Do women have equal rights?
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NO! it does not.
I think it is a matter of outlook and reference point. If you start from the unquestionned conviction that men have the upper hand, anything you read will be interpreted from that point of view and will suport it, even if you have to come with utter nonsense to do that
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The Quran enjoins equity all over the place, but where it says in one aya on marriage questions mithluma 3alaiha, it is the same rights as those over her. So, yes, equal rights, not equitable rights, there is no missing the point or circumventing it. Of course, equal rights should be equitable.
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Samia
Quote from huruf on November 02, 2007, 041143 AM
I think it is a matter of outlook and reference point. If you start from the unquestionned conviction that men have the upper hand, anything you read will be interpreted from that point of view and will suport it, even if you have to come with utter nonsense to do thatI will slightly like to change the above statement
I think it is a matter of outlook and reference point. If you start from the unquestionned conviction that men and women should have equal rights impressed by European understanding, anything you read will be interpreted from that point of view and will suport it, even if you have to come with utter nonsense to do that.
But the reality is Quran doesnot talk about equal rights for Man and Woman, Quran doesnot say any thing which is unnatural.
Iron Sky has just explained it quite good.
Thanks.
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Samia
I will slightly like to change the above statementI think it is a matter of outlook and reference point. If you start from the unquestionned conviction that men and women should have equal rights impressed by European understanding, anything you read will be interpreted from that point of view and will suport it, even if you have to come with utter nonsense to do that.
Iron Sky has just explained it quite good.
Thanks.
Salaam Raj-ah
What's wrong with taking or adopting anything European/Western if it is good? Do we just realize "the evil" West when it comes to women's rights, but all we eat, drink, wear, commute and communicate with, read, watch, ruled by ...is European? Do we have to start from the invention of the wheel, and from where we stopped 14 centuries ago and start opposing women's sale in the slave market!!!
To you and to Kurt, please give me examples of RIGHTS exclusively for men that a woman is deprived of as a human, and how the Europeans gave her these rights, and the quraan has not explicitly prohibited, in a way that seeking them is a clear breach of our following the command of God.
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Peace to all,
Sorry sister Samia if I offended you, I wasnt trying to say woman arent equal to men, and I dont believe we have rights that woman shouldnt also have, I was trying to explain how we may have different duties, skills, or capacities. There are verses in the Quran that say woman and men are equal, so that is also my position, I think I just explained myself to poorly. Maybe this article will help explain what I meant.
http//www.submission.org/islam/faq7.htmlKurt
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I will slightly like to change the above statement
I think it is a matter of outlook and reference point. If you start from the unquestionned conviction that men and women should have equal rights impressed by European understanding, anything you read will be interpreted from that point of view and will suport it, even if you have to come with utter nonsense to do that.
So, yes, let us improve the above statement a little more, so it would read
I think it is a matter of outlook and reference point. If you start from the unquestionned conviction that men and women should have very different rights impressed by the hinduist, pagan, jewish and christian understanding, anything you read will be interpreted from that point of view and will suport it, even if you have to come with utter nonsense to do that.
Now let us not play silly games
European did not invent rights, nor equality, in fact they have had unconceivably cruel and unfair laws against women, so if a European or any other person comes up with equality, it is not because they are Europeans or from Antartida, but because they have had the moral character to do so, the same as there are non Europeans, even Arabs, Pakistanis and Indians who also have had the character to do so, and questioning and reflecting and studying have come to realise that God, in the Qur'an, also says so. Because that is the way God has created us.
Now in aya 2.228 when it says
wa lihunna mithlu allathy 3alaihinna bilma3aruf, how can you make it to say anything but that they have the same rights over men as those that men have over them.Now, may be you think that since they have different preproductive burdens, that should result in different rights. Well no. Of course, women have the right to be maintained on account of their reproductive burden, but that is not an axclusive right. Anybody who takes on a disproportionate burden of something in society should have appropriate acknowledgement and compensation. In the case of reproduction almost always the burden is born by women, but it is in turn a particular case of the more general one that to every female and to every male what they have earned.
Like Samia, I ask you to, please, explain rights that are different, according to you, for men and women as stated in the truthful Qur'an.
Thanks Iron Sky for explanation
Salaam
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Salaam Raj-ah
What's wrong with taking or adopting anything European/Western if it is good? Do we just realize "the evil" West when it comes to women's rights, but all we eat, drink, wear, commute and communicate with, read, watch, ruled by ...is European? Do we have to start from the invention of the wheel, and from where we stopped 14 centuries ago and start opposing women's sale in the slave market!!!
To you and to Kurt, please give me examples of RIGHTS exclusively for men that a woman is deprived of as a human, and how the Europeans gave her these rights, and the quraan has not explicitly prohibited, in a way that seeking them is a clear breach of our following the command of God.
If we talk about a Sunni POV, then the right to multiple sexual partners
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huruf
Now let us not play silly games
European did not invent rights, nor equality, in fact they have had unconceivably cruel and unfair laws against women, so if a European or any other person comes up with equality, it is not because they are Europeans or from Antartida, but because they have had the moral character to do so, the same as there are non Europeans, even Arabs, Pakistanis and Indians who also have had the character to do so, and questioning and reflecting and studying have come to realise that God, in the Qur'an, also says so. Because that is the way God has created us.
First of all I would like to point out that you are not good at History.
Secondly read 434 just to have a change of taste.This is very interesting topic but be rest assure Allah does not says MEn and Women have Equal rights.
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Dear borther Rajah, come down a little,
Those recommendations are out of place. You don't know what I have read and what I haven't, what I have learnt and what I haven't. YOU should read, that aya, the whole of it, the ones before, and the ones after. And you should learn history. I don't accept that anybody talks to me as if he were on conquered territory.
As a general remark I must say that insistence by men on better unequal rights (euphemism for beter rights for men) usually goes together with a lack of self-assurance, because may be without those rights they fear that they are nothing? That is a pity. May be we are completely wrong when we try to promote women on the ground that something should be done about them, whereas what should be done is give men a lot of self assurance and get into their psyche that even if they don't rule they are still persons and lovable and that to be loved for what one is is better than being a needy imposer.
Salaam