Are we on earth because of Adam?
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Peace,
From my understanding, Adam was taught (learned) the description of things, he was able to describe things and thus express ideas. This was a paradigm in human evolution.
Certainly, Adam was not living alone; he was a member of a community of what we consider now as primitive humans. When acquiring such ability, he and his community possessed a great advantage over other communities and thus flourished while the others declined.
With ideas comes knowledge, but also nonsense; so truth and falsehood had to co-exist. I think before that period, only the truth existed, falsehood needs a medium which is language to propagate.
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So there were human communities already, and Adam was made out of mud one day?
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So there were human communities already, and Adam was made out of mud one day?
Peace FS,
All of us are made of the same basic components or atoms as mud, they are only arranged in different ways.
Bashar or homo sapiens is the species. When it acquires speech it becomes insaan or human.
Before the ability of speech, human's thoughts were hidden or from the jin. After acquiring speech, humans become able to show some bits of their thoughts or hidden world to others.
At the same times, it was made possible to tell lies, which was impossible before.
You can think of these steps like the growing steps of a new born baby (bashar) until he starts saying some words around 2 yo and making sentences around 4-5yo. This is where the kid's Ego develops making him aware of himself. This process took surely much more time before, and was a paradigm in human evolution.
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Oh yeah, no doubt, but Novice seemed to be rejecting the idea that there was incest in human history because it is found to be dangerous and distasteful now, but I was saying that early humans and their ancestors had to have mated with their close relatives and within their own direct relatives and there was much in-breeding, and I think scientists would agree. I wasn't trying to say anything against evolution, just that incest seems necessary even in that system as something which very likely had to occur. Otherwise one might be suggesting somehow that there were other creations being created and all that.
I don't mind the more metaphysical or mystical interpretation, all I was talking about was the usual idea that there was one that divided into two, and most people say that was Adam and from Adam came Eve, in whatever sense, that it was one that became two, or one and then its mate from it, or whatever. If it didn't happen that way I don't care much and I apologize if I've said anything wrong really.
INCEST??? rotfl
The First Creation By Pazuzu
? on September 16, 2011, 012412 PM ?The First Creation
As You Were First Spawned, So Shall You Return
For many centuries, humanity has been trying to answer one important, yet puzzling question How did the living organisms of this Earth first come into being? How was mankind created, and how did they multiply? The truth of the matter is that some evil, sentient will has been responsible for shrouding human knowledge concerning the matter of creation behind a veil of lies, and has been acting as an obstacle between us, and Allah?s command
{Say "Roam the earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Thus Allah will establish the final creation. Allah is capable of all things."}?.
Where do we roam? And what do we search for?
We will let the Quran be our guide, because the truths of our creation are contained within it, and have been validated by modern science. Allah?s final scripture to mankind harbors the mother of all secrets; a secret that we have always read but never been fully aware of; a secret that we have often reiterated, but never truly understood. For had we grasped it, we would have found the answer to many of our traditional and contradictory beliefs. Had we understood it, we would have realized that everything we ? as submitters to Allah - have believed in concerning our creation has been taken not from the Quran, but from the corrupted Jewish scriptures.
So, for now, let us roam Allah?s Book, and may the truth set us free?
The story of creation, as told by the Quran, reveals to us the fact that Homo Sapiens first appeared somewhere between 35,000 and 50,000 years ago, as has been proven by anthropologists and fossil diggers. But modern man did not originate from nothing, or out of a clay figure, as the Torah has falsely planted in the minds of the masses. Rather, Homo Sapiens (modern humans), which in Arabic are denoted by the term insan, evolved, over thousands of years, from more basic and primitive species (not apes), which the Quran calls bashar. And this difference between bashar and insan is the key to understanding the process of creation, which has been hidden from us, on purpose, behind a veil of lies.
As for the question of how the first, individual bashar was created, we can say with all certainty, that there was never just one single ?proto-type?, but rather large groups of living humanoids, which were created, through the will of rububiyya (divine nurturing and sustaining), straight out of the clay of the Earth(the limus terra). This took place in an era when the planet was in a certain state of pressure, magnetism, and chemical conditions that it had never witnessed before, and will never witness again, which made the Earth?s muddy pools akin to a female womb, when it nurtures the fetus. These humanoids (which at the primary stage were sexless), later on developed male and female characteristics, the ability to copulate, and scattered all over the continents. It is from the progeny of these basic, primitive bashar that modern humans later evolved, through a process that we will shortly explain.
Consequently, we did not evolve from apes, as Charles Darwin claimed. On the contrary, every living species of this Earth, including the first humanoids (bashar), is unique in its own DNA ? those basic chromosomal traits which identify it from other species - and was first nurtured inside egg-like ?wombs? within the mud and swamp expanses of the Earth, until it reached full growth, and crawled out from the mud, as a completely developed organism. Later on, in another stage, came the era of copulation between males and females of these organisms, and the ?egg? was transferred from the Earth, into the female womb.
If we were somehow able to take a ride on a time machine, and travel back hundreds of thousands of years to observe such a process, we would think that we were on some alien planet, witnessing the birth of strange humanoid creatures and their spawning directly from sacs in the ground, without sexual copulation.
In fact, the Quran tells us, in very clear terms, that the first creation of early humanoids was, in fact, directly from the Earth itself. The Quran calls this process ?al-nasha?atuloula? and in some instances ?al-inbat? (which literally means ?grown like plants? and springing forth from the ground). Then, at a later stage, when the conditions of the Earth?s climate and soil could no longer sustain it, the process evolved and became as we know it today (development of fetuses in the female womb).
Depiction of Darwin?s theory, which has been rejected by modern science.
{?Your Rabb?s forgiveness is vast. He has been fully aware of you since He initiated you from the earth, and when you were embryos in the wombs of your mothers. Therefore, do not ascribe purity to yourselves; He is fully aware of the righteous}?.
The above verse is clear in its description of two stages of creation The first stage is that of the initial creation straight out from the mud of the Earth. The second is the embryonic stage inside the female womb.
Further evidence of this is found in the following
{He is the One who created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then He brings you out as a child, then He lets you reach your maturity, then you become old; and some of you will have their lives terminated before this; and that you may reach an appointed term, and perhaps so you may comprehend}?
Again, we see evidence of these stages The first is the ?Earth Egg? stage, followed by the female womb stage.
In fact, the Quran is also clear in stating that the first humanoids evolved through many stages before they became Homo Sapiens, as evidenced in the following
{Why do you not seek Allah in humility? * While He created you in stages}?
And in Allah?s account of a debate between a believer and a rejecter
{His friend said to him while discussing with him "Have you disbelieved in the One who created you from dust, then from a seed, then He made you into a man?}?
So we see here, the proof of two stages of birth and creation The first stage is the creation directly from the ?womb of the Earth?, and the second is the stage of the embryo inside the female womb.
Nowhere is this truth more evident than in the following
{The One who perfected everything He created. And He began the creation of man from clay * Then He made his offspring from a structure derived from a lowly liquid * Then He corrected/bettered/evolved him, and blew into him from His Spirit. And He made for you the hearing, the eyesight, and the hearts; rarely are you thankful}?
Note the significance of the underlined terms ?He began? and ?then?. The above verses really leave no room for interpretation, no matter how much we try to ?bend? or ?cut around corners?. They are telling us, very clearly and eloquently, that our humanoid ancestors were spawned from womb-like eggs in the Earth. Then, at a later era, their progeny came from the union of male and female cells. Then, finally, came the evolution into humans (insan), through the breathing of the Spirit (Ruuh), which we will explain hereafter.
The very first cells from which all human life originated formed in the muddy pools at the banks of the watery expanses of our planet. These cells were actually bi-sexual (meaning they contained both xx and xy chromosomes). This means that the clay of the fresh water pools harbored all life on Earth, by means of the divinerububiyya. This is in accordance with what the Quran tells us
{And Allah created every moving creature from water. So some of them move on their bellies, and some walk on two legs, and some walk on four. Allah creates whatever He wills. Allah is capable of all things}?
{Have those who rejected not seen that the heavens and the earth were one piece, so We split them apart? And that We have made from the water everything that lives. Will they not believe}?
And so it was, until eventually these cells ? through evolution ? started multiplying and forming the characteristics of two genders, then continued to grow inside womb-like sacs in the clay of the Earth, until they became fully-grown humanoids, which then broke through the mud of the Earth, just as all other organisms had done for thousands of years before them.
The First Creation Humanoid embryos developed inside egg-like sacs in the Earth, and then crawled out as fully-grown, adult living beings.
Now, when we encounter the term basharin the Quran, me must accept that it refers to a living organism, not a figure made of wax or clay, as the Old Testament would have us believe. So when the Quran tells us
{And your Rabb said to the Malai?ka "I am creating a bashar from sludge of hot sediment?}?
It clearly means that He created a living organism. Unfortunately, the ?Muslims?, under the influence of the corrupted Jewish scriptures, understood it as meaning ?He created the likeness of a man from clay?! However, this living organism that was initially spawned - in large numbers ? from eggs inside the clay of the Earth, was not yet perfected, and hence not fit to receive divine guidance. Something was still lacking The Breathing of Allah?s Spirit (Ruuh), which would evolve this basharfrom savage being, into a human being (insan).
And so now comes the crucial question What exactly is the Spirit?(Ruuh).
The vast majority of Muslims have fallen into confusion concerning this issue, and have ended up mixing the terms nafs (soul) with ruuh (spirit). They think that the two terms are synonymous and interchangeable. They think that the ruuh is the cause of life, and that when a person dies, his ruuh returns to Allah. They even speak of arwah (spirits ? in the plural!). The fact of the matter is that the Quran completely denies these claims, and clearly differentiates between nafs(which is, by the way, always feminine in the Quran) and ruuh (which is always denoted as masculine). This is not a coincidence, ladies and gentlemen. It is a Quranic phenomenon, which 99% of Muslims fail to grasp, because they read the Quran like zombies, without making even the slightest effort to understand what it is saying.
The Quran clearly tells us that when a person dies, his nafs (soul) returns to Allah, NOT his ruuh. The following verses are among many which prove this
{O, you soul (nafs) which is reassured * Return to your Rabb, in contentment}?
{Allah seizes the souls (anfus) at the time of their death; and for those that have not died, during their sleep. He then keeps those that have been overtaken by death, and He sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will reflect}?
{And do not be impressed by their wealth and their children; Allah only wishes to punish them with it in this world, so their souls (anfusahum) will be taken while they are rejecters}?
Do we see the tem ruuh (spirit) or arwah (spirits) mentioned anywhere in the context of life and death in the Quran? Absolutely NOT. This is because the term ruuh is not the ?secret of life?, but rather the ?secret of evolution from primitive humanoid (bashar) to Homo-Sapien?. This Spirit is a divine gift that was bestowed to humankind in order to evolve it beyond its savage origins, and make it fit to be the vicegerent on Earth. Here, then, is the key to solving the puzzle.
{And your Rabb said to the Mala?ika ?I am creating a being (bashar) from clay * So when I have (corrected /bettered/ evolved him), and blown of My Spirit (ruuh) in him, then you shall yield to him}?
It was only after the perfection of this being (which we stress, was an already living being, not an inanimate clay figure), that the Mala?ika (various influential forces) would submit to him. What this means, essentially, is that thousands of years might have passed between the time of creation of the first humanoids from the clay of the Earth, and their evolution into insan. This is why a person who is righteous and close to Allah, and who shuns the pleasures of the physical body, is described as a ?spiritual person?. So the Spirit (ruuh) is not what bestowed life to a clay figurine, as the Torah tells us, and 99% of the Muslims believe. Thebasharthat was first created was evidently an already living organism. But a giant leap took place, at some point, which led to this savage humanoid becoming ?closer to Allah?, so to speak. And that, dear brothers and sisters, is the true meaning of the ruuh.
So it was then, that our humanoid ancestors were first spawned as sexless organisms, from womb-like sacks in the mud of the ponds and rivers (Earth Fetus Stage).Then, at some point later, the cells within the sacks started developing male and female characteristics, and eventually spawned organisms of both sexes. This is what the Quran calls ?al-nasha?atuloula? (the First Creation). Then, at a later stage (perhaps after thousands of years), the birth of this organism took place through sexual union, and developing of the fetus was then transferred into the female (Womb Fetus Stage). This precisely, is the truth that has been hidden from us all these centuries.
The First Creation Humanoids spawning from ?Earth Embryos?
The current stage Birth from the female womb.
An even more amazing concept is that the Quran repeatedly mentions that the First Creation is exactly like the Last Creation (?al-nasha?atulakhira?). As we were first created, so we shall be risen again on the Era of Resurrection, and in the very same manner! This is why the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula (which was the origin of all Semitic races), even from the most ancient times, have kept the tradition of burying the dead, in a way that is symbolic of our original creation. As our humanoid ancestors first spawned from egg-like sacks in the clay of the Earth, so we must be buried, in order for us to re-spawn from the Earth again, in the Hereafter.
I know this might come as a shock to many of you. But the fact is that the Quran clearly mentions this, and it has been under our noses since forever, but we have been blinded to this truth, purposefully, by a diabolical and scheming will.
{And Allah made you grow from the earth as plants * Then He returns you to it, and He brings you out totally}?
It?s as if the ancient Arabs, by instinct, or on a subconscious level, were aware of what they were doing when they buried their dead. They were emulating the origin of creation, which they understood would be similar to its end.
{From it (the earth) We created you, and in it We return you, and from it We bring you out another time}?
The truth is plain and simple, if only we had opened our eyes from the beginning. From the Earth we first arose like grown plants (the First Creation), and to the Earth we shall return (upon death and burial) and from the Earth we will rise again (the Resurrection) to be repaid for our deeds.
That is how it all began, and that is how it will end
{On the Day when We roll up the heavens like the scroll of a book is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We repeat it. It is a promise of Ours that We will surely deliver}?
If you know of any other way to interpret the above verse, then please enlighten me, because I fail to see it. The Arabic is so pure, so eloquent, and has been under our noses for so long, it is truly a catastrophic shame that we did not grasp it.
{And they are displayed before your Rabb in rows "You have come to Us as We had created you the first time. No, you claimed We would not make for you an appointed time!}?
{He brings the living out of the dead, and He brings the dead out of the living. And He revives the land after its death. And similarly you will be brought out}?
Indeed, so shall we be brought out on the Resurrection like plants growing out of the soil again; a prospect that is truly frightening, yet awesome at the same time.
{Say "Roam the earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Thus Allah will establish the final creation. Allah is capable of all things."}?.
Again, a reminder that the Final Creation shall be like the First. And again, a reminder that the truth of the matter can be observed by roaming the Earth and digging it with our picks and shovels, rather than by sifting through the yellowed and diseased books of ?tafsir? and ?tradition?, which have been infested with ancient myths and corruptions.
And thus, many puzzling dilemmas can now be brought to rest. What of those who died without being buried? Those who were burned and their ashes scattered? Those who were eaten by predatory animals? Those who drowned in the sea? And so on and so forth?what will become of them? In the end, they will all be spawned again, naked, from clay ?tombs? in the Earth of the Hereafter.
{So turn away from them; the era will come when the caller will announce something truly unimaginable. With their eyes humiliated, they will come out of the tombs like scattered locusts}?
And now, after bringing this long-hidden truth into the light, how can we still accept the traditional version of the story of creation that we?ve been taught since childhood? How can we continue to hold on to the fairytale imagined in the Old Testament, which tells us
?And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul?? (Genesis, 27)
Is this in accordance with what the Quran says? Or are we missing something? How can this be?
Allah?s final and ultimate scripture is telling us that first humanoids (not ?Adam?) grew out of the muddy soil like plants, in large numbers, and were living beings (not clay figures). And we have seen how the Quran clearly describes the First Creation{And Allah made you grow from the earth as plants * Then He returns you to it, and He brings you out totally}?
The above verse is crucial as far as pointing out the contradiction between the truth, and what we thought has been the truth, for centuries. It is telling us a version of the story that drastically diverges from the myth of the inanimate clay figure into which ?the Lord God? breathed life, which we read about in the Old Testament. The Quran speaks of already living, primitive organisms that were spawned directly from the limus terra, (the clay of the Earth), and afterwards perfected through the breathing of Allah?s Spirit (ruuh). And if we follow all the verses of the Quran which bear mention of the term ruuh, we will easily come to the conclusion that it was not the case of ?breathing life into the nostrils of an inanimate clay figure?. Rather, it was breathing the Spirit of Divinity which turned the primitive basharintoinsan, and made them closer to Allah.
When Allah addresses His messenger, Muhammad (P), He says
{And thus, We inspired to you (Muhamad) a spirit of Our command. You did not know what was the Book, nor what was faith. Yet, We made this a light to guide whoever We wish from among Our servants. Surely, you guide to a straight path}?
Was Muhamad an inanimate clay figure before the Spirit of Revelation came to him? Or was he a living, breathing human being? And was it not by this Spirit (ruuh), that he was made a nabi and a messenger to all mankind? By the same logic, we understand that the first primitive humanoids received the Spirit of Divinity, which made them human, and closer to Allah than their previous, savage origins.
This is the truth that the Muslims have been blind to for ages, because they continue to read the Quran without reflection. They are content to pay more attention to the proper pronunciation of its recited words, and how to chant it eloquently, rather than actually grasp its meaning.
No, my brothers and sisters. Humanity did not originate from an inanimate clay figure, as the corruptors of the Torah claimed, and 99% of the Muslims believe. On the other hand, Darwin?s theory has been disproved my modern science. Anthropologists now accept that each and every living organism on this planet has its own, separate hereditary lineage, and its own common chromosomal trait, which distinguishes it from other organisms. Thus, a mosquito cannot evolve into a bat, while a cat will never evolve into a hyena. Likewise, the ape did not evolve into man. Each organism came from its own genealogical tree, and each evolved to adapt to the changes in its surroundings and climate, but retained its common chromosomal thread, which distinguished it from other organisms. Likewise, we humans evolved according to the climate and geography of our location. Yet, despite the varying color of our skin, the shape of our eyes, the height of our frames, what digestive enzymes we have or lack, and so on and so forth, we have always retained our own common DNA features, which distinguish us from other, separate species. We did NOT evolve from apes.
The Bible Myth God creating Adam as an inanimate clay figure, then breathing life into him.
The Quran warns us numerous times of blatant corruptions in the previous scriptures, in order for the followers of Muhamad (P) to be fully aware of this fact. Yet, despite these warnings, the Muslims took their understanding of the Quran directly from the Old Testament, thus flooding the books of ?tafseer? and ?tradition? with ancient Jewish myths. To make matters worse, the traditional interpreters and Muslim historians claimed that the Jewish scriptures don?t contradict the Quran, and are in fact necessary to understand Allah?s final revelation! It was thus that the truth of our creation has remained hidden from our eyes all these centuries, veiled by the writings and ramblings of misguided men.
And it is thus that we understand the famous saying ?If people only knew how their creation began, no two would ever differ!?
Quote from Pazuzu on September 16, 2011, 012412 PM
Rather, Homo Sapiens (modern humans), which in Arabic are denoted by the term insan, evolved, over thousands of years, from more basic and primitive species (not apes), which the Quran calls bashar. And this difference between bashar and insan is the key to understanding the process of creation, which has been hidden from us, on purpose, behind a veil of lies.
- Their messengers said unto them We are but BAHAR like you, but Allah giveth grace unto whom He will of His slaves. It is not ours to bring you a warrant unless by the permission of Allah. In Allah let believers put their trust!
According to your definition Were the messengers and their people primitive species?
Nope. That's not it. The messengers were not primitive. But it's very good that you asked. I was expecting this question a long time ago.Let me explain to you the contexts of the word "bashar".
From a purely phisiological and anatomical perspective, we are all BASHAR. This means, we have physical bodies made of flesh, bone, organs, hair, nerves, etc... In fact, a chimpanzee has all those as well.
This is why, when we go to the university and study at the faculty of "al- tubb al bashari" (meaning the bashari medicine), we are studying our bodies from a purely anatomical perspective.
But when we study HUMANITIES (Arabic insaniyyat), we are talking here about things that only HUMANS have psychology, sociology, law, philosophy.... get it?
The thing is, I have yet to find, in English, a word that is equivalent to the word "bashar" in Arabic. I mean, when you translate it as "human", you are not being accurate. A human is much more than a bashar.
insan = human
bashar = ?I used the word "humanoid" to describe the primitive beings which existed before Adam (the Homo Sapien). I used it simply for lack of a better term
In fact, the word "bashar" comes from the root 'b-sh-r' which means to announce something that is coming / tidings of things to come in the future. And from it is derived the word "bushra", which every Arab speaker can understand.
So, when Allah told the malai'ka that He was going to create a BASHAR from clay, this bashar was like news of something greater to come in the future. Get it?
Now, concerning your excellent question Why / When did the prophets say "we are simply BASHAR like everyone else"?
If you read the context, it is always in one of the following cases
1- Either the people asked Muhamad for supernatural "miracles", so he answers "I am but a BASHAR like you" (meaning from a purely anatomical perspective, he was not a "supernatural being" or one of the malai'ka. He had a body of flesh and blood)
2- Or, Allah wants to show us that His messengers ate food and had mortal bodies. Again, this is from a purely anatomical perspective. They were bashar, whose bodies required sustanence.
Hope that helps...
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Didn't the "Bashar" do incest then? Who cares even.
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So there were human communities already, and Adam was made out of mud one day?
FredomStand please do some research on human evolution before giving your verdicts. Scientific knowledge is at a quite advance stage. Archaeology, geology along with other branches of science have solved many myths. Incest was practiscd by certain groups as Man of Faith has explained.
Pharaohs often practiced incest to keep the genes within the family because they often deemed themselves as deities. It is likely common within royalties elsewhere too in the past because they deem their blood to be superior so they do not like to mix it with inferior blood.
It is hard to prove empirically unless one has a time machine, but I think that race Homo Sapiens was already in existence when the spirit of Adam was given a body. I doubt the evolution of Homo Sapiens but I think that it was established separately from evolution. Unless one can prove me otherwise I have found no indications that scientists have found a corpse of a Homo Sapiens that show any particular evolution on the species. Other races, e.g. Homo Erectus, are clearly different species and cannot be the ancestor of Homo Sapiens. However, Homo Neanderthalensis may be Homo Sapiens without the spirit that the Sustainer created, changing the species slightly. This species co-existed with Homo Sapiens for some time until it was mysteriously extinct.
"Genetic evidence published in 2014 suggests that Neanderthals contributed to the DNA of anatomically modern humans, probably through interbreeding with them between 50,000 to 60,000 years ago."
Personally I think that the non-physical spirit of Adam was inserted into an already existing species on Earth and therefrom spread. It is not clear whether it is just one person or if the whole species was spawned in "husks" here and there. The speak of Adam and so on is merely allegorical and metaphorical.
Quran goes hand in hand with scientific knowledge.
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FredomStand please do some research on human evolution before giving your verdicts. Scientific knowledge is at a quite advance stage. Archaeology, geology along with other branches of science have solved many myths. Incest was practiscd by certain groups as Man of Faith has explained.
Quran goes hand in hand with scientific knowledge.
I don't understand how you're telling me to "do some research on human evolution" when you're the one who seems to be implying something that is strange or contrary to scientific knowledge or whatever. Its like someone farting in an elevator and looking at me and saying "excuse you!".
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I don't understand how you're telling me to "do some research on human evolution" when you're the one who seems to be implying something that is strange or contrary to scientific knowledge or whatever. Its like someone farting in an elevator and looking at me and saying "excuse you!".
In the Popol Vuh, the Book of Mayan, translated by Franc?sco Xim?nez, a Dominican priest, into Spanish, in which he described about the myth of creation was that the first man was spawned from the earth, exactly what the Quran says. The rest are conjectures.
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I think I didn't understand though? Like what do you think I'm maybe suggesting and what are you suggesting instead? I understood the one soul thing I think which I didn't mind, but when you mentioned the evolution thing I'm not sure totally what was being suggested.
Salaam Freedom.
Here's my humble effort in answering your 2 questions
Like what do you think I'm maybe suggesting
I don't know. You started of with Eve being created out of Adam - then admitted that 41 can potentially speak about Human soul and spirit - rather than actual physical humans - then seemed to have taken a tone where you were accepting evolution but insisting that even theory of evolution includes some degree of incest behavior - and finally seem to be going round the cycle implying Quranic understanding and evolution are not fully compatible.
Why do not you clarify what is that you are suggesting - and if possible do that without your offensive jokes - atleast for the sake of the month of Ramadan and fasting which you seem to advocate.
what are you suggesting instead?
I believe what I am suggesting is quite consistent with what Someone and Novice are suggesting. This is kind of ironical because I am also someone novice - so do take my opinions with a grain of salt
If it was not obvious enough let me specify step by step
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Allah started the creation from his Own Nafs (Soul / prakrity) - the Singular soul that exists timelessly and created out of it it's mate which is the spirit (rooh/ pourusha) - the soul and spirit then manifested in billions of humans through the wombs of the mothers.
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The creation of the physical body of mankind started from sticky clay in a planet named earth. due to some miraculously complex arrangement of matters inside underwater sticky clay primitive life form sprung out of non-living organism. Allah said "be" and it was.
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From the earliest organism all creatures of earth came out of water. Through billions of years of shaping and reshaping (aka evolution), the organism created out of clay was ready to assume the role of Khalifa of Allah on earth.
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Allah chose the first "human" in Adam and taught him names of things. Adam became the first person to acquire as his "mate" a human spirit (loaded with human intellect + conscience). Adam and his mate (the human spirit) started to live in the rich forest (jannah) along with other humanoids.
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Due to extra curious nature Adam breached some sort of social custom / ruling within the premitive humanoid society (approached / ate from the prohibited tree - both metaphorically and physically) - and got banished from the earlier society along with a few of his fellow friends - some of them enemy to others, and were sent down from the forest (jannah) to earth (ground) to make a living.
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The different lifestyle of Adam and his group led them to loose extra hair in their body, they became more distinct from forest based apes, their private parts became more visible and prominent and they started to use "clothing" from leaves.
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Subsequently, Allah relented upon Adam, taught him (and his group) speech. Eventually all humanoids got down to earth and joined Adam and co.
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I am not sure whether Adam was an individual or a generic name to identify the early humans who became distinct as a species. Most likely the term "Adam" represents both in Qur'an. Note, Qur'an also addresses "Insan" (Human) as third person singular as if "Insan" is the name of a person.
Once again I'd like to reiterate that the above is one of many possible scenarios which are compatible with Quranic narrative. I am by no way suggesting that this is the firm truth that Qur'an is telling us. Qur'an says what it says, it is upto us to take them as a sign and be guided accordingly.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
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I don't understand how you're telling me to "do some research on human evolution" when you're the one who seems to be implying something that is strange or contrary to scientific knowledge or whatever. Its like someone farting in an elevator and looking at me and saying "excuse you!".
Let me clarify it again on this forum brother that everyone is responsible for one's actions. You are free to follow your understanding and so am I. No compulsion in DEEN. If you can do a health academic discussion you are more than welcome to do it. Otherwise
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The servants of the Rahman who walk on the earth humbly, and when the ignorant people speak to them, they reply peacefully, (2563)and
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For you is your DEEN, and for me, my DEEN.?(1096) -
Salaam Freedom.
Here's my humble effort in answering your 2 questions
Like what do you think I'm maybe suggesting
I don't know. You started of with Eve being created out of Adam - then admitted that 41 can potentially speak about Human soul and spirit - rather than actual physical humans - then seemed to have taken a tone where you were accepting evolution but insisting that even theory of evolution includes some degree of incest behavior - and finally seem to be going round the cycle implying Quranic understanding and evolution are not fully compatible.
Why do not you clarify what is that you are suggesting - and if possible do that without your offensive jokes - atleast for the sake of the month of Ramadan and fasting which you seem to advocate.
what are you suggesting instead?
I believe what I am suggesting is quite consistent with what Someone and Novice are suggesting. This is kind of ironical because I am also someone novice - so do take my opinions with a grain of salt
If it was not obvious enough let me specify step by step
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Allah started the creation from his Own Nafs (Soul / prakrity) - the Singular soul that exists timelessly and created out of it it's mate which is the spirit (rooh/ pourusha) - the soul and spirit then manifested in billions of humans through the wombs of the mothers.
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The creation of the physical body of mankind started from sticky clay in a planet named earth. due to some miraculously complex arrangement of matters inside underwater sticky clay primitive life form sprung out of non-living organism. Allah said "be" and it was.
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From the earliest organism all creatures of earth came out of water. Through billions of years of shaping and reshaping (aka evolution), the organism created out of clay was ready to assume the role of Khalifa of Allah on earth.
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Allah chose the first "human" in Adam and taught him names of things. Adam became the first person to acquire as his "mate" a human spirit (loaded with human intellect + conscience). Adam and his mate (the human spirit) started to live in the rich forest (jannah) along with other humanoids.
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Due to extra curious nature Adam breached some sort of social custom / ruling within the premitive humanoid society (approached / ate from the prohibited tree - both metaphorically and physically) - and got banished from the earlier society along with a few of his fellow friends - some of them enemy to others, and were sent down from the forest (jannah) to earth (ground) to make a living.
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The different lifestyle of Adam and his group led them to loose extra hair in their body, they became more distinct from forest based apes, their private parts became more visible and prominent and they started to use "clothing" from leaves.
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Subsequently, Allah relented upon Adam, taught him (and his group) speech. Eventually all humanoids got down to earth and joined Adam and co.
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I am not sure whether Adam was an individual or a generic name to identify the early humans who became distinct as a species. Most likely the term "Adam" represents both in Qur'an. Note, Qur'an also addresses "Insan" (Human) as third person singular as if "Insan" is the name of a person.
Once again I'd like to reiterate that the above is one of many possible scenarios which are compatible with Quranic narrative. I am by no way suggesting that this is the firm truth that Qur'an is telling us. Qur'an says what it says, it is upto us to take them as a sign and be guided accordingly.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanI don't know about all these friends and the society, it seemed that Adam (if an individual) was before them or rather alone seeming. If Adam was a human in the shape we are in now, I don't know, but I guess I'm of the more traditional understanding somewhat that there was Adam, he had a physical mate they both prayed and asked for forgiveness etc. I don't know why the Qur'an would be weird and saying "they both" or whatever meaning Adam and his soul as separate and both asking for forgiveness. I believe its likely the people at the time also understood it in a rather traditional way as well.
You're asking me to refrain from jokes when there are things like this posted?
"their private parts became more visible and prominent"
Just itching to say "me too!"
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I don't know about all these friends and the society, it seemed that Adam (if an individual) was before them or rather alone seeming. If Adam was a human in the shape we are in now, I don't know, but I guess I'm of the more traditional understanding somewhat that there was Adam, he had a physical mate they both prayed and asked for forgiveness etc. I don't know why the Qur'an would be weird and saying "they both" or whatever meaning Adam and his soul as separate and both asking for forgiveness. I believe its likely the people at the time also understood it in a rather traditional way as well.
Salaam FreedomStands.
You are entitled to have your understanding. The flat-earthers are entitled to have their understanding. No one is forcing anyone to change their understanding.
And by the way, your comment "I believe its likely the people at the time also understood it in a rather traditional way as well." is particulalrly interesting. This helps me demonstrate what I was trying to explain to you in the other thread about "believing the book" vs. "having faith in the signs of the book". If one is concluding that the stories in Qur'an must have a firm interpretation - so if people of the time understood Qur'an in a way and we understand in a different way either they are wrong or we are - then one is trying to seek interpretation of Qur'an and insisting on believing the interpretation.
"...But none knows its interpretation except Allah - and those deeply-rooted in knowledge ? they say, ?We put faith in it, everything is from near our Master? - but none rethinks except the men of discretion."
"people at the time (of Prophet)" also potentially believed in flat earth, creation of the universe in 6 calendar days and sun setting in dark water. That does not bar us from enhancing our understanding based on what Allah revealed to us as the likely "truth".
The truth is from your Master, so do not be the doubter.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salaam FreedomStands.
You are entitled to have your understanding. The flat-earthers are entitled to have their understanding. No one is forcing anyone to change their understanding.
And by the way, your comment "I believe its likely the people at the time also understood it in a rather traditional way as well." is particulalrly interesting. This helps me demonstrate what I was trying to explain to you in the other thread about "believing the book" vs. "having faith in the signs of the book". If one is concluding that the stories in Qur'an must have a firm interpretation - so if people of the time understood Qur'an in a way and we understand in a different way either they are wrong or we are - then one is trying to seek interpretation of Qur'an and insisting on believing the interpretation.
"...But none knows its interpretation except Allah - and those deeply-rooted in knowledge ? they say, ?We put faith in it, everything is from near our Master? - but none rethinks except the men of discretion."
May Allah guide us all to the straight rote.
Regards,
ArmanOh, by my comment I just meant they probably understood it more like the usual way back then too I suspect, not that the way they understood it is necessarily true or validates anything, just that the Qur'an was revealed to those people and didn't perhaps clarify anything to totally make them re-imagine the story they had already perhaps heard in the Bible in any radical way, where in other cases that are even less important seeming (dispute of the cave dwellers for example), it did try to clarify, and in the case of Jesus too, but let people apparently retain their views without much extra corrective commentary in this case.
I just don't know why the "soul" is being separated from the person and spoken of like a separate individual or whatever and it isn't apparently being clarified to people that it means a soul rather than a physical mate.
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Almost what I was writing about, but in far fewer lines and complicated explanations, and less involvement of religion.
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Almost what I was writing about, but in far fewer lines and complicated explanations, and less involvement of religion.
I thought that too actually! That it sounded like some of the stuff you had been saying, and in that interpretation one could easily make the "go down, enemies one to another" thing about the spirit and the body and Satan and whatever.
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I thought that too actually! That it sounded like some of the stuff you had been saying, and in that interpretation one could easily make the "go down, enemies one to another" thing about the spirit and the body and Satan and whatever.
One's biggest enemy is oneself.
Be well
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https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAoME_aMm1w
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Salam,
I have not read the posts, but am responding to the thread title.
We are not on Earth because Adam sinned. We are on earth to fulfill the trial that we opted to accept - in return for immortality and a better life.
Adam and his wife's sin merely moved us from lush gardens to a challenging environment where we have to work for a living. It's like parents who emigrate from one place to the other and there kids end up struggling in the land.
