Let our name be "AHAD"
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2278 ... the religion of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation) ...
So it's obvious that Muslims have existed before Ibrahim and after him. A title for the people who submit to God Alone. A title created by Ibraheem (pbuh) to refer to those people.
Who is to say who submits to God and who doesn't? "Muslims" is a description / title of the people above.
So anybody anywhere anytime can be muslim. But idol-worship is a different issue that can affect anyone anywhere anytime.
peace
this is true, Peace. i'm remembering also the term "hanif" being used in the same way. and really, when people ask me, i respond "muslim", assuredly and happily. i believe in One God, i pray five times a day, i rely on the Quran as my guide and as inspiration. if i would describe myself as "hanif", it would be a bit like those Christians who say "i am a follower of Christ, not a Christian". still, really, they are most likely Christians than anything else.
but i'm alright with others describing thsemselves in different ways. if one wants to identif their faith as "hanif" or "tawhidi" or "ahadi", that is ok.
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Salam brothers and sisters,
ya, five. the two parts of the morning, during the day, and the two parts of the night, bro.
Praying is a very personal thing (unless you are praying Jumuaa/gathering prayers). Some may pray 5 separate times, some pray 5 times in 3 separate occasions (2 units morning + 8 units middle + 7 units night), some do extra prayers and some do 2 prayers ... we know from the Quran that all creatures praise God in the dawn and the sunset times .. good clue to know that these are two times for two prayers. A middle prayer can be added also. Point is, it will always be a personal thing ... and whether you take bow and prostrate physically or mentally is your choice. God doesn't need our prayers anyway, He knows your innermost thoughts. Contacting God is part of religion ... remember Zacharia (pbuh) in the Quran, we are told that he was praying ... what exactly was he doing? He was contacting God and asked Him for a son.
but i'm alright with others describing thsemselves in different ways. if one wants to identif their faith as "hanif" or "tawhidi" or "ahadi", that is ok.
I said a few things about my beliefs in a muslim chatroom on Paltalk. Then I got attacked ... the leader called me by the Nickname and said "are you Quranic?" ... "are you Quranic?"
I said "yes". ... So there you go, they call us "Quranics".
I loved it though because I didn't feel like a sect, but just a person who is Quranic (into the Quran) angel
From then on for about an hour or more in the chatroom it was a debate, me against 40 people. I gave them all the Quranic Quotes to support my arguments (there's one shahada, no distictions amongst messengers, God's Sunna is the only Sunna, God's Hadeeth is the only Hadeeth, following the Messenger means following the Message and not copying traditions from a hadith book .... and it went on and on and I said what I had to say.
They said either I prove them wrong or they prove me wrong ... I was open minded and humble I wasn't angry or anything but their arguments were weak as!!!
But according to them I am an idol-worshipper, my religion is incomplete, I am narrow minded, I am not a real Muslim (these are just some of the words that they called me). - their words didn't affect me at all for some reason, perhaps because they had not one single strong argument. I kind of wished they did so that at least someone will know where they stand.
The Quran was my argument and the Quran is the only argument. I answered them that the Quran explaines itself (use cross-referencing). But I noticed that they are actually scared to trust Quran Alone! the leader freaked out and said "people will then understand whatever they want". I can understand the fear that they felt. But if you trusted the Quran no matter what then why would you have fear?
It is a timeless book with many meanings and can have many different interpretations, so rather than pay attention to those they would prefer to live in the 7th century if they could.
May God bless and help support all submitting people and unite them and guide them to the right path.
jedi
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Peace to all,
another great post peace4life, I too have tried to argue the Quran alone position in a chatroom and was usually attacked and told I was being misled by Satan, so I asked if satan leads us to the Quran and they were dumbfounded, I said wouldnt satan only be able to lead us astray by hadeeth but never to the Quran ans a few agreed but most just called me names and warned me to change.
I also pray 5 times a day seperately, I dont think this is too much for us to do considering everything we have been given by God for nothing, its literally the least I can do, I would even pray more if the Quran suggested it.
Kurt
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I asked if satan leads us to the Quran and they were dumbfounded
handshake -
The Quran was my argument and the Quran is the only argument. I answered them that the Quran explaines itself (use cross-referencing). But I noticed that they are actually scared to trust Quran Alone! the leader freaked out and said "people will then understand whatever they want". I can understand the fear that they felt. But if you trusted the Quran no matter what then why would you have fear?
It is a timeless book with many meanings and can have many different interpretations, so rather than pay attention to those they would prefer to live in the 7th century if they could.
May God bless and help support all submitting people and unite them and guide them to the right path.
jedi
Amin, peace4life,
Fear is a very anchored feeling in people. In fact for many people it is their real life support. The false security of being told what to do allays fear. In fact getting rid of fear is about the one usuful thing that I might find in atheism, and in fact one of the things that atheists almost to one blame on believers. It is pity many times they are right. If people have to find their own way through the Qur'an they may be appalled. What? no scholars? as if one would say no daddy?)
However that is not restricted to hadithists, anybody, including quran people may be affected by fear. If you lose a certain interpretation you are lost. What then? Anything goes? Each one gets what he or she wants? As if there was somebody who didn't actually get what he or she wants. Everybody does, even if what one wants is daddy's Qur'an, or daddy's whaever. But the only guarantee we can have with the Qur'an or anything else is our own honesty and effort to truth with ourselves and with everything and everybody else. To that, the truthful Qur'an invites us insistently. We should follow that invitation and be more trusting, with the qur'an with ourselves, with our Creator and Benefactor. We need not fear being forsaken or unprotected. Wherever we turn is God's face, and when we turn inward, we see Hi face in our utmost intimacy. There is nothing to fear except our own lack of sincerity towards God or ourselves.
May be sincerity is something that many people have in spite of their fears. We should respect that, in spite of everything else it is always a saving grace and we should start from there. Sometimes a message may be in our hands for ages, but we don't "read" it. The important thing is that it has been transmitted.
Salaam
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Peace. Actually here, some mu-slime scholars are making a talk on the refutation of false aqeedah. This false aqeedah is supposedly our shahada No Other god besides God. The onslaught against quraniyoun continues. Unless you live here, you will never have an idea how mu-slimes are desperately ridiculous.
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Peace. Actually here, some mu-slime scholars are making a talk on the refutation of false aqeedah. This false aqeedah is supposedly our shahada No Other god besides God. The onslaught against quraniyoun continues. Unless you live here, you will never have an idea how mu-slimes are desperately ridiculous.
It is the one who is in place who really knows... and suffers. Like so many times do what I tell you and not what I do, because fighting slime is always a heavy trial. Untruth is like acid and makes us revolt. Still, one must try, trust God and his designs, and do your part. You cannot do more than that anyway. And try to see the bright things, try very hard to see as many bright things as possible. They are there, but we are so busy wanting things, even if hey are good, that we do not stop often enough to relish the good things we have. That will also strengthen you for the others. Just looking at a ray of sun in the shade is such a miracle and a reason for celebrating... Have a lot of patience, and thank God often for whatever He gives you, good or bad (in your eyes), if you thank him, sincerely and often you will see that you are able to withstand more than you thought you would.
Salaam
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The question is what purpose a label should have!
Is the purpose to distinguish between groups? I thought we were not supposed to divide into groups.
Is the purpose to describe our inner intentions and values? Well, in every group you will find the best and the worst sort of people... so labels are pretty useless for this aswell! You can't judge a person from his label... it's just not accurate!
So why do we need a label? Why? Even descriptions like "peaceful one" or "peace promoter" can mean anything. Maybe a rigid Taliban thinks he is promoting peace. It's all relative.
We should drop the focus on labels, and just focus on being humans, making it better for our fellow humans... if we don't feel we are all one family, the human beings, we will never succeed in peace. Divisions and exclusive groupings ruins it from the start. When we label someone, or ourselves, we don't give them a chance. Everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves, so let's not label eachother. If we so desperately need labels, then why not resort to groupings which do not so easily result in genocide and war, such as biker, trainspotter, enterpreneur, ornithologist, garden-lover, negotiator, party princess, couch potatoe, exercise freak, computer whiz...
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The question is what purpose a label should have!
Is the purpose to distinguish between groups? I thought we were not supposed to divide into groups.
Is the purpose to describe our inner intentions and values? Well, in every group you will find the best and the worst sort of people... so labels are pretty useless for this aswell! You can't judge a person from his label... it's just not accurate!
So why do we need a label? Why? Even descriptions like "peaceful one" or "peace promoter" can mean anything. Maybe a rigid Taliban thinks he is promoting peace. It's all relative.
We should drop the focus on labels, and just focus on being humans, making it better for our fellow humans... if we don't feel we are all one family, the human beings, we will never succeed in peace. Divisions and exclusive groupings ruins it from the start. When we label someone, or ourselves, we don't give them a chance. Everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves, so let's not label eachother. If we so desperately need labels, then why not resort to groupings which do not so easily result in genocide and war, such as biker, trainspotter, enterpreneur, ornithologist, garden-lover, negotiator, party princess, couch potatoe, exercise freak, computer whiz...
Peace Zulf,
The problem is people will label you no matter what. My hope and intention was to put a name out that has some meaning and that we by our actions could fill with good meaning. brickwall
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Peace to all,
another great post peace4life, I too have tried to argue the Quran alone position in a chatroom and was usually attacked and told I was being misled by Satan, so I asked if satan leads us to the Quran and they were dumbfounded, I said wouldnt satan only be able to lead us astray by hadeeth but never to the Quran ans a few agreed but most just called me names and warned me to change.
I also pray 5 times a day seperately, I dont think this is too much for us to do considering everything we have been given by God for nothing, its literally the least I can do, I would even pray more if the Quran suggested it.
Kurt
Peace Kurt,
I wish one day to be able to make such a defining comment. That must have opened some minds to actual thinking and questioning yes
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I think of my self as a Muslim. However, what I see as Islam is so unbelievably different to virtually every other "Muslim" (basically every "Muslim" bar those on this site and a few other people) that to tell others I'm a Muslim would be like a mainstream Christian telling other people that he's a Satanist.
Therefore I am opting for the name Hanif when answering those who only know about muhammadanism (sectarian "Islam".
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Peace all,
As brother Nadeem has excellently said, deeds/actions are more important than words/names. One can search for the numerous references to "good works" and "good doers" in the Qur'aan.
"Ahad" has been used in the Qur'aan as descriptive attribute of The God, and not of the believers.
Calling ourselves "Ahad" would be nonsensical, and "Ahadie" would be similar to "Allahism".
Let us see what The God's message is concerning this
2132 And Abraham enjoined his sons and Jacob "O my sons, God has selected the system for you, so do not die except as ones who have submitted (muslimoon)."
3102 O you who believe, revere God as He deserves to be revered, and do not die except as ones who have submitted (muslimoon).
5111 "And I inspired the disciples that you shall believe in Me and My messenger; they said "We believe, and bear witness that we have submitted (muslimoon).""
6163 "He has no partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted (muslimeen)."
7126 "And you are only seeking revenge on us because we believed in our Lord's signs when they came to us. Our Lord, provide us with patience, and let us die as submitters (muslimeen)."
1072 "But if you turn away, then I have not asked you for any reward, for my reward is with God. And I have been commanded to be of those who have submitted (muslimeen)."
1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said "I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted (muslimeen)."
12101 "My Lord, You have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretations of what is narrated. Initiator of the heavens and Earth, You are my protector in this world and the Hereafter. Let me die as one who has submitted (musliman), and join me with the good doers."
1689 And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have submitted (muslimeen).
16102 Say "The Holy Spirit has sent it down from your Lord with truth, so that those who believe will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for those who have submitted (muslimeen)."
2731 ""Do not be arrogant toward me and come to me as submitters (muslimeen).""
2791 "I have been ordered to serve the Lord of this land that He has made restricted, and to Him are all things, and I have been ordered to be of those who submit (muslimeen)."
3912 "And I was commanded to be the first of those who submit (muslimeen)."
4133 And who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have submitted (muslimeen)."
4615 And We enjoined the human being to honor his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says "My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do righteousness that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted (muslimeen)."
AND FINALLY
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you 'those who have submitted' (muslimeen) from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So uphold the communion and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.
In the above translations, "became peaceful", or "made peace" can be substituted for "submitted", and "peacemaker" or "peaceful" can be substituted for "submitter".
Remember .... muslim is not a title but a description and one can use this description for oneself only if qualified by one's deeds.
Peace.
Very good post. I agree...
I have a question regarding the origins of the description "Muslim". Many people on here say that Ibraheem gave us (as a group) the title, but the Scriptures say
"And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you 'those who have submitted' from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So uphold the communion and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter." (Al-Qur'aan 227
Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me, this looks like GOD HIMSELF gave us the title of Muslims, not Ibraheem. It's evident because it says "from before as well as in this" - Ibraheem couldn't have named the ones "before" and "in this" as Muslims, since he was dead long before Mohammed delivered the Message of Al-Qur'aan. That's just my take on this Scripture, though...
Peace.