ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
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Peace, Arnold.
Great post. )
.... Plus I reject the concept of worship as this does not serve Mankind or gives God any pleasure since He is Ahad, complete. So any action must be for our own development.
This is interesting, as I've always had my doubts about the meaning of the word "abd" (Plurar "ibad".
I am convinced it means "servant" NOT "worshipper". So both humans and jinns (unseen forces) were created to SERVE God.
Classical (sectarian) translation { I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to worship Me. }
Progressive translation { I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me. }
The word "worship" brings to mind empty mechanical rituals. But, as humans are God's vicegerents (khalifa) on this Earth, we have been given the responsiblity of "building" or developing this Earth by applying God's system (deen). As such, rituals cannot fulfill this purpose.
The sectarians have made a mockery of Islam by restricting it to a set of 5 so-called "pillars". But a closer look at these 5 pillars will reveal that they are in fact nothing but empty rituals of "worship", which provide ZERO benefit to mankind. This is why all the nations of the world have gone ahead of us.
The "Kafir" western scientist, who has invested his entire life trying to find a cure for deseases (benefit mankind) , or developed computer chip technology, or made cellular phones possible, for example, is going straight to Hell. Whereas the Muslim today, who has done nothing whatsoever to help mankind in any way, will have all the doors of Heaven open to him, and his promised virgins waiting for him, just because he has fullfilled his 5 daily prayers, or spun 7 times around a cube covered with black cloth (while living his entire life here on Earth, and making use of the technologies that the Kafir West have innovated).
If fact, I do not even think a parallel for the word "worship" exists in the classic Arabic language, let alone the Quran. Correct me if I'm wrong. I have yet to find such a word.
Again, this proves that the "Islam" being applied today is nothing but an empty shell - a religion of rituals and nothing else, created by the corrupt Sultans of the Abbasid era. The hadith of the "5 pillars" is a satanic innovation by these Sultans, who wanted to transform God's system into an opium to subdue the masses. And convert the Umma from serving God to serving THEM (the Sultans).
Most people I know as atheist are interested in my understanding of God and the Universe as it answers many problematic questions.
Yes, I can see that. It is in atheists that we have to place all our hopes. Because the sectarians are beyond help.
Peace...
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Salaam all,
A small reminder for the people
I do not mind answering your questions as always as they are very good and challenging, but as I dislike chaotic discussions I request no one to interfere or intervene while discussion. Please start another thread when there is need for discussions by other members.
I am very busy with many projects and my fulltime job, so I like to keep this thread as neat as possible so we stay on the subject.
But dear pazuzu, you are an exception
I had a meeting with Dr.Muhammed Shahroor from Syria (see at the booksection "The Book & the Quran" in London 3 months ago where we discussed these subjects. I can already assure you that Abd is only linked to "service" and that the concept of worship was introduced later by the Christian Arabs. Many words Sunni's use are infact Christian words and defintions introduced by the Christian Arabs around 300CE and thus are alien words and conceptions. Words as "sin", "worship", "prayer", "forgive" are not found in the Quranic language itself but were later introduced through the Tafseers/Explanations in a time where Persian and Christian philosophy hold sway in the Muslim world.
Ithm=to drag behind as a tail/to harm someone, Zulm=to displace something, Salat=To follow the 1st horse/to be shaped as a twig into an arrow/attachment, Ghafara=to be protected from dirt or harm, Ghafour=The Protector. Ghafour-Raheem=The Provider of Protection (by guiding us with the Quran), commonly mistranslated as "the Forgiver, the Merciful".
In fact, Forgiveness is not present in the Quran
6918-20 On the Day you will be brought, not a single hidden deed of yours will
remain hidden. Then he who is given his record in his right hand, will say, ?Come
all of you around! Read this my record. Behold, I always thought that my
account would be given to me.?Forgiveness means the ignoring of deeds done, which the above verse clearly denies, also forgiveness is about PERSONAL salvation while the Quran focusses on Universal development. The Quran is very practical, one must compensate for the deeds done
11114 Strive to establish and consolidate the Divine System, day and night.
Actions that create balance in the society/Al-Hassanat remove the ill effects of inequities/Al-Sayyi.Good deeds remove bad deeds. This is a Reminder for those who pay attention.Al-Hassanat=Ha-Siin-Nun = To be handsome, make good, seem good/beautiful/comely/pleasing, be excellent, make or render a thing good or goodly, to beautify/embellish/adorn a thing, strive or compete in goodness, to do good or act well, act or behave with goodness or in a pleasing manner towards a person, confer a benefit or benefits upon a person, act graciously with a person, know a thing well, beautify/embellish/adorn oneself, reckon/account/esteem a person to be good/beautiful/pleasing.
Al-Sayyi=Siin-Waw-Alif = to treat badly, do evil to disgrace, be evil/wicked/vicious, ill, anything that makes a person sad and sorrowful, bad action, mischief and corruption, sin, evil doer, wretched or grievous, vex, annoy. su'atun (pl. suat) - corpse, external portion of both sexes, shame.
2147 We will set up the Scales of justice on the Day of Resurrection, and no
person will be wronged in the least. Though the good or evil be of the weight
of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth. We are Sufficient for reckoning and
none can take account as We do.And Allah made it easy for us
- He who does a good deed will receive ten times its worth; and he who does evil will be requited to an equal degree; and no one will be wronged.
1 good deed=10x
1 bad deed=1xSo compensation is so easy.....
And all good or bad deeds can only directed at mankind itself as Allah is beyond harm or needs. This is why we must feed the poor, create peace and justice and so on.
Dr.Shahroor mentioned one special meaning of Ibad that is found in the dictionaries which was also confirmed to me by Samia later on. Ibad also means "to obey or disobey" and so Dr.Shahroor says this verse
I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me.
Means
I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to obey or disobey Me.
And so the verse is directly connected to Free Will/Ruh/Wind going any direction.
And no dear Pazuzu, we have to place hope and confidence in ALL humans. It has nothing to do with how much they are blinded by tradition, it has to do with OUR persistence and strength...That some persons are more reasonable is a different story.
Remember
1287 ?O My sons! Go and find Joseph and his brother and never despair of
the soothing Ruh of God. None but those that hide from the Truth despair of the soothing Ruh of God.?3953 Convey to them, "O You servants of Mine who have so far wasted their
potential! Despair not of the Ruh of God (His rejuvenating attribute) Indeed,
God absolves your imperfections and protects you from the detriment of all
that caused you to trail behind in humanity ? For, He is Provider of Protection for those who strive for it.Ruh/Rihun means Wind, Power, Dominance, Conquest, Good and pure thing, Mercy, Aid against the Enemy.
Dear amuslim
What if the people decided as a whole and united group that there is no God? Would that unification be enough, as you stated that the Qurans point is to unify the people?
No, unification is only part of the story. Plus, agreeing on only a subject as God does not bring peace on Earth. Unification in the Quran is meant to give Peace, and the Quran says Peace is only attained when we believe that the Universe has a Goal and we will be confronted with the results of our deeds in this Life and the Next One and that we all must work for the Development of Mankind (1317), only through this will we attain Peace on Earth.
Also, regarding Yaumiddeen, when it talks about The Spirit, Jesus, etc. all being there, is this a fixed place in time? Meaning, are we all there to witness this event together? The Quran states that we will see people there that we know. So, I take it that this is a special event? Is this after Allah has closes' the universe and before Allah reopens it?
The Universal Information Field/QuantumField/Umm Al-Kitab will be accessable by us all in the Next Phase/Akhira. Yauwme means Era or Period but also a moment. Time is relative so that question is hard to answer, but what I understand is that we all have access to each other through the Quantum Field in the Next Life, I am writing a small book on this subject, I hope to have finished it in the upcoming months inshAllah.
You also stated before that it will be like this life, Janaat. Now, where exactly are the people that are in Jahannam? I know you stated before that it is the evolution of the person, but where are they physically? Do they still live together like we do here?
The Quran clearly states that our creation in the new Universe is as the creation in this life, see
225 O Mankind! If you are in doubt that humanity will one day stand at its feet, and that you will be resurrected back to life after death, consider the process of your own evolution/creation through stages. We have created you in stages From dust, then from male and female gametes, then from a zygote, then from an embryo, shapely and first shapeless. We thus clearly explain things for you. The embryo and then the fetus stay in the womb until an appointed term according to Our Laws. Then We bring you forth as infants and carry you to maturity. While some of you die young, others live to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after knowing much. (Resurgence of humanity can take place just as) you, O Prophet, see a dry barren land, but when We send down water on it, it vibrates with life and grows all kinds of beautiful plants.
This comparison is made with a definite purpose. We know through Quantum phyiscs that this Universe will implode and explode again into a new Bigbang. When the new Bigbang has occured, the Blueprint of the Universe that is inscribed into the fabric of the Quantum Field, the Energy Field that sustains this whole Universe, is activated and the creation will start over again.
But as the Quantum Field contains all information that is created in the previous Universe and that the Universe works through a process of Evolution, one important factor is different.
Evolution only preserves that within in a species that is good for the species itself. Thus any human which deeds were bad for the progress of Mankind will be kicked out of the process of creation through the laws of Evolution.
Thus this personality will not take part anymore in the process of Evolution and is in a state of Jahannam, which was the name of the old garbagedump in Jerusalem. Literally the person is dumped outside of the evolutionaire process.
All personalities that were benefitting the human species will be accepted and brought back into the Creation process. These personalities will be born again and will have access to the information in the Qunatum Field thus enabling them to have access to their knowledge and thoughts of their First Life.
These people are in a State of Jannah, Jannah means a Garden, and thus refers to growth, meaning development. The humans in the Next Life will have new abilities and because they have access to all the information of the First Life as contained in the Quantum Field, including the Scriptures, they will build up a society that will be amazing.
All personalities that wanted violence, war, greed and so on, are not present anymore in this new Life as they are kicked out of the Creation process, thus the new Earth will be a Heaven created by the new Mankind from which they will spread out and inhabitate the Universe.
Thus there are no limits for the New Mankind. I believe the persons who have damaged Mankind will be non-existed. Only some of the people in the state of Jahannam will be purified and can move on to further Development.
Who is Haroot and Maroot? If they are Malikah, based on your understanding (which I find very logical, thanks to you), how did they teach the people "magic"? I know that the Quran says that they used it for bad purposes (when it could have been used for good). Could this have just been knowledge itself?
Haroot and Maroot were Babylonian legends taken up by the Jews while being in Babylonia and they used these as an excuse for believing in magic
QXP
2102 (They followed conjecture in the past as well) Some
rebellious folk spread a rumor in the Kingdom of Solomon.
Solomon never disbelieved in the Divine Laws, but the rebellious
ones did. They fabricated a story that two angels Harut and Marut
had descended in Babylon and taught magic to some people - and
that they used to warn people, ?We are only a temptation,
therefore be not oblivious to the rational Divine Laws.? The rumor
further stated that people learned magic from both of them and
how to create discord between a man and his wife. These things
can neither harm nor benefit anyone since nothing happens in the
Universe contrary to the immutable Divine Laws of Nature. And
what they try to learn only harms them and profits them not.
Indeed, they ought to know that any person indulging in this trade
(the so-called ?Occult sciences?) will be a loser in the long run, and
shall have no portion in the Hereafter. And certainly, evil is the
price for which they sell their humanity, if they only knew better.I also must say I was surprised about the Virgin birth and how it is accepted by Christians and even Muslims as a fact when it is just mere assumption. I read your article and it was quite easy to understand.
These are the leftovers from our ancestors who did not understand Nature and believed only in the power of a deity when it did something supernatural. This is also how many kings and priests could sustain their power over the people as they claimed to have special powers.
To understand the Quran we must use science, reason, logic, old-Arabic and try to understand why people understood some stories in such supernatural ways, then we can really understand what went wrong and how we can do it right..
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Peace Arnold,
Thank you again. I feel guilty for asking you questions when you have a job and plenty of other things going. If I may ask one more question regarding your thoughts on the New Life, will it literally be us as we are, or just be like our descendants based off of our own development in this current life?
Peace
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Salaam dear amuslim,
Please do not feel guilty as I can handle one questioner at a time, and since you always ask good questions, I will always make time for you.
Just as Evolution, every new stage means a higher form of species that has more abilities, is smarter and so on. BUT, Allah says also that our Nafs will be present again in the Next Life. So this means that Allah has made an exception in His Laws, we as humans will return again, only we will then have higher developed bodies and our Nafs will have complete access to the Umm Al-Kitab, the Quantum Field.
We will be a whole new form of Life, with endless abilities, but with the this Nafs. This is also why we must EARN this new stage of existence. This Life is granted to us for free, this is the Attribute of Rahman=The Source of all who gives without ever been asked for it.
But the Next Life/Akhira is based on Raheem=The Provider of further Development for those who strive for this.
So you must work hard to earn the next stage of development, as this stage was for free. This is a fair Law.
Our new abilities and state
3217 And no human being can imagine what blissful delights are kept
hidden for them as a reward for what they used to do.225 Convey the happy news to those who have chosen to be graced
with belief, and have done acts of service to humanity. For them will be
a most pleasant reward, Paradise in both lives. (Try to understand it in
the current human vocabulary.) - Plush Gardens with streams flowing
underneath! When they are provided with the delicious fruit of their
deeds, they will say, This is what we were provided before. They had
tasted some of the reward in this world. They will be given sustenance
that will recall their past. These men and women will have pure
companions therein, an everlasting happy family life.They will not hear any nonsense therein; only peace. They receive their provisions therein, day and night.
Enter Paradise, together with your spouses, and rejoice.
Offered to them will be golden trays and cups, and they will find everything the hearts desire and the eyes wish for. You live therein forever.
Such is the Paradise that you inherit, in return for your works.
You will have in it all kinds of fruits, from which you eat.Muhammed Ali
3920 But those who keep their duty to
their Lord, for them are high places,
above them higher places,a built (for
them), wherein rivers flow. (It is) the
promise of All?h. All?h fails not in
(His) promise.20a. This shows that in the Hereafter, and in this life as well, there is an unceasing
progress, for the high places to which the righteous attain have places still higher above
them.668 O you who believe, turn to All?h
with sincere repentance. It may be
your Lord will remove from you
your evil and cause you to enter
Gardens wherein flow rivers, on the
day on which All?h will not abase
the Prophet and those who believe
with him. Their light will gleam
before them and on their right hands
they will say Our Lord, make
perfect for us our light, and grant us
protection; surely Thou art Possessor
of power over all things.a8a. Paradise is, therefore, not only a place to enjoy the blessings and reap the
reward of ones previous good deeds, but it is also the starting-point of a never-ceasing
spiritual advancement. The prayer for the perfection of the light is really an unceasing
desire for perfection, showing that spiritual progress in that life will be endless. Every
stage of excellence to which man will attain will seem to be imperfect when compared
with the next stage of progress to which man will aspire. Thus the Holy Qur?n teaches
the principle that the development of mans faculties, as it takes place in this life, however
unlimited, is not sealed by finality. The Hereafter is really the starting-point
towards an immeasurably wider vista of the realms to be traversed, opening out after
death, when the soul is liberated from the limitations of its casement of clay. Hence it is
also that those who have wasted their opportunity in this life shall, under the inevitable
law which makes every man taste of what he has done, be subjected to a course of treatment
for the spiritual diseases which they have brought about with their own hands, and
when the effect of the poison which vitiated their system has been nullified and they are
fit to start on the onward journey to the great goal, they will no more be in hell. -
I also recommend these chapters
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR_3.htm
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR_10.htm
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR_12.htm
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Peace Arnold
Do I have you premission to print you first answer to amuslim?
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Salaam Niminimak,
For your own use you can print them of course. When it comes from spreading I believe it is better until I have finished my Quran Tafseer and the book "Phases of the Universe" as then the whole thoughtline is explained.
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Thanks Arnold
I prefer to read on paper then PC screen.
I won't spread it but i intend to show it to my dad after i have read it.
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I can also email you the PDF versions of my articles if needed, just PM me.
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Peace Arnold,
Thank you for understanding my yearn for the truth. Your explanations of the Quran make a lot of sense even to so called athiests, or better, deist. I have a few things that are tattering in my skull. I do not want you to feel as if I rush you, I can wait a week or a month if you are too busy, I appreciate the help.
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When Allah says that he took a promise with all the prophets regarding Muhammad, was this prior to this life? Howed that work?
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What exactly is Salat? I see your definition on it on your messages here, but do you think there is a literal prayer? If not, what is Wudu for then? Also, if we are to take out traditions, why even do wudu? I know that it also states that God wants us to be clean, so I can understand the reasons for wudu for that reason in particular. There are also the psychological reasons that many Muslims talk about as it changes your state of mind. What is your opinion on this?
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Is there are a real literal qiblah in your opinion? Could the qiblah (focal point) just mean where your thoughts and intentions are directed (ie Allah) at? I know this may go against your concept of not worshipping God, but I believe that your reasoning for that was just that Islams MAIN reason was not for worship?
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Why does Quran talk about being "deaf, dumb, and blind" like the animals? Is it because they operate on instinct while we operate on intellect (or at least should)?
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I asked this in the other thread but I wasnt exactly sure on the answer. When animals enter the next life, are their own personal nafs there as well or is that just for the humans? Do they evolve to a higher state of being or do they just stay at that level? Also the trees, bacteria, etc.
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Do we get anything out of worshipping God? I know we shouldnt think that way, but Id just like to know if there are benefits to doing so?
Ive also been pondering about your talk on Jesus again. Im not sure if you mentioned it in your articles (I read it but it has so much information, thats a good thing , but couldn't also when God says "He could have chosen anyone" regarding the Son of God, isnt that a refute again against Jesus being a Virgin Birth? I was wondering to myself, "God knows that Christians believe he is of a Virgin birth, so why doesn't he out right say it isnt so?", when I was reading your message on how the quran mentions about "Fathers, sons, and brethen" deal when it talks of the prophets. Today it hit me regarding the refutation on Jesus being the Son of God, and I think its a clear stance against it.
Thanks again!
Off topic Bit of a personal question, but were you born into an arabic speaking family or did you just learn arabic (classical) on your own?
Peace
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Salaam amuslim,
It is no problem, and sometimes your questions were already answered by other great scholars as Muhammed Ali, Muhammed Asad, Dr.Shabbir, G.A.Parwez and so on, so I just quote them when convenient.
- When Allah says that he took a promise with all the prophets regarding Muhammad, was this prior to this life? Howed that work?
Muhammed Ali
http//www.ahmadiyya.org/english-quran/ch003-123.pdf
Please see his commentary on page 6-7 on verse 380-81.
- What exactly is Salat? I see your definition on it on your messages here, but do you think there is a literal prayer? If not, what is Wudu for then? Also, if we are to take out traditions, why even do wudu? I know that it also states that God wants us to be clean, so I can understand the reasons for wudu for that reason in particular. There are also the psychological reasons that many Muslims talk about as it changes your state of mind. What is your opinion on this?
I do not believe it is prayer.As said before, I do not believe God intervenes in the Universe as He does not change His Kalimat/Decrees and none can make Him alter His words . Many of the verses that seem God intervening are in reality talking about the working of His Laws in the Universe. As far as I have understood is that God only intervenes through communication with Mankind, as I believe for example the people of Lot were destroyed by the surrounding nations who were ordered by God to do so, that Sodom (means burned in Hebrew) and Ghomorra (means buried) were destroyed by war is confirmed by discoveries made in the 70's as it revealed that Darb al-Bhar and Numeri were burned and buried after being attacked by armies and these are the only 2 cities that coincide with the story of Lot.
So God does not answer prayers through intervention. What we do see though is something other. For example the Quran mentions people praying for peace or food, and how does the Quran answer, by telling us Muslims to protect these people and feed the poor. So it are HUMANS who answer the prayers of other humans. God wants us to be a self-sufficient species just as the Universe and nature is self-sufficient.
For example
Prayer for help
475 ..... Defenseless men, women, and children are being oppressed and
crying, "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are
oppressors, and raise for us protectors and helpers."Answer
475 What has happened to you that you do not fight in the cause of
God?See also
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/kt/kt_17.htmA simple prayer can work as a psychological reminder for yourself as seen in the Quran with the prayers of the Prophets who call out to God and He answers through communication/Wahi or they understood their goal through verbalizing the wish or need, but a prayer as form of worship as a completely different goal personal salvation.
The concept for the need of spirituality and prayer is a psychological reaction to the chaos on earth and the feeling of being not connected to God. This need to feel connected with God comes from that the Quranic System is not present on Earth and so this emptiness is filled with a self-imposed ritual. This is how the elite and priest-classes subdued the masses and kept them busy with personal salvation and the pursuit of personal satisifaction of their inner need.
In this way people were not busy with understanding the Quranic message and creating its system.
This is also directly what the Quran warns us for
1071 Have you seen him who proclaims allegiance to the Divine
System, but denies it in action?
1072 Indeed, he is the one who repels the orphan, the widow, the
helpless, the one in a lonely state.
1073 And urges not the feeding of the needy. And participates not in
helping those who have lost their jobs, whose businesses have stalled,
and whose hard earned income is insufficient to meet their basic needs.
1074 Ah, woe to the praying ones!
1075 Those who know not what their Salat is meant to be.
1076 They only want to be seen and praised.
1077 And, with all this, they hinder the flow of sustenance (by
hoarding).The people are not busy with creating a System where the WHOLE of Humanity is fed, they are busy with praying and rituals and personal salvation. In verse 4 Salat is used as worship prayer, but in verse 5 we are pointed it out that the true Salat is the feeding of the poor and taking care of all human needs.
I believe Salat means to follow the whole System of the Quran just as animals follow their instinct (2441), we must our instinct given in the Quran. It also means to reform ourselves just as a twig is bent to make it straight to make it an arrow (al-Salla). Allama Mashriqi says that Salat is
"Is nothing else but arrangement and order, concord of the community and obedience to the leader, public spirit and self-command, battle against firmness towards the enemy, deliberateness and jusitice. Control of land and sea, as reptiles have it, command of the air as birds have it. All Westerners know what Salat means, occupying the earth from to bottom".
He get all the above meanings from the root meanings of Salat
arrangement and order=to walk straight as a running horse (musalli=the one following) that follows the Sabiq(1st horse)
concord of the community and obedience to the leader=The pursuit of Human Development is the Sabiq we must follow so we are musalli. This is why we must follow the chosen Khalif as he or she is then the chosen Sabiq of the community which the makes the whole ummah musalli, those that follow the 1st horse. This is also explained in the verse
7443 They will reply, "We were not of the Musalleen.
As they did not follow the System of God nor followed the pursuit of Human development.
public spirit and self-command, battle against firmness towards the enemy, deliberateness and jusitice=Iqama-asSalat. Iqama comes from Qama, to stand firm, hold your ground. Thus the Iqama-asSalat means "To follow the Quranic System in every situation and under every circumstances", this is also why verse 2238 does not talk about "the middle prayer" but about always hold up the Quranic Law system, even during such an emotional state of divorce, or while during travel
2238 (While describing some important marital laws), it is reiterated
that, your Central Duty remains the guarding of the System in which
individuals and families can develop their potentials to the maximum.
Stay alert in obedience to God.
2239 Whether fear threatens you from without, or you are strolling,
riding, relaxing in peace, remember God as He has taught you (the right
and wrong) what you did not know.Control of land and sea, as reptiles have it, command of the air as birds have it. All Westerners know what Salat means, occupying the earth from to bottom= See verse 2441 where it is pointed out that all creatures know their Salat and Tasbeeh, they know their instinct which they follow(salat) and they know their mission(Tasbeeh).
G.A.Parwez says
"In verse (24/41) a question is asked "Have you not pondered over the fact that whatever there is in the universe including the birds with wings spread out, is continuously carrying out their assignments with fullest play of their capabilities and each one of them knows its sphere of duties (Tasbeeh) and the way those are to be carried out (Sal'at)." This obviously means that everything in the universe knows by instinct, what are its duties and how to perform them and what is its destiny. As far as animal world is concerned, they do it by instinct. But if a human being wants to know, what is his Tasbeeh and Sal'at, it is a must for him to have faith in Wahi, through which all these directions containing do's and don'ts are explained. This is Iqamat-As-Sal'at, a special term used in the Quran.
To follow the Laws of the Quran is Iqamat-As-Sal'at. This is not possible individually and can only be done collectively; that is why the Quran has used the plural tense for this. It is the responsibility of an Islamic State is to establish this order (22/41), and they do it by mutual consultations (42/3. This system covers all the aspects of life, particularly the economic system. Verse (11/87) is very significant in this regard. It says "O Shu'aib! does your Sal'at not permit us even to spend our wealth as we desire?" They did not understand as to what type of Sal'at is one which gives directions even in economic matters; they thought Sal'at is just a prayer or some sort of ritual.In a nutshell it would pose one simple question. Would a person like to decide his affairs according to his desires, wishes or would he surrender before the Laws of Allah? This later position is called Sal'at. Verse (19/59) further clarifies "they were followed by people who abandoned or negated the Sal'at." Therefore, following the Divine Laws is called Sal'at. As such Ibn-e-Qutaiba says, Sal'at actually means Ad-Deen and Iqamat-As-Sal'at means Iqamat-ud-Deen."
http//www.ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=120
Baljon mentions in "Modern Muslim Koran Interpretation (1968 Brill)
"Further, it is attempted to prove a broad sense of Salat and its components on etymolgical grounds. "Al-Salat", it is is argued, "is a term for 'walking on a striaght road'...musalli is a word for a horse running in a race right behind the first group of horses; no musalli is a zigzagging horse. Accordingly, if it is stated about somebody who turns away from the body of Islam that "he does not believe, does not observe salat but denies the truth and takes by-roads"(7531). And Parwez holds forth in another excursus "Sabh (root of Tasbeeh) signifies 'to swim, to race with the fierceness of a horse', that is to say as , while swimming, the arms are spread widely, so it is called sabh if a horse gallops at full trot. Consequently, in this notion both the elements of fierceness and expanse are implied. So e.g. sabbaha fi l'ard means 'to travel in distant countries'; inna laka fi 'l-nahari sbhan tawilan (737)-"you have in the daytime an extensive and busy occupation". Hence, it says that everything in the creation is 'doing sabh', it signifies that everything is busy with carrying out appointed duties in a scrupulous way"....Ahmed Al-Din says by this also that Hajj is an annual international conference that ought to be avail for prevention of wars."
Mashriqi says also "On the whole Sujud in the Koran does not stand for 'to rub the forehead on the ground' but 'to act upon the commands of God'. Thus 555-6; "And the herbs and trees made a Sadjah"(i.e. obeyed the Laws of God)
And so Hajj is also a form of Salat as it is pursuing the following of the Quran which commands all of Mankind to be one
2213 Mankind were one single community.
So what is 4101-104 about?
4101 When you go forth in the land, there is no blame on you if you
shorten , if you fear that the unbelievers may attack you. Surely, the rejecters are an open enemy to you.4102 When you (O Messenger!) are with them and establish the
congregations of Salaat for them, let some of them stand with you, and
let them take their arms. Then, after they have received instructions, let
them fall to the rear and let another party come that has not received
instructions. Let them take precautions and their arms. The disbelievers
want you to neglect your arms and other belongings so that they may
attack you once and for all. There is no harm for you to lay aside your
arms if rain impedes you or if you are ill. But take all possible precaution.
Certainly, God has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating
chastisement.4103 Be mindful of Gods commands whatever state you are in,
standing, sitting or lying down. And when you are once again secure,
establish the congregations of Salaat. Joining the congregations of
Salaat at the times is a duty to believers.4104 Do not show weakness in pursuing the enemy. If you suffer
hardship they too suffer hardship. But you have hope to receive Gods
reward that they cannot rightfully hope. God is the Knower, the Wise.The Salat mentioned here is nothing more then the gatherings of the community to discuss of to implent the Quranic System. The Quranic message is very open and flexible and does not discuss all details, as we must lay down these details ourselves as needed in a situation. 4102 shows a gathering discussing the war strategy and 4103 we are reminded that the Quranic System can only work when we all participate and share our thoughts and know our duties in the System.
So what is Wudhu for? Maybe just a reminder to be clean when gathering in public? We are also reminded to wear good clothing and to have a clear mind. Human psychology is trained to take the words of a clean, nicely dressed person more seriously then that of a person that is dirty, unwashed and wears simple clothing.
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Peace Arnold,
Wow, all of this is making a lot of sense. Again I have to thank you and those that wrote those articles. I really cant respond to anything that you wrote since it makes perfect sense ) I just have one more question that I forgot to add in the other one. What happened regarding Noah? The flood that is. I watched something on TV regarding Noah and the Epic of Gilgamesh where it was first recorded. They said that its possible for an event like that to take place in a local region, but not worldwide like the Bible.
I have several questions regarding this.
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How did Noah know that it was going to rain? I know you talk about Umm-Al Kitab and how they have access to whatever it is. Could he have just guessed it was going to be a massive flood through science or was he literally told this by God? I know that somewhere in the Quran it states that God works through Inspiration, or something like that. So I take it that all the things that are given to Prophets arent literally spoken to from God, but like dreams or intuition?
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Was there a flood because the people were wicked or just because due to science? The same question goes for Pharoah, Aad, Thamoud, etc.
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Regarding the special female camel, was it literally placed there by God? How would that work?
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Muhammad got his revalation through Jibreel. Now, how exactly did that work? How did Muhammad have access to the past? I know you said Umm al Kitab, but is there a scientific way to explain this? Like, did he go through some sort of seizure or something? Like in some parts of Quran, I believe when he describes Jonah, he says "the one with the N in his name", or something like that. Now whats the significance of that? If Muhammad has access to Umm al kitab, shouldnt he know the name?
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Your stuff is hosted on 19.org Do you personally believe in the 19 code? I guess if you do, that answers the question regarding "the one with the N in his name".
I know I said one question but it turned into 5, sorry about that.
Peace
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- Is there are a real literal qiblah in your opinion? Could the qiblah (focal point) just mean where your thoughts and intentions are directed (ie Allah) at? I know this may go against your concept of not worshipping God, but I believe that your reasoning for that was just that Islams MAIN reason was not for worship?
Qiblah can be best understood as focus, and we are told that our Qiblah should the Masjid Al-Haram. To me, this is not a building as for example the Kaab, nor a temple. But the name for the Insitution, the Council/Shura committee. Ma=the place of Sujood=obeying the commands Al-Haram=restrictions, laws, forbidden, the exhaustive, the Laws given in the Quran. I believe also that it stands for the whole Quranic State, and even for your mind, as this to must be a place where the laws are followed.
- Why does Quran talk about being "deaf, dumb, and blind" like the animals? Is it because they operate on instinct while we operate on intellect (or at least should)?
Yes. Animals can only follow the paths laid out for them in their instinct, we on the other hand have Ruh/Wind, and so our mind can go in any direction just as the wind and so we must use our intellect to Life and our goals. When we do not do this, we are just like animals as we only follow our biological program and not our metaphysical program. And then we are even worse then animals as they atleast do as ordered and do Tasbeeh, while we are degrading ourselves and do not make full use of our potentials.
7179 Our law has committed to Hell numerous people, rural and urban;
they are living a life of Hell. They have hearts that they use not to
understand. They have eyes with which they see not, and ears with
which they hear not. They are like cattle. Nay, they are even worse.
Such are the people who have chosen to live through life in total
darkness of ignorance.- I asked this in the other thread but I wasnt exactly sure on the answer. When animals enter the next life, are their own personal nafs there as well or is that just for the humans? Do they evolve to a higher state of being or do they just stay at that level? Also the trees, bacteria, etc.
I do not believe Nafs is a form of life on itself, I believe it is an imprint into the fabric of the Universe of every species, beings and so on. These we will be all be created again in the Next Universe, but will arise in a higher developed form in many cases.
- Do we get anything out of worshipping God? I know we shouldnt think that way, but Id just like to know if there are benefits to doing so?
I believe not, the momentarely created good feeling after prayer or forms of worship are in a fact as drugs. They give this short term feeling of fulfillment and that you have pleased God and made a connection with Him. People do give arguments as that it reminds you of your duty, makes you pious and so on. But do you really need prayer to follow the Quran?
From a sociological point of view the concept of worship was formed in prehistoric times when Mankind did not understood nature and saw it as loose forces that were fighting each other. So they approached these "forces" as they would approach humans, they tried to please them with gifts and attention. This is of course logical as human-relations is all they knew and thus could apply. Over time, people formed different views on these forces and their approach to these forces formed into rituals as did the sociological relations between humans, for example, with many tribal people when a boy reaches manhood, he must first go through several rituals before he is seen as a man.
They created this form of gestures and symbolism in their approach to their understanding of nature and this formed into Sjamanism. During this same time, the leadership of the tribe was taken by the strongest, eldest or the one chosen. When Mankind formed larger and larger settlements, their rites and symbolism evolved also and their view of the forces changed and made them stronger and more powerful just as they as a settlement grew stronger. With a larger group there is more needed to keep order and to make them listen to the leader, and so the leader, the chief, became a king. A person asigned by the forces. In this way they assured people would listen to the leader as they believed he was chosen not by themselves but by the forces, their gods.
In this way an interchange of power emerged between the priesthood and the kings as they both had to sustain each other to keep order in their land. People still approached the 'gods' as they would approach humans that are more powerful, with gifts, attention and symbolism of being a servant. Also to show they accepted the kings power, similiar rituals and ideas were formed around the kings, and they would be seen as superhumans.
Just as there were multiple cities and multiple kings, there were probably also multiple gods whom people served. So worship was first formed to a wrong understanding of nature, later on it took up a form of a means to keep order in a society and to keep them loyal to their leaders.
The Romans believed the gods must be pleased with them as they were so succesful, so their belief in the gods was a reaction on nature and their status as a nation. So in these several ways the practice of worship was kept alive.
This concept was also taken on by every nation that had received Revelations/Wahi. Every time they lost their understanding of their Wahi through loss of knowledge, they went back to their old understanding of worship and kingship and tried to mix it with what was left of the message. In this way, the original Revelations were distorted on purpose or just because of misunderstanding its message through loss of knowledge. See 1663-64, 1959, 5716.
Roman Christianity in a sense was just pagan worship, mixed with a Jewish legend, formed on some copies that claimed to be divine, and on a mix of pagan beliefs of Mithra and Isis worship. Hinduism, Zoroasterism and Jewism are the best examples of nations loosing the original message. The Veda's and the Bible are scriptures that have been mixed up so much with historical reports, philosophies, commentaries on the original scriptures made by ancient scholars, and just plain old distortion to uphold the power of the priests and the kings.
The Quran was thus given to break again this spell of the wrong understanding of Nature and more importantly, this class-set up of slaves-subjects-elite-priesthood-kings.
Allah begins with Bi-Ism-Allah to say what He really is Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem, the non-discriminating Source of All we need (rahman) and the Provider of further stages of Evolution for those who are most fit for this (raheem).
These 2 defintions already completely break the spell of worship and of elite-classes as Allah is non-discriminating to whom He provides the basic substances as air, food, water, gold and so on, so no amount of worship can help you get more of these substances, plus status in society is nonsense as all our provided, so no king or priest has more right. It is even funny that it are the slaves and subjects who find the gold, make the food and so on, and then the kings and priests get the most of this. The slaves and subjects give this food and wealth to the kings and priests out of fear for oppression and out of fear in displeasign the gods or God. But God says, I am Rahman, you ALL deserve my Rizq/providing.
Raheem tells us that we can only deserve succes as a people and further development in the Universe if we strive for this and the Quran tells us we do this by feeding the poor, helping and protecting the needy, to create the Quranic Law and Economic System, to explore nature and so on. Nowhere does it refer to worship but to serve the System for all of Humanity
1317..While what is of benefit to mankind, abides on earth.
3110 (Since you have been empowered by the Quran), you are the
best suited Community that has been raised up for the good of mankind.
You shall enjoin the Right and discourage the Wrong, since you have
conviction in God. Now if the People of the scripture had attained this
kind of belief, it would have been for their own good. Some of them do
embrace belief, while most of them continue to drift away.6151 Say, "Come, let me convey to you what your Sustainer has
enjoined upon you as a sacred duty i. Associate none with Him. Ii.
Honor your parents, do good to them, fulfill their needs. iii. Neither kill
your children for fear of poverty nor deprive them of proper training and
education. We provide for you and for them. (The Divine System will
take care of your needs and their needs.) iv. Do not go near immodesty
or lewdness whether openly or in secret. v. Do not slay a life - life that
God has made sacred - except in the course of justice. This He has
commanded you so that you may use your intelligence.6152 God commands you further vi. Do not approach the wealth of the
orphan except to improve it until they come of age with full maturity of
body and mind. vii. Give full weight and full measure in all your dealings.
Uphold justice in all aspects of your life. Our commands are meant to
widen your human potential. We do not assign any self responsibility
beyond its means. viii. And when you voice an opinion, be just, even if it
is against a relative. ix. Fulfill your Covenant with God, the unwavering
allegiance to the Divine System (14-5, 9111). This He commands for
you to bear in mind.3190 Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and in the
alternation of night and day, there are signs for men and women who will
to understand.3191 (Such men and women of understanding keep reflecting upon
how Gods laws operate in the Universe.) Standing, sitting, and reclining,
they reflect upon the wonders of creation in the skies and earth, saying,
"Our Lord! You have not created all this without purpose. glory to You!
Save us, then, from (being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus
from) the doom of the fire.3192 (Reflecting on the Universe and upon their own role on the Planet,
such people work for the betterment of humanity 1317. They say), Our
Lord! Any individuals and nations whom You admit into the fire, You
have brought them low (for failing to harness the forces in Nature)."
There are no helpers for those who displace knowledge with conjecture
and thus wrong themselves.9011 But he hardly tries the uphill road, the Ascent.
9012 Ah, what will convey to you what that Ascent is!
9013 Freeing others from bondage, physical or mental, and from any
social, economic or political oppression.
9014 Feeding in times of hunger, famine, wars and natural disasters.
9015 Taking special care of those who, despite being a part of the
community, feel left out.
9016 Helping him who remains needy though he toils in the dust.
9017 Being of those who have chosen to be graced with belief, and
become living reminders of perseverance and living reminders of
compassion.
9018 Such are the companions of the right hand (immersed in bliss).Ive also been pondering about your talk on Jesus again. Im not sure if you mentioned it in your articles (I read it but it has so much information, thats a good thing ) , but couldn't also when God says "He could have chosen anyone" regarding the Son of God, isnt that a refute again against Jesus being a Virgin Birth? I was wondering to myself, "God knows that Christians believe he is of a Virgin birth, so why doesn't he out right say it isnt so?", when I was reading your message on how the quran mentions about "Fathers, sons, and brethen" deal when it talks of the prophets. Today it hit me regarding the refutation on Jesus being the Son of God, and I think its a clear stance against it.
The Quran is very clear when it comes to Jesus as God clearly says Jesus is as Adam, Mankind. AND the words used here for Adam are in the Present tense, and so clearly says Jesus is like all Man. Under Roman-Christian influence this was completely ignored by 90% of the Muslims of the later and present ages. So God does says it outright to the Christians, but few want to listen, they rather want to uphold supernatural beliefs as otherwise they do not accept the kings, priests and their created view of God's authority.
The Quran is the breaker of spells, but many are not ready...
Muhammed Asad says in his translation
3 59 Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of Jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is.* (3 60) the truth from thy Sustainer; be not, then, among the doubters!
*Lit., "The parable of Jesus is as the parable of Adam...", etc. The expression mathal (rendered above as "nature" is often metaphorically employed to denote the state or condition (of a person or a thing), and is in this sense - as the commentators have pointed out - synonymous with sifah (the "quality" or "nature" of a thing). As is evident from the sequence, the above passage is part of an argument against the Christian doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an stresses here, as in many other places, the fact that Jesus, like Adam - by which name, in this context, the whole human race is meant - was only a mortal "created out of dust", i.e., out of substances, both organic and inorganic, which are found in their elementary forms on and in the earth. Cf. also 1837, 225, 3020, 3511, 4067, where the Qur'an speaks of all human beings as "created out of dust". That "Adam" stands here for the human race is clearly implied in the use of the present tense in the last word of this sentence.
Off topic Bit of a personal question, but were you born into an arabic speaking family or did you just learn arabic (classical) on your own?
I am blond, blue eyed, born in a Dutch Roman-Catholic family. Studied Biochemistry and Physics, became Muslim when I was 20 because of the science in the Quran, completely rejected all other scriptures as having divine authority such as Hadith, Bible and so on when I was 21, I have studied Theology at Amsterdam College for 2 years and have studied under some of the most known Dutch philosophers, evolutionaire biologists, Bible scholars, theologists and Islam scholars. I now study Arabic at the University of Rotterdam, but taught myself the Arabic language more then a year ago as far as I could by myself.
There are many books that explain the Arabic definitions and meanings and I am very lucky to work closely with Dr.Shabbir, Akhtar Sherazi, Samia and to have beautiful conversations with Dr.Muhammed Shahroor.
I am just an amateur when it comes to the Quran, and I try to use my knowledge to understand the Quranic message the best way I can and share it with others. I can only recommend to read the commentaries of Muhammed Asad, Muhammed Ali, Ahmed Ali and that of QXP/Dr.Shabbir. And then read the books of Parwez, Muhammed Shahroor and science books, mix all these together and you will see where I get my ideas from.
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Wow, all of this is making a lot of sense. Again I have to thank you and those that wrote those articles. I really cant respond to anything that you wrote since it makes perfect sense
I had that too when Dr.Shabbir explained these things to me in the same way.
I just have one more question that I forgot to add in the other one. What happened regarding Noah? The flood that is. I watched something on TV regarding Noah and the Epic of Gilgamesh where it was first recorded. They said that its possible for an event like that to take place in a local region, but not worldwide like the Bible.
Is correct, it probably happened near the Black Sea around 4-5000 BCE and it was local, although a huge flood as the whole of the Black Sea used to be dry land and then water from the Mediteranian was pushed into the lower land there through a tsunami caused by an Earth quake, but they are still researching this. But they have found settlements and houses at the bottom of the Black Sea.
The Quran just uses the word Al-Ardh which just means habitable land, the place where people can live and walk. In the Quran it is used for just a small piece of lands, nations and the whole Earth. So the Quran does not say at all that it is the whole Earth that was drowned.
- How did Noah know that it was going to rain? I know you talk about Umm-Al Kitab and how they have access to whatever it is. Could he have just guessed it was going to be a massive flood through science or was he literally told this by God? I know that somewhere in the Quran it states that God works through Inspiration, or something like that. So I take it that all the things that are given to Prophets arent literally spoken to from God, but like dreams or intuition?
God spoke to them via means of communication where their minds had access to the Umm-alKitab of the Universe. God choose them as they were most fit to guide their people. If a people is constantly busy with protecting its people, it would look out for disasters like this. As God helps every nation with guidance how to reform itself so it is in harmony with each other and nature, Noah's nation was contacted via Noah.
As God knows the workings of the Universe, He knew the earthquake and thus the flood was coming. So He warned Noah so he could wanr his people, but they didn't listen as they did not care about the future, nor believed in helping each other, nor believed in the concept that God would help them through talking. They believed their current habit of worship was enough to protect them against these things.
It is like with Katrina, the big storm in America, where people were warned but they still stayed at home and thus were killed, but it also reflected that the government does not care about its people as the dams around New Orleans were not good enough. This is in a sense the story of Noah all over again.
Plus you must not forget that this warning happens in a long time range, several years mostly, so it is not so sudden. People have the dangerous tendency to see the things happening in the time it takes them to read the verses, while forgetting the Quran gives us snapshots that are spread out over years.
- Was there a flood because the people were wicked or just because due to science? The same question goes for Pharoah, Aad, Thamoud, etc.
They were wicked as they did not protect all people, and this caused their own doom. Mankind only now starts to understand that only through taking care of all people does a nation gain in strength. As peace creates prosperity and time to research the Earth so we can understand its workings.
- Regarding the special female camel, was it literally placed there by God? How would that work?
I believe the term she-camel is used as a symbol. Many commentators say different things, for example
QXP
773 The people of Thamud were successors to Aad. To them We sent
their brother, Saaleh. He said, O My people! Serve God. You have no
other god but He. The clear truth has come to you from your Lord. This
is the she-camel of God, a token for your obedience. So let her feed in
Gods earth and do not harm her lest painful torment seize you.Muhammed Asad
"The commentators cite various legends to the effect that this she-camel was of miraculous origin. Since neither the Qur'an nor any authentic Tradition provides the least support for these legends, we must assume that they are based on the expression ndgat Allah ("God's she-camel", which has led some pious Muslims to fantastic conjectures. However, as Rashfd Ri4a' points out (Mandr VIII, 502), this expression denotes merely the fact that the animal in question was not owned by any one person, and was therefore to be protected by the whole tribe; a further, analogous expression is found in the words "God's earth" in the same verse an illustration of the fact that everything belongs to God. The particular stress placed by $glib on good treatment of this ownerless animal - referred to in several places in the Qur'dn - was obviously due to the cruel high-handedness displayed by the tribe, who, as the next two verses show, were wont to "act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption" and "gloried in their arrogance towards all who were deemed weak" in other words, their treatment of the defenceless animal was to be a "token" of their change of heart or (as is made clear in 54 27) "a test for them".
- Muhammad got his revalation through Jibreel. Now, how exactly did that work? How did Muhammad have access to the past? I know you said Umm al Kitab, but is there a scientific way to explain this? Like, did he go through some sort of seizure or something? Like in some parts of Quran, I believe when he describes Jonah, he says "the one with the N in his name", or something like that. Now whats the significance of that? If Muhammad has access to Umm al kitab, shouldnt he know the name?
I do not know how that exactly works, but the Quran does comment that Muhammed does not need to worry that he is crazy, so it was an impressive experience it seems.
Yes, it works a bit like Radio waves, but then using your brain as the transmitter. We are starting to understand the brain as a transmitter more and more, as for example with twin-pain where twins could feel pain or experience of another.
God used "the one with the N in his name" for a reason that we are still exploring. Even if it is interlocked with 19, it doesn't end there. Same that most of the loose letters also had meanings in Arabic, like Yasin is "Oh Mankind".
- Your stuff is hosted on 19.org Do you personally believe in the 19 code? I guess if you do, that answers the question regarding "the one with the N in his name".
Yes, but I do not believe Rashad to be a "messenger" as he did not bring anything new, nor do I believe does the Quran support a form of messenger without revelation, plus the Quran is complete. There were already large groups of Quran-alone groups in India and Pakistan and also in Egypt in the 1900's and they were already way ahead of him when it came to the Quranic Message. Even the Ahmediya scholar Muhammed Ali has a better understanding of the Quran then Rashad and he died in 1951. Rashad stumbled on the 19code, and later on developed a form of Messiah-syndrome caused probably by stress and the pressure of his community and his concept of he as a small man taking up the 1Billion Hadith-muslims.
So I seperate the discoverer from the discovery. I do not believe the 19 code explains the Quran, it is just a verification method for the future generations. You cannot just say, I believe in the Quran, every letter and word must be accounted for in a sort of verification way, and mathematics is exactly the best tool for this. So from a scientific point of view it is logical God used this as his tool.
Sadly people have mixed up rashad to much with his discovery and his claim on messengership did not help and there are still to much factors involved to really see how it works. this is also why I believe it is for future generations and not us.
I always use this example concerning 19. To make use of a cow, does a common man need to know the DNA of the cow? Does he need to know the DNA to eat it, milk it or use its skin? No. DNA only interests a scientist, so lets keep it that way.
People have again used 19 for their personal salvation or gain, and this is why people are so confused about it.
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I can also email you the PDF versions of my articles if needed, just PM me.
Peace Arnold
Thank you for the kind offer but i am ok with just using MS word to print.
Thank you again for all the articles and help you provide to me and others. I greatly appericiate your efforts.
Same goes for Layth, Edip and Shabbir Ahmed.As you are a friend of Dr Shabbir please give him my thanks for his efforts specially the Quran translation.
May God bless you all
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Wow. This was great advice and interpretations of the Salaat and other topics. I totally agree with the concept of saalaat and what it is. By answearing the questions of amuslim, you clarified a lot of things to me too. Thanks Arnold, this was king knowledge.
Your friend David
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I want to echo David's sentiment; great posts Arnold.
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Peace Arnold,
I am truly speechless. Again, I must thank you tremendously for helping me understand the Quran outside of the traditional settings. It is really a gift and I cant think of anything else to say. You've answered all my questions (and more) with the best manner and I cant think of it being any better. May your knowledge and your mentors (and ours of course) increase.
Now, to look at those writings you wrote recommended
I appreciate the time and effort that you put into this, especially since you have a busy schedule. Hopefully we can all do that at some point (with the correct knowledge).
Peace
