Followers of Quran alone dividing themselves into 2 sects
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if anyone is a sect maker or partitioner it is the person who makes up a list of traits instructing readers how to differentiate between two apparently identifiable groups
Lists don't make sects, those who follow what are in lists make themselves sects. I don't recall naming anyone that fit one group or the other. Did you see your name on the list? Which group do you consider yourself in since you take this so personally and feel like I am making you follow a sect?
you obviously greatly misunderstand.
I don't have a misunderstanding of what I posted, or I would not have posted it. I know what I wanted to say, and I said it. If you don't understand that two views can exist on a issue, then it is you that greatly misunderstands. By the way, which idea is yours since you feel so offended?
the meaning of the root cannot take precedence over understanding because a fundamental reason for exploring the meaning of the root in the first place is that one is seeking understanding. therefore no preconceived understanding exists which the root meaning would - as you claim in your pretty list - override
So which understanding did you assume I take? How do you know that I don't incorporate both understandings? You are very presumptious in your accusations. Who said my list was pretty? Why do you take the lists as Quranic evidence of anything? Don't you have the ability to comprehend that the lists were contrasts of two mindsets and not Quranic evidence of anything?
as for your example shown in blue, how do you determine and then choose the best meaning for a word without knowing what word makes it up, and thus what the root of the word is?
How do you determine it? Who told you I use the one in blue only? You seem arrogantly to have the ability to read my mind.
who's ignoring context? that's why i asked when your translation is coming out. since you have it all figured out, i'm eager to see how you went step by step through each contextual example to arrive at all of the conclusions that you have.
You seem to be ignoring context and comprehension. Sounds like you are feeling attacked for being in a sect. If so, I can't explain to you why you feel guilty or charged. Ask yourself these questions. They can be self revealing.
Again, since you can't seem to understand, they are opinions of group thinking, not Quraninc evidence of anything. Did you see me attach any ayaat to anything to support a point of view? If you read my posts, you will know that when I do that, I post ayaat to support my opinions of understanding.
Btw, I don't have a translation coming out, but you seem to have some serious problems with me...so why don't you join the bandwagon of haters that ignore me...it would be my honor if you joined! yes
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Salaams Al-Quran only,
Very good quote, alhamdulilaah. Thanks. )
Salaams, angel
Dear IQO
Please do not be disgustedSee what Al-Quran says;2272
(2272) And when Our clear Revelations are recited to them, you perceive signs of disdain in the faces of the disbelievers as though they were going to assault those who recite Our Revelations to them. Say to them, "May I inform you of a thing worse than this? *122 It is the Fire which Allah has promised for those who reject the Truth; and what an evil abode it is -
Peace,
A Free-Mind Aloner
- Believes there is no worship of Allah..He doesn?t need it.
- Therefore there is no such thing as ritual prayer, just meditation like Yoga
- You can drink alcohol if you like, just be moderate cause you are warned about it.
- Women can dress any way the society deems appropriate, just at least wear a bra.
- There are no such things as Angels, they are just forces of nature or aspects of human beings.
- There are no such things as Jinn, they are just mankind?s alter ego.
- Paradise and Hellfire are states of being in this life, not a new creation in the afterlife
8 There is no gathering day such as Friday, for believers to gather and hear the message since days of the week don?t exist in Al Quran. - Men and women are equal in everything including their roles in life given by Allah.
- To determine the best meaning of a word, phrase or subject matter of Al Quran, the meaning of the root of the word is the single most important factor and takes all precedent over context and understanding.
What the hell is a 'free mind aloner'?
Provide proof for your claims. NOTE Every single member of FM ever must employ the above, since you know they are 'free minders', including you. You frequent this site = you are a free-minder .
And all of those who call themselves muslim are part of Al qaeda
I'll make it easier, if you speak the truth that is, find me 20 people who believe ALL of the above. Shouldn't be hard.
4911
Khalifa
O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or make fun of your names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.4912
Khalifa
O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful. -
Seems like I have hit a nerve for you too! rotfl Provide proof for any of your claims below since you can't read or understand either! nope Is this the best you can do? ignore whatever
Peace,
What the hell is a 'free mind aloner'?
Provide proof for your claims. NOTE Every single member of FM ever must employ the above, since you know they are 'free minders', including you. You frequent this site = you are a free-minder .
And all of those who call themselves muslim are part of Al qaeda )
I'll make it easier, if you speak the truth that is, find me 20 people who believe ALL of the above. Shouldn't be hard.
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Youre welcome bro...it was my pleasure to provide you the proofs to help you read what I wrote correctly! ;D
Too bad you couldn't provide the proof for your ascertions. nope
Don't worry bro, you didn't hit a 'nerve'. I am just tired of ridiculous and unfounded generalizations. Thanks for the proof btw.
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Peace.
I do not know if all who frequent free-minds.org are in the first category, but I can definitely see your point...I can see the different types of views.
There are those who are all literal and then those who are allegorical.
I am beginning to see what you are saying even clearer than before.
I will no longer be coming here...
Peace to all the believers.
last time as YTV
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Peace.
I do not know if all who frequent free-minds.org are in the first category, but I can definitely see your point...I can see the different types of views.
There are those who are all literal and then those who are allegorical.
I am beginning to see what you are saying even clearer than before.
I will no longer be coming here...
Peace to all the believers.
last time as YTV
Since the writer has written for the last time, I suppose he won't answer, but the thing this that I find his message to cryptic for my understanding. 5 havent got much out of it.
Salaam
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Peace.
I do not know if all who frequent free-minds.org are in the first category, but I can definitely see your point...I can see the different types of views.
There are those who are all literal and then those who are allegorical.
I am beginning to see what you are saying even clearer than before.
I will no longer be coming here...
Peace to all the believers.
last time as YTV
You are right there is no consensus at any topic /meaning among them at all. not even in rejection of rejection of Hadeeths. G.A Pervaiz's book "Mehraaj-i-Insaaniyyat "contains a lot of Hadeeths.
So we see a state of confusion and intellectual anarchy. -
You are right there is no consensus at any topic /meaning among them at all. not even in rejection of rejection of Hadeeths. G.A Pervaiz's book "Mehraaj-i-Insaaniyyat "contains a lot of Hadeeths.
So we see a state of confusion and intellectual anarchy.Not surprising since some people on here can't even decide what name they want to log onto today ;D
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Peace.
I do not know if all who frequent free-minds.org are in the first category, but I can definitely see your point...I can see the different types of views.
There are those who are all literal and then those who are allegorical.
I am beginning to see what you are saying even clearer than before.
I will no longer be coming here...
Peace to all the believers.
last time as YTV
You are right there is no consensus at any topic /meaning among them at all. not even in rejection of rejection of Hadeeths. G.A Pervaiz's book "Mehraaj-i-Insaaniyyat "contains a lot of Hadeeths.
So we see a state of confusion and intellectual anarchy.Well the site is named FREE MINDS... We VALUE our individual RIGHTS to thinking what we want to think
and more importantly giving others the right to think what they want to think...We welcome diversity of opinion and viewpoints, it is there where the NEW growth occurs....
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Peace IQO, everyone,
- Believes there is no worship of Allah..He doesn?t need it.
- Believes that we must worship Allah, even though He doesn?t need it, because it benefits us and we were ordered to do it as a sign of our faith.
I guess, it depends on what people mean by ?worship?. Christians think that kneeling before the cross is ?worship?. Sectarians think that spinning seven times around a cube is ?worship?. If one thinks that worship is to respect, hear, obey and serve the god then this is fine. If one thinks that worship means doing some mindless rituals such as spinning around a cube, then rational people know that there is no benefit for such mindless rituals.
- Therefore there is no such thing as ritual prayer, just meditation like Yoga
- There is worship of Allah in the form of a ?ritual prayer? called As Salaat.
It is a fact that ?as salaat? doesn?t mean ?ritual prayer? or ?meditation?. This is indisputable and such meanings produce nonsense in several of the passages where the term occurs. For example, using ?ritual prayer? or ?meditation? in 3343 creates problems as we can see here (using Yusufali?s translation)
033.043
YUSUFALI He it is Who performs the ?ritual prayer? on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers.YUSUFALI He it is Who performs the ?meditation? on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers.
- You can drink alcohol if you like, just be moderate cause you are warned about it.
- Alcohol is forbidden to drink because it intoxicates the mind, as are any other intoxicants that would make a person not normal during regular life.
If something is forbidden then this makes it 100% off limits. Therefore, if IQO sincerely believes in the above and he ever has an operation, he shouldn?t take anesthesia because it intoxicates the mind and according to him is forbidden. Also, alcohol is a chemical compound that is a byproduct of the natural fermentation process and thus is ubiquitous in nature. Therefore, if IQO really believes in the above, he shouldn?t eat any fruit or drink any fruit juice since they definitely contain a small amount of alcohol and according to him it is forbidden.
The fact is that the word ?haram?/forbidden/restricted is never mentioned with intoxicants. The word mentioned is ?avoid?. So we should avoid such things as much as possible.
- Women can dress any way the society deems appropriate, just at least wear a bra.
- Women and men, but particularly women are given a dress code in Al Quran from Allah that specifies how they are different then men in their necessity.
One should dress modestly and the best dress is that of ?taqwa?/forethought. There is nothing in the great reading that instructs women to wear a uniform in the form of a black ?tent? that covers them from head to toe.
- There are no such things as Angels, they are just forces of nature or aspects of human beings.
- Angels are beings created from light that are part of the unseen that a believer is required to believe in to qualify as a believer.
In English, the word ?angels? is used to describe mythical creatures dressed in white robes and who have halos on top of their heads. So it is a fact that angels don?t exist.
Also, although this is a common belief amongst Sunnis due to some Hadiths, the statement ?angels are beings created from light? is wild conjecture that has no basis in the great reading. Therefore, IQO, you should either retract such baseless statement or if you insist on such Hadith-based stuff, you should at least change your screen name accordingly.
- There are no such things as Jinn, they are just mankind?s alter ego.
- Jinn are beings created from a smokeless fire that are part of the unseen that a believer is required to believe in to qualify as a believer.
Again, there is no basis in the great reading for the statement ?a believer is required to believe in ?jinn? to qualify as a believer?. In fact, quite the opposite, we are told the following in 3441 (again using Yusufali's translation)
034.041
YUSUFALI They will say, "Glory to Thee! our (tie) is with Thee - as Protector - not with them. Nay, but they worshipped the Jinns most of them believed in them."It is an indisputable fact that according to 3441, it is the unjust who believe in the ?jinn?. So we shouldn?t believe in ?jinn?.
- Paradise and Hellfire are states of being in this life, not a new creation in the afterlife
- Paradise and Hellfire are real creations of Allah that we experience in the after life, although similarities of both can be found in this life.
We are told in the great reading that paradise and hell descriptions are allegorical. They are certainly the two possible outcomes of the afterlife. There is no indication in the great reading that anything is similar to them in this life.
There is no gathering day such as Friday, for believers to gather and hear the message since days of the week don?t exist in Al Quran.
There are gathering days for believers to gather and learn together from the book.What are those gathering days? The word ?Friday? (or Friga-day after the Norse goddess Friga) is never mentioned in the great reading.
- Men and women are equal in everything including their roles in life given by Allah.
- Men and Women are equal in their service to Allah in the aspects of their soul, but Allah has given them different defined roles in society to create a balance and harmonious life style for the human being on earth.
- ?...inna akramakum 3ind allah atqakum...?
...surely that of you who is most honored at the god is who is your most forethoughtful...
As for roles, men and women certainly have different roles as dictated by their natural biology. For example, men don?t get pregnant but women do. But this is obvious and people who do not harbor any chauvinistic inclinations shouldn?t make a big deal out of it.
- To determine the best meaning of a word, phrase or subject matter of Al Quran, the meaning of the root of the word is the single most important factor and takes all precedent over context and understanding.
- The best meaning of words should be used in the context of a given verse to determine what its true meaning is.
I agree that one should use the context to determine the best meaning. However, the key is to actually put this in practice instead of claiming it but then using preconceptions from inherited dogma as the context. For example, given the context in the great reading, ?malaika? cannot be construed as ?angels made of light?. This is a purely imaginary meaning based on preconceptions from inherited dogma.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaams ayman,
Was your point to prove that you fall into neither category? If so, that doesn't make a case against the point that many people still do.
What is your point with all of this? All of these subjects have been discussed in different threads over and over again. It seems that you and those like you can't seem to understand that my intent with this point WAS NOT TO TRY TO DEBATE EACH AND EVERY DIFFERENT POINT IN THIS THREAD...THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE.
The point was to point out how those with certain views seems to fall in line with other views. If you want to take a poll and prove otherwise, please feel free to do so.
Otherwise, it is just my opinion of what I see, and all of you are making a mockery of yourself trying to make proofs or points for issues that have been discussed numerous times already on this forum, as if you are opposing or proving me wrong. You don't know if I hold all the views of one catergory or the other; or some views from both categories. If I want to discuss one of the points individually, I will do it in a thread dedicated to that subject or start one of my own.
Peace, peace
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Salaams ayman,
Was your point to prove that you fall into neither category? If so, that doesn't make a case against the point that many people still do.
What is your point with all of this? All of these subjects have been discussed in different threads over and over again. It seems that you and those like you can't seem to understand that my intent with this point WAS NOT TO TRY TO DEBATE EACH AND EVERY DIFFERENT POINT IN THIS THREAD...THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE.
The point was to point out how those with certain views seems to fall in line with other views. If you want to take a poll and prove otherwise, please feel free to do so.
Otherwise, it is just my opinion of what I see, and all of you are making a mockery of yourself trying to make proofs or points for issues that have been discussed numerous times already on this forum, as if you are opposing or proving me wrong. You don't know if I hold all the views of one catergory or the other; or some views from both categories. If I want to discuss one of the points individually, I will do it in a thread dedicated to that subject or start one of my own.
Peace, peace
You assigned a set creed to two equally meaningless labels (meaningless, in that they give absolutely no information beyond what they state clearly) in order to give them meaning. So don't cry when people react to that.
In any case, "free-minder" has nothing to do with your silly list of generalisations and nor does "quran only" have to conform to an equally silly list of preconceptions.
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You assigned a set creed to two equally meaningless labels (meaningless, in that they give absolutely no information beyond what they state clearly) in order to give them meaning. So don't cry when people react to that.
In any case, "free-minder" has nothing to do with your silly list of generalisations and nor does "quran only" have to conform to an equally silly list of preconceptions.
If it is/was so meaningless, why are your panties all in a wad? yeah
Im not crying...Im point out how silly you all look trying to prove points to me when you don't understand the point that I made.
If it is so silly, why are you giving it so much attention? hmm Again, sounds like I struck a nerve no matter how much you deny it!
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Peace IQO, everyone,
We are told in the great reading that paradise and hell descriptions are allegorical. They are certainly the two possible outcomes of the afterlife. There is no indication in the great reading that anything is similar to them in this life.
Wow !! great information
Would you please provide the evidence/proof from the great book
You also saidThe fact is that the word ?haram?/forbidden/restricted is never mentioned with intoxicants. The word mentioned is ?avoid?. So we should avoid such things as much as possible.
From where did you deduce the word "avoid" means "avoid as much as possible".
When Allah commands "avoid" ,it means avoid .There is no as much as possible type thing. -
Peace IQO,
Was your point to prove that you fall into neither category? If so, that doesn't make a case against the point that many people still do.
My point was not about me at all. In fact, I don't think that anyone falls into such categories. So such categories are pointless.
What is your point with all of this? All of these subjects have been discussed in different threads over and over again. It seems that you and those like you can't seem to understand that my intent with this point WAS NOT TO TRY TO DEBATE EACH AND EVERY DIFFERENT POINT IN THIS THREAD...THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE.
It is not impossible. In fact, most of the points are easily addressed. For example, simply referring to the passage in the great reading which states that "maliaka" are "angels made of light" would suffice. How hard is it to write a chapter and verse number? Words such as "impossible" shouldn't be used lightly. However, I can safely say that it is IMPOSSIBLE that you will bring proof from the great reading that "angels are beings made of light".
The point was to point out how those with certain views seems to fall in line with other views. If you want to take a poll and prove otherwise, please feel free to do so.
This is not about polls or what views are popular. This is about the truth. I saw many problems and hasty generalizations in the views that you presented from your point of view.
Otherwise, it is just my opinion of what I see, and all of you are making a mockery of yourself trying to make proofs or points for issues that have been discussed numerous times already on this forum, as if you are opposing or proving me wrong. You don't know if I hold all the views of one catergory or the other; or some views from both categories. If I want to discuss one of the points individually, I will do it in a thread dedicated to that subject or start one of my own.
If what you are saying is true then please provide a link to thread where this has been provided or better yet the passage in the great reading where it is stated that "malaika" are "angels made of light". I am not trying to prove you wrong. Everyone who read the great reading, already knows you are wrong. I am only trying to prove that it is not easy to let go of old inherited beliefs that have no basis in the great reading even for someone who sincerely calls himself "ImamQuranonly". We all have been there before with respect to one baseless belief or another. The only way to go beyond this is to focus solely on the truth and not on dividing people into categories and sects. I hope that this helps you to see the real point.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaams ayman,
I seem to have struck a nerve for you to. Seems that you and your friends don't like to label yourselves, although you do it by default. You seem to miss one important point dude
There also seems to be another divide happening in the sense of "freeminders" and "Quran aloners".
This is just a brief sample, but there seems to be a growing divide to the point that freeminders may end up just calling themselves a part of the universal force that we call "God", and hence the ultimate result is that we are all "gods", not a new concept...but one called shirk in Al Quran.
Let's all pray that Allah guides us all to be better understanding and peace.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Figure it out and get back to me. Also, prove from the list what I presented as my own personal beliefs. Good luck!
Salaams, peace
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I am only trying to prove that it is not easy to let go of old inherited beliefs that have no basis in the great reading even for someone who sincerely calls himself "ImamQuranonly". Peace,
Ayman
Surprise surprise Dr. Ayman,
You're not the only one that has a problem with this name! confused Is it the "Only" part? Or is it the "Quran" part?
Or let me take a WILD guess and say it is the "IMAM" part? rotfl Sounds like a lot of you are suffering from residual sunnism effects.
Maybe you should study "Imam" in the context of "Quran" only! yes hmm