Allah has given us so a choice of so many foods that can be eaten YET forbidden us to eat some (pork and carnivore animals)?
and on and on...You cannot say that these rules are ridiculous.. you are insulting your LORD, ALLAH.. you can rephrase as saying "please explain" or "WHY" etc but you cant call them ridiculous... is this where your progressiveness has taken you? Maybe its because you dont take hadeeths to be valid you are falling short on explanations and reasoning..
-
when you dont know a verse you are allowed to DISCUSS it HOWEVER at the same time you have rejected all the hadeeths because some have been fabricated why not discuss them and follow the ones that are valid?
It's like taking good examples out of pornos. So you agree 'some are fabricated' but somehow the rest are okay?1 What kind of logic is that. If you were reading a book, and you KNEW just ONE thing was a proven lie (and we have more than one example), why would you believe anything else in that book? You would conclude successfully that the author is a liar and is not to be trusted.
-
As Salaamu Alaikum all,
From http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14102.0
- PHYSICAL PREPARATION FOR; OR UNREADINESS FOR AS-SALAAT
We will begin with one of the ayah used in the last section, 443, on how Allah tells us to be physically prepared for As-Salaat. We will use three ayah that we are aware of that deal with the aspect of physical preparedness for As-Salaat. Several key words such as ?ghusl? and ?tahharah? in their various grammatical forms for usage will be pointed out to denote the guidance given to the believer.
Ghasala verb form I ~ to wash
b) impf. act. (yaghtasilu)
{43}
Transliteration Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la taqraboo alssalata waantum sukara hatta taAAlamoo ma taqooloona wala junuban illa AAabiree sabeelin hatta taghtasiloo wa-in kuntum marda aw AAala safarin aw jaa ahadun minkum mina algha-iti aw lamastumu alnnisaa falam tajidoo maan fatayammamoo saAAeedan tayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum inna Allaha kana AAafuwwan ghafooran
Literal You, you those who believed, do not approach the prayers and you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying, and nor distant from God/impure, except crossing a road/way, until you wash yourselves with water, and if you were sick/diseased or on a long distance travel, or any of you came from the safe and hidden depression in ground used for human discharge (toilet) or you touched repeatedly/touched and felt repeatedly (could mean had intercourse with) the women, so you did not find water, so wipe your hands and face with dust, pure/good dust, so wipe with your faces and your hands, that God was/is often forgiving/pardoning, forgiving.
O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.The important aspects of this ayat regarding physical preparation for As-Salaat can be pointed out to be those of physical purity. In this ayat, Allah gives us the command to ?taghtasiloo?, or to ?wash? if we are in a state of impurity, except when traveling; before approaching As-Salaat. ?How to wash? is not yet explained to the believer, but will be done so by Allah in another ayat. This ayat continues with the command to ?tayammamoo?, or to use clean sand, earth, or dust to wipe your faces and your hands with if, you are on a journey, have used the bathroom, or you have been in contact with women, and you can find no water.
c) impv. (ighsil)
{6}
Transliteration Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni wa-in kuntum junuban faittahharoo wa-in kuntum marda aw AAala safarin aw jaa ahadun minkum mina algha-iti aw lamastumu alnnisaa falam tajidoo maan fatayammamoo saAAeedan tayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum minhu ma yureedu Allahu liyajAAala AAalaykum min harajin walakin yureedu liyutahhirakum waliyutimma niAAmatahu AAalaykum laAAallakum tashkuroona
Literal You, you those who believed, if you started/got up to the prayers, so wash with water your faces, and your hands to the elbows, and rub/wipe with your heads and your feet to the two joints/ankle bones, and if you wereimpure/unclean, so be purified/cleaned, and if you were sick/diseased or on (a) journey/trip/voyage or one of you came from the safe hidden depression in the ground (toilet), or you touched and felt repeatedly the women, so you did not find water, so wipe your hands and face with dust good/pure dust, so rub/wipe with your faces and your hands from it, God does not want to make/put on you strain/hardship, and but He wants to purify you mentally and physically and to complete (E) His blessing on you, maybe/perhaps you thank/be grateful.
O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.This ayat is more specific in that Allah tells us exactly how to make ?ghusl? to prepare physically for As-Salaat. The first command is ?faghsiloo?, or ?wash? your faces. Continuing in that command is the order to also ?wash? your hands to the elbows, which includes your forearms obviously. Then Allah tells the believers ?wamsaHoo?, or to rub or wipe clean our heads and feet up to the ankles.
Allah gives us a new command here for the state of ?junub?, also termed ceremonial impurity; which is ?faT-Tah-haroo?, or to bath your whole body. This command is for any believer that is in a state of ?junnub?, i.e. one that necessitates ?tah-haroo?, or bathing completely.
Allah again completes and restates His Mercy upon us by stating that if we are ill, on a journey, have relieved ourselves by nature, or have been in contact with women and don?t find water to perform the above functions; we are commanded ?fatay-yam-mamoo?, or to clean with sand, earth or dust our faces and hands before starting As-Salaat. Allah tells us the He gives us this Mercy because He does not want to make the Deen difficult on us, He wants to purify or cleanse us, and that He wants to complete His Blessings on us so that maybe we will become grateful!
Tahara verb form I ~ to be or become clean or pure
b) impf. act. (yaThuru)
Tahhara verb form II ~ to purify, to cleanse. (n. vb.) purification, cleansing. (pcple. act.) one who purifies or cleanses. (pcple. pass.) purified, clean.
b) impf. act. (yuTahhiru)
taTahhara verb form V ~ to be purified; to cleanse oneself, to keep oneself clean. (pcple. act.) one who cleanses himself.
a) perf. act. (taTahharna)
c) impv. (iTTahar for TaTahhar)
d) pcple. act. (mutaTahhir and muTTahir)
{222}
Transliteration Wayas-aloonaka AAani almaheedi qul huwa athan faiAAtaziloo alnnisaa fee almaheedi wala taqraboohunna hatta yathurna fa-itha tatahharna fa/toohunna min haythu amarakumu Allahu inna Allaha yuhibbu alttawwabeena wayuhibbu almutatahhireena
Literal And they ask/question you about the menstruation, say "It is mild harm, so separate/withdraw the women in the menstruation, and do not approach them (F) until they be cleaned/purified, so if they became cleaned/purified, so come to them (F), from where/when God ordered you, that God loves/likes the repentant, and He loves/likes the pure/clean.
They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say They are a hurt and a pollution So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.This ayat is important to physical preparedness before As-Salaat because of it?s implication for women. This ayat tells men not to approach women during their menstrual cycles or post birth bleeding, ?Al-MaHeeD?; until they have cleansed or purified themselves thereof, ?yathurna?. And when they have cleansed or purified themselves, ?ta-Tah-harna?, then men can approach their wives in the ways approved of by Allah. This is very important because it connects the state of ?Al-MaHeeD?, or menstruation and post birth bleeding, as one necessitating ?tah-hara? or cleansing and purification. Allah has told us in the last ayat given, 56, that we should not approach As-Salaat in a state necessitating ?tah-hara?. So this establishes from the Qur?an that women are exempted from As-Salaat as long as they are in a state of ?Al-MaHeed? as a Mercy to them from Allah!
An important point needs to be made here about this special Mercy given to women by Allah. It specifically deals with the state of bleeding dealing with the womb and the birthing function of women. This is the method by which Allah has chosen to continue the chain of human life on earth. The wombs are told to be reverenced in Sura 4 ayat 1. Allah shows us how He has reverenced the wombs of women and their importance by giving them a special permission to not have to perform As-Salaat because of this state. This does not in any way denote a ?defiency? in a female?s religion as is commonly stated or believed. That would clearly be against the Qur?an, since Allah has told us to reverence the wombs that bore us. Also the word for the womb itself, ?Al-ArHaam?, comes from the word ?RaHma?, which means mercy. ?RaHma? is the root word of the two most used attributes of Allah, Ar-RaHmaan and Ar-RaHeem!
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
It is unlikely that Allah has put feelings in us and then forbids us to have sex before marriage
It is unlikely that Allah has made some people gay (well Allah hasnt made them gays but Allah can prevent it if He wants to) and then forbids them to act on it
It is unlikely that Allah has given us pubic hairs yet He wants us to shave it
It is unlikely that We have wet dreams and such and yet Allah wants us to clean ourselves before praying if we have wet dreams (or have sex)
It is unlikely that Allah has given us free will yet He wants us to obey HIM and will punish if we dont believe into HIM?
It is unlikely that Allah has given us so a choice of so many foods that can be eaten YET forbidden us to eat some (pork and carnivore animals)?
and on and on...You cannot say that these rules are ridiculous.. you are insulting your LORD, ALLAH.. you can rephrase as saying "please explain" or "WHY" etc but you cant call them ridiculous... is this where your progressiveness has taken you? Maybe its because you dont take hadeeths to be valid you are falling short on explanations and reasoning..
Salam,
I totally disagree with you because you keep mentioning things about God that you have no knowledge of.
Free will we have got so we can create the life we want with the help of the scriptures guidence.
Being gay, is a cause of your own free will and you can turn and become heterosexuell if you really want it strong enough.
Ban of some food is only an advice for our own good, our healths sake.
Sex before marriage is also similiar to that of food, it's what is best for us. keep to one partner and be careful to spread your seed and so on, nothing strange I think.And The punishment if we not obey our Lord, well if you instead turn the sentence and put it as "If you not obey your own inner voice" yes, then you will go against yourself and that is a punishment itself.
You are the master of your thoughts, The God or Universe only give you the feedback, so why blame something you have create on your own!?
That is so classical to point fingers and blame the faults on others, when in fact you are the one who can change this and turn the whole deal if you want.
Maria
-
Salaam IQO
As Salaamu Alaikum all,
Allah shows us how He has reverenced the wombs of women and their importance by giving them a special permission to not have to perform As-Salaat because of this state.
LIke the reverence He shows to the "sukaaraa" and those coming from nature's call? Come on! Instead of this lengthy post, you could have just added "or menustrating" to verse 443, because this is exactly what you are doing adding extra information, as if God forgot to say that when He told us when to wash before salaat, and again when He discussed the menses.
-
Without prejudice to the rest of things, is not this translation/perception of the word used in the verse more accurate as suggested by sister than the word "harmful"
I believe that the Almighty warns the men of the
pain and agony (both mentally and physically) that menstruation causes. -
Quote Imamquranonly
"""This ayat is important to physical preparedness before As-Salaat because of it?s implication for women. This ayat tells men not to approach women during their menstrual cycles or post birth bleeding, ?Al-MaHeeD?; until they have cleansed or purified themselves thereof, ?yathurna?. And when they have cleansed or purified themselves, ?ta-Tah-harna?, then men can approach their wives in the ways approved of by Allah. This is very important because it connects the state of ?Al-MaHeeD?, or menstruation and post birth bleeding, as one necessitating ?tah-hara? or cleansing and purification. Allah has told us in the last ayat given, 56, that we should not approach As-Salaat in a state necessitating ?tah-hara?. So this establishes from the Qur?an that women are exempted from As-Salaat as long as they are in a state of ?Al-MaHeed? as a Mercy to them from Allah!
"""I am not satisfied with this explanation, because what it in fact says is that women purify themselves not for salaat but in order to have intercourse, which is absurd, since in order to make salaat after intercourse purification would be necessary. No need or obligation in the qur'an to bath before intercourse for it to be valid, therefore this tahhara here must mean get rid of the blood and possibly wash that part which might be soiled, but I don't think it is possible to assimilate to any tahhara previous to salaat. Intercourse sure may be godly but it is not salaat.
Salaam
-
As Salaamu Alaika Samia,
Salaam IQO
LIke the reverence He shows to the "sukaaraa" and those coming from nature's call? Come on! Instead of this lengthy post, you could have just added "or menustrating" to verse 443, because this is exactly what you are doing adding extra information, as if God forgot to say that when He told us when to wash before salaat, and again when He discussed the menses.
Im not comparing a woman menstruating to going to the bathroom, although both are natural processes and nothing to be ashamed of or seen as a defect.
The reason for the lengthy post is to show how Allah gives us "signs" so that those who "study" the message can "understand" many things given to us as guidance because Allah has told us that He has "detailed" it for us. So by paying attention to the details of things, i.e. usage of words by Allah and their "connections", we can ascertain guidance for matters in our life. Everything doesn't have to be spelled out in "black and white" in order for it to be guidance. This is why I believe Allah says the guidance is for those who earnestly study the book.
I am not adding any information to what Allah gave in Al Quran. I clearly quoted the ayaat in arabic with transliteration and translations for those that don't understand all the arabic completely. What I gave was my understanding of the implications of those ayaat, that is not adding to Allah's book. If you don't like the understanding I have, that is okay; but to accuse me of adding to what Allah has said when I clearly gave His ayaat and then my understanding....well I don't think that is a fair accusation to say the least!
Also I don't think, well actually I know that Allah didn't forget to tell us anything in Al Quran. I hope that you don't think that you understand ALL of it already and at this point in your life. Just because you don't understand something that is given, or the way that it is given, doesn't mean that Allah didn't give you guidance for the matter for those who study and understand.
Sister Samia, I think you need to be patient when you respond to issues regarding women in this forum. It is clear that you have a serious personal issue with the treatment of women and the understandings surrounding women's issues in Al Quran. I can understand that. Women have been oppressed for ages throughout history. But this position of yours has caused you to make many statements and conclusions on the forum that have clearly been proven erroneous and biased in an effort for you to try and "protect" women's rights, I guess. A lot of time, your sarcasm becomes apparent and you have continued to refuse to admit when you are wrong when others have proved it beyond reasonable doubt, in many of the previous threads that I have read. Sometimes it takes away from your credibility and the value that you actually have to offer to this forum when you are being more rational and less emotional; as others have also pointed out.
My sincere advice as a forum friend is to not take the issues so personal so that you feel that you are "defending" them, but rather to just discuss the logic or comprehensive understanding of what can be learned from the guidance given. All in all, take this with a grain of salt, so to speak.
As Salaamu Alaikum all, peace
-
Quote Imamquranonly
"""This ayat is important to physical preparedness before As-Salaat because of it?s implication for women. This ayat tells men not to approach women during their menstrual cycles or post birth bleeding, ?Al-MaHeeD?; until they have cleansed or purified themselves thereof, ?yathurna?. And when they have cleansed or purified themselves, ?ta-Tah-harna?, then men can approach their wives in the ways approved of by Allah. This is very important because it connects the state of ?Al-MaHeeD?, or menstruation and post birth bleeding, as one necessitating ?tah-hara? or cleansing and purification. Allah has told us in the last ayat given, 56, that we should not approach As-Salaat in a state necessitating ?tah-hara?. So this establishes from the Qur?an that women are exempted from As-Salaat as long as they are in a state of ?Al-MaHeed? as a Mercy to them from Allah!
"""I am not satisfied with this explanation, because what it in fact says is that women purify themselves not for salaat but in order to have intercourse, which is absurd, since in order to make salaat after intercourse purification would be necessary. No need or obligation in the qur'an to bath before intercourse for it to be valid, therefore this tahhara here must mean get rid of the blood and possibly wash that part which might be soiled, but I don't think it is possible to assimilate to any tahhara previous to salaat. Intercourse sure may be godly but it is not salaat.
Salaam
I don't think it is absurd at all to think that women need to make "tahara" before having intercourse after having their menses. Do you really that is absurd? You woudn't mind your woman not cleaning herself before having intercourse after bleeding for three to 7 days, or up to 45 days after giving birth? I also think that husbands and wives both expect their spouses to clean their private areas after going to the restroom to relieve themselves of nature. Menstruating is another "natural" process of relieving a woman's body of excess that is no longer needed. I see this as natural.
The fact that "tahara" is also needed to be performed after sexual intercourse is not the reason for my conclusion. The point is that ANY condition necessitating "tahara" would mean that until "tahara" is performed, Salaat is not recommended, as the ayaat (443 and 56) say if you read then carefully again and consider them together.
If you research "tahara" from Al Quran, you hopefully will get the fuller undestanding that this is not just "cleaning" the woman's vagina after bleeding, but you will get the understanding of more of a full body bathing such as would be given if you were out in a heavy rain to be purified by it, i.e. the whole of the body from head to toe being washed by pure water.
Im not sure where from this you got the perception that I was implicating that there was a need for a full bath before intercourse in order for it to be valid, in general. I am saying that a full bath is being told to be done after a woman experiences "al maHeed", before having intercourse; and also therefore before performing As Salaat because it is condition that necessitates "tahara". If Allah tells you to make "tahara" before performing As Salaat when necessary, then a condition such as "al maHeed" which He tells you necessitates "tahara", would preclude you from performing As Salaat until such time as you are able to fulfill "tahara". This is my current understanding from considering the signs in all the ayaat that I have mentioned regarding this subject.
Where you got the idea that I was making intercourse equal to Salaat is beyond my understanding! Making some type of connection, does not make something equal.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
Salaam IQO
Im not comparing a woman menstruating to going to the bathroom, although both are natural processes and nothing to be ashamed of or seen as a defect.
Where did I say you are comparing? I am trying to make you understand the error you are making when you are trying to justify your conclusion with some sugar coating.
The reason for the lengthy post is to show how Allah gives us "signs"
God did not use signs or metaphore when He told us when to not perform salaat. He did not use signs to give answers about menses. You are the one who are seeing signs when there aren't any.
I am not adding any information to what Allah gave in Al Quran.
Here is the extra information
Allah shows us how He has reverenced the wombs of women and their importance by giving them a special permission to not have to perform As-Salaat because of this state.
Where's this permission? It's your own preconceived conclusion.
I hope that you don't think that you understand ALL of it already and at this point in your life.
So if I do not agree with your understanding, I have to have understood the whole quraan? What makes you think that I think so? So you understood it all and started to see signs that many haven't seen!!
It is clear that you have a serious personal issue with the treatment of women and the understandings surrounding women's issues in Al Quran.
I have no issues with the qur'aan. It's very fine with me, because I read it through the attributes of God. I have issues with people who think they got rid of the traditional humiliating teachings regarding women, and all they do is try to bend the qur'aan to accommodate this undertsanding. They got rid of the books, but it seems their brains are washed beyond repair.
My sincere advice as a forum friend is to not take the issues so personal
I think you need to be patient when you respond to issues regarding women in this forum
But this position of yours has caused you to make many statements and conclusions on the forum that have clearly been proven erroneous and biased in an effort for you to try and "protect" women's rights, I guess. A lot of time, your sarcasm becomes apparent and you have continued to refuse to admit when you are wrong when others have proved it beyond reasonable doubt, in many of the previous threads that I have read
Please keep your responses to what I wrote and revert from this tendency to analyse my personality.
-
I have no issues with the qur'aan. It's very fine with me, because I read it through the attributes of God. I have issues with people who think they got rid of the traditional humiliating teachings regarding women, and all they do is try to bend the qur'aan to accommodate this undertsanding. They got rid of the books, but it seems their brains are washed beyond repair.
;D
-
Salaam IQO
Where did I say you are comparing? I am trying to make you understand the error you are making when you are trying to justify your conclusion with some sugar coating.Where did I say that you said I was comparing? I simply said I was not comparing, not that "you" said I was comparing. You can't make me understand whatever error you think there is and that you think I "sugar coated"; basically because I believe what I have studied and you haven't presented any solid Quranic reasoning to refute in IMHO.
God did not use signs or metaphore when He told us when to not perform salaat. He did not use signs to give answers about menses. You are the one who are seeing signs when there aren't any.
So you don't believe that Allah uses signs and/or metaphors in Al Quran to teach and guide us? Is this your evidence about why my conclusions are wrong?
Here is the extra information
Where's this permission? It's your own preconceived conclusion.I admitted that the issue about women not praying are "my" conclusions based upon my understandings of Al Quran. If you take that statement you quoted out of context with the rest, then it is you making it seem as if I am trying to add to Al Quran. Saying Allah said something because of your understanding of certain ayaat is not adding to Al Quran, especially when you give the full ayaat itself to allow the reader to reach their own conclusions if they disagree with you. Adding to Al Quran would be adding new ayaat.
So if I do not agree with your understanding, I have to have understood the whole quraan? What makes you think that I think so? So you understood it all and started to see signs that many haven't seen!!
I didn't say that or imply it, only it is what you chose to understand. I simply said I hope that you don't believe...well you have the quote to read it exactly. I also never said that I understand it all, but yes...it is possible for many of us to see and understand signs that others don't see yet; that is one of the purposes and points of this forum, to share that information.
I have no issues with the qur'aan. It's very fine with me, because I read it through the attributes of God. I have issues with people who think they got rid of the traditional humiliating teachings regarding women, and all they do is try to bend the qur'aan to accommodate this undertsanding. They got rid of the books, but it seems their brains are washed beyond repair.
I don't think it is humiliating for Allah to say that women are not obligated to perform As Salaat during "al maHeed", I think that is a Mercy. If you feel it is humiliating, that is your own perception and whoever else feels the same as you. Regarding other humiliating teachings regarding women, Al Quran only humiliates those who oppose Allah and His guidance; that includes men and women, but not as a sex or group, but as individuals who act opposingly as such. Your perception of what is left in my brain, or anyone elses due to other books; is your own perception since you have no idea what other books I ever believed in to begin with. If you knew me personally, you wouldn't have made such an accusation since I have been against hadeeth from the first day I ever heard about them; I have been a Quran only scripture follower since before I even knew that is what I was (as people call it now).
Please keep your responses to what I wrote and revert from this tendency for analysing my personality.
The statements in question that you reference, if you read them carefully, are not so much as analysing your peronality as they are in giving sincere advice. It is more fact about what has happened here on the forum than it is an analysis.
Finally, if you don't like what I say or my conclusions, it's okay with me. Many will not agree with them. But just as you do, I have a right to post them here for those who do see it the same way as I do. You can ignore my posts if it makes you feel better. There are many others that are saying far worse than my understandings of Al Quran.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
I don't think it is absurd at all to think that women need to make "tahara" before having intercourse after having their menses. Do you really that is absurd? You woudn't mind your woman not cleaning herself before having intercourse after bleeding for three to 7 days, or up to 45 days after giving birth? I also think that husbands and wives both expect their spouses to clean their private areas after going to the restroom to relieve themselves of nature. Menstruating is another "natural" process of relieving a woman's body of excess that is no longer needed. I see this as natural.
Precisely, precisely, Imamquranonly. You have got what I mean, but do not seem to draw what I see as the logical conclusion. You have to choose, whether tahhara here is either cleanliness or "ritual purity". It cannot be ritual purity, unless you think that sexual intercourse demands ritual purity. So it is cleanliness. What I understand you mean is that it is both. But it cannot be both, because it is about sexual intercourse it is talking, and only about it. There is nothing in this aya that hints at anything else because it is saying "go ahead with it and have intercourse", it doesn't say "let her do first salaat and then have intercourse", in which case I might see it as you see it. But such as it, I cannot see how you can get around the, for me, obvious impossibility of applying it to salaat, and that therefore it is "ritual purification" what is meant.
Salaam
-
And put a condition that husbands should not do intercourse with their wives till such time wives have made themselves ?tahar? after completion of menstruation. This evidently implies that during menstruation they were not ?tahar?.
Similarly those husbands and wives who have indulged in intercourse are not considered ?tahar? until they have taken bath.And they are prohibited to go near the ?salat/prayer? in the state of body which is not ?tahar?.
And Lut alaihissalam had said that only the wives are ?tahar? for sex.
And there is a condition that only those who are in ?tahar? state shall touch the Quran.