Is it wrong to participate in the christmas holiday?
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Peace to all,
Your right amuslim , it is a pagan tradition, in the old testament in Jeremiah theres a verse that says,,be not like the pagans, who cut down green trees and decorate them with silver and gols,,, when i say this to people they get all mad at me, i say im just quoting the bible, then they say well you can use the bible to justify anything,,
no kidding,
Kurt
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Maybe you forgot to tell us how you would participate ....
I mean, if you are gonna dress as santa and make those kids smile and laugh, i guess there's no harm in there but telling lies is sinful.
Yes, maybe I should mention the kind of participating I had in mind. That would be... going to the office christmas party, spending time with family, giving our children gifts... that's pretty much what I had in mind.
The origin of Christmas is pagan, why would you want to participate in it? As far as gifts go, why does it have to be at that time of the year? Do it year round.
My husband and I already do this year round, in many shapes.
I did not mean to undermine your statement, my observation is about the mockery of the festive seasons.
Ramadan too is season of spending on charities but why limit charities to festivity- May be to justify overspending.
Andya Primanda is right most festivals including Devali are all about consumerism.Thanks, but no problem... I just wanted to make it clear what I was talking about.
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Peace
Peace to all,
Your right amuslim , it is a pagan tradition, in the old testament in Jeremiah theres a verse that says,,be not like the pagans, who cut down green trees and decorate them with silver and gols,,, when i say this to people they get all mad at me, i say im just quoting the bible, then they say well you can use the bible to justify anything,,
no kidding,
Kurt
Thank you for pointing that out, that is exactly what it says. Christians however do not see this as pagan, its praising the birth of their god.
Theres also other stuff like December 25 being the birth of the sun God, but Christians state that this isnt valid. That zeitgeist movie has a lot of info on this, not exactly sure how old their sources are.
http//www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Peace,
So is the gregorian calendar, so are the days of the week, so are the names of planets.
Should we not use them?
The system of God is simple, let's not complicate it.
Thats different. You are just using that for a system of measurement. If you were to use it for a special purpose, then that would be a different story.
Same as Christmas. What exactly is so important that you need to participate in such a thing?
Lets say some people worship the sun, and they give gifts on this day. Are you saying that you should be able to participate in this event? As I stated, do this every year. What makes Christmas so special, other then that its pagan?
My husband and I already do this year round, in many shapes.
If thats the case, then why ask the question? I can see if you do this because you have a day off, so you just get together with family since its convenient. But to celebrate it, thats where the problem comes in IMO.
Peace
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Peace,
I'm not convinced it's a terrible thing to do. It's important that we don't worship any god besides God. Socializing at the office christmas party, hanging out with family and giving gifts doesn't do that from my point of view.
My parents are so happy when we come and spend the day with them. They are christian, but the talk of religion does not come up when we visit. Yes, they know I am muslim. It's just tradition to spend time together and give gifts.
And my office christmas party is not something to be taken as optional. After all, my attendance at the christmas party shows my attitude towards the company and reflects on me. It's really just the company doing something nice for the employees... it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with tradition.
Concentrating on it being a "pagan" holiday seems silly to me. We work with pagans every day, we take loans from pagans, we are treated at the hospital by pagans, our appliances/appliances are made by pagans, etc... the point is... just because we share the world with pagans doesn't mean we think the same way they do.
dotty
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Peace dotty
Peace,
I'm not convinced it's a terrible thing to do. It's important that we don't worship any god besides God. Socializing at the office christmas party, hanging out with family and giving gifts doesn't do that from my point of view.
My parents are so happy when we come and spend the day with them. They are christian, but the talk of religion does not come up when we visit. Yes, they know I am muslim. It's just tradition to spend time together and give gifts.
And my office christmas party is not something to be taken as optional. After all, my attendance at the christmas party shows my attitude towards the company and reflects on me. It's really just the company doing something nice for the employees... it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with tradition.
Concentrating on it being a "pagan" holiday seems silly to me. We work with pagans every day, we take loans from pagans, we are treated at the hospital by pagans, our appliances/appliances are made by pagans, etc... the point is... just because we share the world with pagans doesn't mean we think the same way they do.
dotty
I think thats another problem, being that it is a tradition. Again, you are asking for opinions so Im just giving my own and I dont mean to sound rude or anything like that, so forgive me if I come off that way or if I am too blunt
We can make contracts with them, its stated in the Quran. Im against celebrating it as a Holiday. Im that way with all holidays not sanctioned in Quran. As I mentioned, if its just because you have a day off and its convenient to spend time with your family during this year, then its a good point. If this is a day that makes other days feel different then Im against it.
As you said, you give all the time, which got me confused as to why you would want to do this holiday. But after reading your above paragraph, for me, that would be fine, so long that the holiday means nothing to you, and its just as every other day.
Peace
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I think thats another problem, being that it is a tradition. Again, you are asking for opinions so Im just giving my own and I dont mean to sound rude or anything like that, so forgive me if I come off that way or if I am too blunt
We can make contracts with them, its stated in the Quran. Im against celebrating it as a Holiday. Im that way with all holidays not sanctioned in Quran. As I mentioned, if its just because you have a day off and its convenient to spend time with your family during this year, then its a good point. If this is a day that makes other days feel different then Im against it.
As you said, you give all the time, which got me confused as to why you would want to do this holiday. But after reading your above paragraph, for me, that would be fine, so long that the holiday means nothing to you, and its just as every other day.
You're right amuslim, I am just asking for opinions, so I don't feel you are being rude at all. It's not a huge day for me, I just think it makes sense to participate as requested by people around you. I know where my heart is at.
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Peace Amuslim,
We meet again jedi ;D
Thats different. You are just using that for a system of measurement. If you were to use it for a special purpose, then that would be a different story.
Same as Christmas. What exactly is so important that you need to participate in such a thing?
Lets say some people worship the sun, and they give gifts on this day. Are you saying that you should be able to participate in this event? As I stated, do this every year. What makes Christmas so special, other then that its pagan?
But that's the thing, a lot of non-christians and christians 'celebrate' christmas. Not for what it is, but to give to others. There are a lot of charities at this time of the year that focus on giving. I see nothing wrong with that. I believe it's the minority that focus on the Jesus aspect.
I don't need to participate in it; I haven't before. I just see nothing wrong with it. As long as the focus is not on jesus, which it rarely is. They even have laws in the states for these sort of things. I.E. say "Happy holidays" and NOT "Merry christmas"
There's nothing special about christmas. It's just a time of the year that's designated to something specific.
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Peace,
I'm not convinced it's a terrible thing to do. It's important that we don't worship any god besides God.
And my office christmas party is not something to be taken as optional. After all, my attendance at the christmas party shows my attitude towards the company and reflects on me. It's really just the company doing something nice for the employees... it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with tradition.
We work with pagans every day, we take loans from pagans, we are treated at the hospital by pagans, our appliances/appliances are made by pagans, etc... the point is... just because we share the world with pagans doesn't mean we think the same way they do.
dotty
Salaam dotty
You asked our opinion so My parents are so happy when we come and spend the day with them. They are christian, but the talk of religion does not come up when we visit. Yes, they know I am muslim. It's just tradition to spend time together and give gifts.
The rights of parents are clearly stated in the Qur?an and in my opinion visiting your Christian parents on Xmas is the best sadaqa as those moments of happiness you give to them by participating in their festival is ?lowering your wings in humbleness? to them.
Socializing at the office christmas party, hanging out with family and giving gifts doesn't do that from my point of view. . I agree that office parties are just a social event and have no religious value, but I would avoid eating any food dedicated to Christ, for example hot cross buns etc
Concentrating on it being a "pagan" holiday seems silly to me.If one does not want to go to Hajj for fear that there may be pagan rituals involved there, why not avoid the pagan ritual of Christmas?
However we have to think of rights of children too so when my children were small I decorated my house with bits and bobs and even had gifts for the children on Christmas including the stocking surprise so that my children would not feel at all that our way of life is sad; (you can?t argue with children especially when you are in minority) but at the same time I kept reminding them that this is just for fun and I do not believe in it. Now that my children have grown up no one bothers about the consumerism of Christmas. May Allah forgive me for wrongs I have done
Best regards
farida -
Peace DArgento,
Peace Amuslim,
We meet again jedi ;D
But that's the thing, a lot of non-christians and christians 'celebrate' christmas. Not for what it is, but to give to others. There are a lot of charities at this time of the year that focus on giving. I see nothing wrong with that. I believe it's the minority that focus on the Jesus aspect.
I don't need to participate in it; I haven't before. I just see nothing wrong with it. As long as the focus is not on jesus, which it rarely is. They even have laws in the states for these sort of things. I.E. say "Happy holidays" and NOT "Merry christmas"
There's nothing special about christmas. It's just a time of the year that's designated to something specific.
handshake
I enjoy the conversations with everyone on this board, provides insights and other POV on the subjects, so thanks.
Also sorry if it came out directed at you, I meant "you need" as a general statement. Perhaps I should go into greater detail as not everyone is thinking the exact same thing I am at that time D
I remember hearing about the Happy Holidays, I think it was started by the ACLU? Ive watched TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) and the 700 Club, and they always take shots at the ACLU because of this.
My problem with Christmas and all holidays is that people only do it or focus on this act at this time, when it would be better to just do it the whole year. Also, not necessarily the act of giving, but just the thought itself, similar to the God consciousness.
This also comes into play with seasonal Muslims during Ramadan, when they treat it as a holiday as well.
Peace
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Peace All
There are some warnings in the Quran about not taking People of the book as friends or protectors as that would make us one of them. I don't know if that applies here. On the other hand the importance of our intention is underlined again and again.
My general take is that in order to be able to influence people you need to maintain respect and good relations with them. Going to a Christmas party or spending time and presents in the company of your family is one of those things we may need to do to maintain good relations. hmm
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However we have to think of rights of children too so when my children were small I decorated my house with bits and bobs and even had gifts for the children on Christmas including the stocking surprise so that my children would not feel at all that our way of life is sad; (you can?t argue with children especially when you are in minority) but at the same time I kept reminding them that this is just for fun and I do not believe in it.
This too has become a topic with our 6 year old daughter. Recently she said she doesn't want to be muslim anymore so she can celebrate christmas. We live in a small town with no other muslim families for miles around. She is too small to be able to handle her surroundings in that way. I completely understand her feelings. She can't stand it that santa is coming to her school and she can't see him. What's the harm... a big fat jolly man brings gifts to children on christmas eve. A fabricated story for children. I think it is far more important to put our daughter's focus on what islam means and that there is only one God. She will learn the real meaning of the christmas holidays as she becomes older.
dotty
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This too has become a topic with our 6 year old daughter. Recently she said she doesn't want to be muslim anymore so she can celebrate christmas. We live in a small town with no other muslim families for miles around. She is too small to be able to handle her surroundings in that way. I completely understand her feelings. She can't stand it that santa is coming to her school and she can't see him. What's the harm... a big fat jolly man brings gifts to children on christmas eve. A fabricated story for children. I think it is far more important to put our daughter's focus on what islam means and that there is only one God. She will learn the real meaning of the christmas holidays as she becomes older.
dotty
Salaam dotty,
Allah knows secrets of our hearts and is most merciful. I hope you make most of holiday season with your six year old daughter. These are wonderful moments and do take picture of her when she is enjoying bit of pampering on this occasion. Your little flexibility today will pay back later insha?Allah and soon she will be big enough to understand meaning of consumerism and real Santa.
Lots of love to your little one
Best regards
farida -
Peace G Omar
Peace All
There are some warnings in the Quran about not taking People of the book as friends or protectors as that would make us one of them. I don't know if that applies here. On the other hand the importance of our intention is underlined again and again.
My general take is that in order to be able to influence people you need to maintain respect and good relations with them. Going to a Christmas party or spending time and presents in the company of your family is one of those things we may need to do to maintain good relations. hmm
First off, those so called Christians that believe in the divinity of Jesus are not People of the Book, they are in a different group classified in the Quran and are disbelievers/pagans.
Peace
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Peace Amuslim,
My problem with Christmas and all holidays is that people only do it or focus on this act at this time, when it would be better to just do it the whole year. Also, not necessarily the act of giving, but just the thought itself, similar to the God consciousness.
This also comes into play with seasonal Muslims during Ramadan, when they treat it as a holiday as well.
Peace
Well you can't afford to be giving all year long, can you? I do agree with what you are saying, but let's be realistic.
First off, those so called Christians that believe in the divinity of Jesus are not People of the Book, they are in a different group classified in the Quran and are disbelievers/pagans.
Based on what? Have you actually cross-referenced the term as used in al-quran?