Followers of Quran alone dividing themselves into 2 sects
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Code 19 is not for everyone. Some people NEED proof that it's from Allah and they're mathematically minded and this might be their proof and it works to make them believe. As for people like me who ponder dont need it.
I am one of those that needed the 19 miricle to even take the Quran seriously.. I was only looking for where it agreed with the Gospel and the Torah, when I found Kalifa..
None of us sees the Quran in the same way and we do not tie it down or limit its meanings with something called hadith.
This is where I have so much trouble with the Sunni's, they can't get how I can look at the Quran the way I do, and go to great lengths
to get rid of me off thier site because I raise points of view that they can not defend against, and because it doesn't agree with
their famous verse, and I don't believe in thier sunna or hadith. We threaten thier power structure, as much as the gospel of thomas, and
the Tom Hanks movie Di Vinci Code threatens the Vatican...Does anyone know what I'm talking about here? most people cant handle it, that's why they stick to sects and it's easier that way, just follow the 19ers, just follow the submitters etc.Peace
I think it is because they are very afraid of those who think for themselves, and have REAL convictions and not ones that
require the constant support of each others approval...No we will never fight each other because we have one thing that makes us different then those that kill and imprison us for our viewpoints...
We are not AFRAID of new ideas or opinions of others....... We have been blessed with what God has promised us "They shall not Fear", not all Muslims have achived this gift from God...
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Salam bro's and sisters
In the last few weeks when i have read the reformist Quran by edip yuksel and i've reflected upon it, suddenly bad thoughts came to my mind. Are the followers of Quran alones slowly dividing themselves into different sects by being code 19'ers and non-19'ers? As god tells us in the Quran we must hold the rope of allah and not divide ourselves, but some people seem to be content in what they have, and they see their way of being the only right way. So my main question is; will we actually hold the rope of allah in the future? I off course hope we can still be a team/group no mather what our disagrements are.
But i'm afraid that in the future there will be 2 main groups of Quran alone followers. One group of Code 19'ers and one grioup of Non-code 19'ers. We must keep together nomatter what an not become arrogant like the sunnis and shias that devided themselves. Remember dividing happened in every religion, christianity, hinduism, islam etc. What can we do to prevent this from happening?
I may off course be wrong. And it may just be a false thought that has nothing to with reality. But have any of thinked of the same?
If reading that translation inspired you those "bad thoughts" it is not for you; get rid of that translation. As long as people respect each other's right to be free in their religious, political and philosophical views, I see no problem. Expecting that every person or member of a particular group MUST think the same and act the same leads to hierarchy, bandwagon, group-think and many other problems. In this context, MUST is bad, but SHOULD is good!
Muhammad became the leader of a very diverse community in Yathrib Christians, Jews, Pagans and Muslims united on universal principles under his leadership.
Our fear of dividing an imaginary or artificial group should not stop us to think in a particular way as individuals. As long as my intention is searching the truth, while respecting everyone's right to choose truth or falsehood on their own, I should not worry about others dividing themselves. We are all will be judged for our own decisions and actions.
Peace,
Edip -
Salaams all,
There also seems to be another divide happening in the sense of "freeminders" and "Quran aloners".
Quran Aloner vs. Free-mind Aloner
A Free-Mind Aloner
- Believes there is no worship of Allah..He doesn?t need it.
- Therefore there is no such thing as ritual prayer, just meditation like Yoga
- You can drink alcohol if you like, just be moderate cause you are warned about it.
- Women can dress any way the society deems appropriate, just at least wear a bra.
- There are no such things as Angels, they are just forces of nature or aspects of human beings.
- There are no such things as Jinn, they are just mankind?s alter ego.
- Paradise and Hellfire are states of being in this life, not a new creation in the afterlife
8 There is no gathering day such as Friday, for believers to gather and hear the message since days of the week don?t exist in Al Quran. - Men and women are equal in everything including their roles in life given by Allah.
- To determine the best meaning of a word, phrase or subject matter of Al Quran, the meaning of the root of the word is the single most important factor and takes all precedent over context and understanding.
A Quran Aloner
- Believes that we must worship Allah, even though He doesn?t need it, because it benefits us and we were ordered to do it as a sign of our faith.
- There is worship of Allah in the form of a ?ritual prayer? called As Salaat.
- Alcohol is forbidden to drink because it intoxicates the mind, as are any other intoxicants that would make a person not normal during regular life.
- Women and men, but particularly women are given a dress code in Al Quran from Allah that specifies how they are different then men in their necessity.
- Angels are beings created from light that are part of the unseen that a believer is required to believe in to qualify as a believer.
- Jinn are beings created from a smokeless fire that are part of the unseen that a believer is required to believe in to qualify as a believer.
- Paradise and Hellfire are real creations of Allah that we experience in the after life, although similarities of both can be found in this life.
8 There are gathering days for believers to gather and learn together from the book. - Men and Women are equal in their service to Allah in the aspects of their soul, but Allah has given them different defined roles in society to create a balance and harmonious life style for the human being on earth.
- The best meaning of words should be used in the context of a given verse to determine what its true meaning is.
This is just a brief sample, but there seems to be a growing divide to the point that freeminders may end up just calling themselves a part of the universal force that we call "God", and hence the ultimate result is that we are all "gods", not a new concept...but one called shirk in Al Quran.
Let's all pray that Allah guides us all to be better understanding and peace.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Angels are beings created from light
Proof, put up or shut up.
In any case, that distinction between "free-minders" and "quran aloners" hardly exists. What I'm seeing is a distinction between "sane individual" and "insane sectarian", the latter group who may call themselves "free-minder, quran aloner, sunni, shia, 19er", etc and tend to denounce other people & groups that do not conform to their thinking, way of understanding and expect everyone to hold exactly equal interpretations of the quran to themselves.
The only label sanctioned in the quran is "muslim" or submitter in god and that's the only label I'll carry, thank you very much. Even then, as a label, it's pretty burdensome. No need to restrict myself to "Quran alone" because that is just as absurd.
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Peace David_K,
But i'm afraid that in the future there will be 2 main groups of Quran alone followers. One group of Code 19'ers and one grioup of Non-code 19'ers. We must keep together nomatter what an not become arrogant like the sunnis and shias that devided themselves. Remember dividing happened in every religion, christianity, hinduism, islam etc. What can we do to prevent this from happening?
We are really united with all who seek the truth from their lord.
Like Hadiths, Code-19 has everything anyone desires. People have found in it justification for all their preconceptions from the 24434 ritual prayer formula to the name of the prophet's uncle and other sectarian beliefs. It is not surprising that Code-19 followers believe in 99% of what sectarians believe in, ranging from mindlessly spinning around a stone cube and stoning some pillars to believe in Hadiths that claim that 9128-129 don't belong in the great reading. In fact, Hadiths is the only real reason why they took out 9128-129.
Some present Code-19 followers seek the truth from their lord and to those, I say may the god guide them to the truth and away from this test/affliction. Others are too busy seeking "miracles" and they will get what they desire.
Peace,
Ayman
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IQO i look forward to your word for word translation of the quran in which you clearly illustrate the proof for all your claims )
what's the scheduled release date?
My claim for you and the other dude that claims to put up or shut up is that their is a difference in the two groups. Nothing else is claimed as an absolute truth...can't you two freaking read and comprehend? )
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My claim for you and the other dude that claims to put up or shut up is that their is a difference in the two groups. Nothing else is claimed as an absolute truth...can't you two ****ing read and comprehend?
Dear IQO
Please do not be disgustedSee what Al-Quran says;2272
(2272) And when Our clear Revelations are recited to them, you perceive signs of disdain in the faces of the disbelievers as though they were going to assault those who recite Our Revelations to them. Say to them, "May I inform you of a thing worse than this? *122 It is the Fire which Allah has promised for those who reject the Truth; and what an evil abode it is -
Imam~
your points are interesting, and to an extent, i agree. this is one reason why i'm attempting to spend less time on-line, more time reading the Quran, practicing Islam, and meeting other Muslims. and Jews, and Christians.
sometimes faith can become too cerebral...
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My claim for you and the other dude that claims to put up or shut up is that their is a difference in the two groups. Nothing else is claimed as an absolute truth...can't you two ****ing read and comprehend?
if anyone is a sect maker or partitioner it is the person who makes up a list of traits instructing readers how to differentiate between two apparently identifiable groups
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To determine the best meaning of a word, phrase or subject matter of Al Quran, the meaning of the root of the word is the single most important factor and takes all precedent over context and understanding.
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The best meaning of words should be used in the context of a given verse to determine what its true meaning is.
you obviously greatly misunderstand.
the meaning of the root cannot take precedence over understanding because a fundamental reason for exploring the meaning of the root in the first place is that one is seeking understanding. therefore no preconceived understanding exists which the root meaning would - as you claim in your pretty list - override
as for your example shown in blue, how do you determine and then choose the best meaning for a word without knowing what word makes it up, and thus what the root of the word is?
who's ignoring context? that's why i asked when your translation is coming out. since you have it all figured out, i'm eager to see how you went step by step through each contextual example to arrive at all of the conclusions that you have.
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Salam Edip
Edip Yuksel
If reading that translation inspired you those "bad thoughts" it is not for you; get rid of that translation. As long as people respect each other's right to be free in their religious, political and philosophical views, I see no problem. Expecting that every person or member of a particular group MUST think the same and act the same leads to hierarchy, bandwagon, group-think and many other problems. In this context, MUST is bad, but SHOULD is good!David
These were my personal opionions. I agree that MUST is bad, and SHOULD is good. And i like the reformist translation too. I have never said that i disagree with the translation. In fact i think you have done a exellent job. But i'm not agreeing the code 19 based on LOGIC and reason, and the arguments and proofs are weak, and code 19 is not a fact in my opinion. But i have not made up my mind yet, and are off course open for new interpretations of the Quran. And if there comes solid enough proofs in the future i may believe code 19. It may be that you are seeing something which i can't see yet. Everyone accept something based on the knowledge they have. A doctor understands and can see something which a engineer maybe can't. And the engineer has a knowledge and sees stuff which a doctor can't see or don't understand. For example a doctor knows what do if someone is bitten by a snake, but the engineer may not know it. But on the other hand, the engineer knows how to make the walls of a building solid, but the Doctor may not even know one thing about how the construction of buildings work. I guess you are right. Accepting every person to think the same would be wrong because we have our opionions based on the knowledge we have and our opinions. If everyone was thinking the same, it would also be sheep mentality.Edip Yuksel
Muhammad became the leader of a very diverse community in Yathrib Christians, Jews, Pagans and Muslims united on universal principles under his leadership. Our fear of dividing an imaginary or artificial group should not stop us to think in a particular way as individuals. As long as my intention is searching the truth, while respecting everyone's right to choose truth or falsehood on their own, I should not worry about others dividing themselves. We are all will be judged for our own decisions and actions.David
I agree 100%. We are only responsible for our own actions, and the truth should be what we aim for. I guess i shouldn't concentrate on what other people believe, i should concentrate on being the best that i can be, and being as righteous as possible.By the way, i like your articles Edip, and think you write in an elegant and entertaining way )
Some of your articles really opened my mind. Especially the 19 questions for muslim scholars.Peace David
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if anyone is a sect maker or partitioner it is the person who makes up a list of traits instructing readers how to differentiate between two apparently identifiable groups
Lists don't make sects, those who follow what are in lists make themselves sects. I don't recall naming anyone that fit one group or the other. Did you see your name on the list? Which group do you consider yourself in since you take this so personally and feel like I am making you follow a sect?
you obviously greatly misunderstand.
I don't have a misunderstanding of what I posted, or I would not have posted it. I know what I wanted to say, and I said it. If you don't understand that two views can exist on a issue, then it is you that greatly misunderstands. By the way, which idea is yours since you feel so offended?
the meaning of the root cannot take precedence over understanding because a fundamental reason for exploring the meaning of the root in the first place is that one is seeking understanding. therefore no preconceived understanding exists which the root meaning would - as you claim in your pretty list - override
So which understanding did you assume I take? How do you know that I don't incorporate both understandings? You are very presumptious in your accusations. Who said my list was pretty? Why do you take the lists as Quranic evidence of anything? Don't you have the ability to comprehend that the lists were contrasts of two mindsets and not Quranic evidence of anything?
as for your example shown in blue, how do you determine and then choose the best meaning for a word without knowing what word makes it up, and thus what the root of the word is?
How do you determine it? Who told you I use the one in blue only? You seem arrogantly to have the ability to read my mind.
who's ignoring context? that's why i asked when your translation is coming out. since you have it all figured out, i'm eager to see how you went step by step through each contextual example to arrive at all of the conclusions that you have.
You seem to be ignoring context and comprehension. Sounds like you are feeling attacked for being in a sect. If so, I can't explain to you why you feel guilty or charged. Ask yourself these questions. They can be self revealing.
Again, since you can't seem to understand, they are opinions of group thinking, not Quraninc evidence of anything. Did you see me attach any ayaat to anything to support a point of view? If you read my posts, you will know that when I do that, I post ayaat to support my opinions of understanding.
Btw, I don't have a translation coming out, but you seem to have some serious problems with me...so why don't you join the bandwagon of haters that ignore me...it would be my honor if you joined! yes
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Salaams Al-Quran only,
Very good quote, alhamdulilaah. Thanks. )
Salaams, angel
Dear IQO
Please do not be disgustedSee what Al-Quran says;2272
(2272) And when Our clear Revelations are recited to them, you perceive signs of disdain in the faces of the disbelievers as though they were going to assault those who recite Our Revelations to them. Say to them, "May I inform you of a thing worse than this? *122 It is the Fire which Allah has promised for those who reject the Truth; and what an evil abode it is -
Peace,
A Free-Mind Aloner
- Believes there is no worship of Allah..He doesn?t need it.
- Therefore there is no such thing as ritual prayer, just meditation like Yoga
- You can drink alcohol if you like, just be moderate cause you are warned about it.
- Women can dress any way the society deems appropriate, just at least wear a bra.
- There are no such things as Angels, they are just forces of nature or aspects of human beings.
- There are no such things as Jinn, they are just mankind?s alter ego.
- Paradise and Hellfire are states of being in this life, not a new creation in the afterlife
8 There is no gathering day such as Friday, for believers to gather and hear the message since days of the week don?t exist in Al Quran. - Men and women are equal in everything including their roles in life given by Allah.
- To determine the best meaning of a word, phrase or subject matter of Al Quran, the meaning of the root of the word is the single most important factor and takes all precedent over context and understanding.
What the hell is a 'free mind aloner'?
Provide proof for your claims. NOTE Every single member of FM ever must employ the above, since you know they are 'free minders', including you. You frequent this site = you are a free-minder .
And all of those who call themselves muslim are part of Al qaeda
I'll make it easier, if you speak the truth that is, find me 20 people who believe ALL of the above. Shouldn't be hard.
4911
Khalifa
O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or make fun of your names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.4912
Khalifa
O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful. -
Seems like I have hit a nerve for you too! rotfl Provide proof for any of your claims below since you can't read or understand either! nope Is this the best you can do? ignore whatever
Peace,
What the hell is a 'free mind aloner'?
Provide proof for your claims. NOTE Every single member of FM ever must employ the above, since you know they are 'free minders', including you. You frequent this site = you are a free-minder .
And all of those who call themselves muslim are part of Al qaeda )
I'll make it easier, if you speak the truth that is, find me 20 people who believe ALL of the above. Shouldn't be hard.
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Youre welcome bro...it was my pleasure to provide you the proofs to help you read what I wrote correctly! ;D
Too bad you couldn't provide the proof for your ascertions. nope
Don't worry bro, you didn't hit a 'nerve'. I am just tired of ridiculous and unfounded generalizations. Thanks for the proof btw.