Layth's new article "The Night of Decree (Laylat Al-Qadr)"

ayman

Peace IQO,

How many have read Layth's new article here? http//free-minds.org/articles/science/qadr.htm
I am curious to know how many people agree or disagree with the conclusions contained therein.

I think that there are many silent assumptions in the article that need to be justified. For example, it assumes that "qadr" means "decree". However, looking at how the word is used in the great reading, we can see that it is better translated as "measure".

Also, the article creates a contradiction in the great reading where it claims that on the one hand 2185 says that the great reading was revealed in a "month" and on the other hand 971-5 say that it was revealed in 1 night. Which is it, a month or a night?

Some other quick questions
December 21 or 22 corresponds with what season or time in the Middle East (Saudi/Jerusalaam area)?

This is the start of winter in the northern hemisphere (where the whole Middle East is located).

Does anyone who is familiar with weather patterns and climate change know whether or not the climate in the Middle East where Isa was born could have changed drastically over the last 2000 years so that it's seasons are at different times now?

There is no evidence that weather changed drastically over that period.

Do you feel that it is a stretch to declare the "longest night" as the Night of Power without any further evidence other than it makes sense since Allah prefers the night and therefore must have chosen the longest one?

In my opinion, quality is more important than quantity. So how long a night would be is irrelevant. This is confirmed in 7320.

Is the longest night in America or North America the longest night in all the northern hemisphere? (We know it's not in the Southern Hemisphere)

Yes.

Considering my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15667.0
Wouldn't fasting only be required for those on Hajj or for expiation of sins?

This question was already answered on that thread.

Peace,

Ayman

Jack

Too bad Layth doesn't post here anymore. I would like to see a debate between Ayman and Layth.

ImamQuranonly

Too bad Layth doesn't post here anymore. I would like to see a debate between Ayman and Layth.

Salaams Ayman and House M.D.,

When and why did Layth stop posting on the forum? (if anyone knows)

I will try to respond more lengthy to your post later ayman, time is short right now and I am trying to get to a few posts. But thank you very much for your answers.

As Salaamu Alaikum, peace

Jack

Peace IQO,

Long time. FYI he's the owner of the site.

ImamQuranonly

Peace IQO,

Long time. FYI he's the owner of the site.

Salaams House M.D.,

I knew he was the site owner! ignore I just thought he only posted rarely or sparingly..I didn't know he COMPLETELY stopped posting in the forum; and if so, for what reason.

As Salaamu Alaikum, peace

ImamQuranonly

Winter Solstice/Yule is the longest night of the year. It is a Pagan holiday, when the return of the sun is celebrated, as the days are about to get longer. At this time, there is a battle between the Holly King & Oak King, in which the Oak, repesenting lighter times, will win.
Also in the Celtic/Druidic calendar, this would be the Nameless Day. This is the day in between the old year and the new year in the Druidic tree calendar, repesented by mistletoe.
Many common Christmas symbols actually came from Winter Solstice when the Christians were trying to convert the Pagans in the Middle Ages. (Evergreen tree, mistletoe, yule logs, etc.)

Wakas

Layth sometimes has difficulty accessing the site due to his location, hence his posts being rare.

adjwi

Peace all,

I began reading Layth's article and noticed his use of Christ. Is it just me or how is it other readers silently accept the use of that word for Jesus when at no times it is used in the Qu'ran? Why does Layth do that? I don't think this is helpful in improving an understanding. Any thoughts?

adjwi

Layth

Salam,

The Quran uses the title of Meseeh for Jesus in several verses. Maseeh carries the meaning of one purified/wiped. Christ or Messiah are English translations which carry the same meaning annointed one.

Please clarify your objection as I am not sure I have understood.

Thanks )

adjwi

Salam,

The Quran uses the title of Meseeh for Jesus in several verses. Maseeh carries the meaning of one purified/wiped. Christ or Messiah are English translations which carry the same meaning annointed one.

Please clarify your objection as I am not sure I have understood.

Thanks

Peace Layth,

When I read Christ, I think Christian, neither of those words are found in the Qur'an. It's not that they didn't exist and that the author couldn't have included them. The fact is the author didn't use those words. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the word for those who followed Jesus was ''nasareen''. That word would have the same root as ansar allah.

So the Qur'an would refer to Jesus as al-Massih and those who followed him with a word having a different root, nasara which has over 100 occurances in it's different forms in the Qur'an. This must mean something, no? As for Christ, my understanding is that that particular word may have been used prior to Jesus, for other people. Now there is only one al-massih and that is also an important characteristic of Jesus, only one.

Anoint is a term which relates to oil, whereas masahah seems to refer to water, not the same thing when you consider the value of water. I was explained that the motion that seems to relate to masahah is to the head, with water, the forehead, the brain, the memory, that is soiled from a past. Images come.

To me Christ is flat, blinding, the resurrection etc... It doesn't belong within the straight path of islam; just a term that leads astray. Why use it if it isn't in the book? Leave it to those who don't use the book, seems to me the better option, no?

I really liked reading the content of your article, especially the link to the birth of Jesus being in September, and the conception being in December. I like where that 9 month period finds itself, where it begins and where it ends. The last part about the 10 days isn't clear for me, especially who you conclude in the last paragraph, I don't get it.

What your article made me reflect though is the distinction between conception and birth. If I am not mistaken, the description of the word ramadam is being presented by some people, including Ayman, as the month of scorching heat, whose description seems better fitting for September than December. Could it be then that Mohammad, individually received the Qur'an in December during the night of destiny like Mary was empregnated but that the birth of the Qur'an for the people would have occured at the same time in the calendar as the birth of Jesus? Didn't Mary fast after Jesus was born?

I'm not up to date with all that's been written here in the forum and I'm not sure what the order of months is according to description of the words but is it suggested that the beginning of the year happen around the ''night of destiny''?

adjwi

Layth

Salam,

Thank you for your comments.

The title christ was used in reference to Jesus and not in reference to his followers. In any case, I have replaced the word in the article with Messiah since it is more Quranically correct as you have pointed out.

With regards to Maseh refering to water, that is not totally correct. Even clean dirt can be used to wipe with (see 443, 56). Jesus is the only prophet to carry the title of Maseeh since he was wiped clean of the genetic sin that plauges humanity by the process of the his special birth (no human father) - this is why God gives the example of Jesuss creation as that of Adams.

On the Ramadhan being different from the night of decree, I do not see that being the case as the Quran is referred to as being sent down both in that night and for that month - this is my view is why people fast around that month - since it is blessed by the night of decree when the angels and the spirit have come down to carry out god`s commands.

adjwi

Peace IQO,

I think that there are many silent assumptions in the article that need to be justified. For example, it assumes that "qadr" means "decree". However, looking at how the word is used in the great reading, we can see that it is better translated as "measure".

Also, the article creates a contradiction in the great reading where it claims that on the one hand 2185 says that the great reading was revealed in a "month" and on the other hand 971-5 say that it was revealed in 1 night. Which is it, a month or a night?

A few thoughts about these questions. If we read ''measurement'' with that night, couldn't we see a the quality of permanence with such a fixed night in terms of lenght as well as the aspect of quantity? The value I read with ''laylutul quadri'' being on the night of winter solstice includes quantity (lenght), permanence (fixed meaurement), quality (knowledgeable).

As for the month of ramadam, because it's moving in the seasons, the winter solstice could well find itself within that month and not. What intrigues me is if I start a count of revelation having the month of ramadam and the night of meaurement together, than if I count the 23 years the revelation of the qur'an is given to have lasted, this would bring us at the time the dates are ripe, wouldn't it? I'll answer myself in this edit. No it wouldn't, because the lunar calendar evovles backwards in the seaons; hence the month of Ramadam would find itself in spring and not in the fall. Never-the-less...Why then couldn't the revelation of the Qur'an im the month of Ramadam refereed to in 2185 not be aluding to the revelation for mankind as Mohammed gains Yathrib? Couldn't we distinquish the difference between the Quoran at the beginning of revelation, let's say winter solstice, and the Qur'an for the people, as per 2185, presumeably when Mohammad arrives in Madina, 13 years after the beginning which would then set us in the months of scorching heat?

Please view this as thought in process.

adjwi

adjwi

Thank you for your comments.

The title christ was used in reference to Jesus and not in reference to his followers. In any case, I have replaced the word in the article with Messiah since it is more Quranically correct as you have pointed out.

Peace Layth,

Well thank-you. The relation between the words christ and christian seeds the cult of a person. The use of messiah doesn't nourish such error. Believing in Jesus Christ and believing Jesus was the messiah are indeed expressions of different faiths. I appreciate your correction.

adjwi