Virgin Birth of Isa
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Behold! the Disciples said "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus "Fear Allah if ye have faith." (5-112)
Arnold
Why the Disciples called Jesus by his mother and not by his Father (if he had one).
Even if his farther was not favored by God or Dead (as you claimed both conditions before), it is not common in Jews culture or any other culture to call a respected Man by his mother if his father exists or ever existed. -
Arnold
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." (5-17)
Now, why God said that he could destroy Jesus and his Mother, and did not mention a Father (even he was not favored by God as you said)?
Peace,
Because in Christian Theology only Jesus and Mary are seen as illah's.
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So you are saying that Jesus had a Father, and he was BAD (was not Favoured by God)?
What is your proof from the Quran?
Peace,
Not being favoured in the way as Jesus and Mary as maybe the father didn't need to be favoured as he maybe dead already before the favouring of Mary and Jesus had started. Or the father didn't need it, not because he was bad, but because he wasn't part of the mission.
Do not confuse not being favoured to being bad. The Jews were favoured, this doesn?t mean all the rest on earth were bad...
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(٢
Behold! the Disciples said "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus "Fear Allah if ye have faith." (5-112)
Arnold
Why the Disciples called Jesus by his mother and not by his Father (if he had one).
Even if his farther was not favored by God or Dead (as you claimed both conditions before), it is not common in Jews culture or any other culture to call a respected Man by his mother if his father exists or ever existed.Peace,
You hardly know Jewish culture, especially that of the first century. His mother was from a prominent family as the word Mary is a title of royalty, not a name. This already gives rise for why Jesus is commonly referred to his mother. Also the disciples could come from the region where his mother came from, and thus know him more through his mother then his father.
Like said before, with my mother?s family, they refer to me as the son of Mary (my mother's real name) and not as the son of Willliam (my father). With my father's family, they refer to me as the son of William.
In Holland, our royal Dutch family has a queen as it's ruler. Her sons are always called and referred to as the sons of Beatrix (queen). Almost never as the sons of Claus (queen's husband), although Claus is also royalty.
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In fact I can't recall that the Quran calls many people continually as "son of X" be it the father or the mother. I hardly think it is a question of calling him by the mothers or the fathers name, but rather of making of it such a big deal. No Moses son of X every time he is mentioned, Or Solomon, or any other. There must be a reason for it.
On the mother's name question, again, it is not true that no people in the world get their mothers family name. As I already said before, that I know of, at least all Spanish and Portuguese speaking people get their mothers and father's family name. That is quite a number, and I am not sure about Chinese, because at one time I read they get their mother's family name, but I am not sure about that, nor can I understand that it is seen with such a dislike. Those who do not like it should also give up being in their mothers womb for any length of time if they are ashamed of her name.
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Peace everybody
The following are what I used as proof for Jesus Virgin Birth
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(٦ (٧Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (45) "He shall speak to the people in childhood And in maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." (46) She said "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said "Even so Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it `Be', and it is! (3-47)
(١ (٢
O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is One Allah glory be to him (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (171) Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah) those who disdain His worship and are arrogant He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (4-172)
(٠
Then will Allah say "O Jesus, the son of Mary! recount my favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said `This is nothing but evident magic'. (5-110)
(٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥ (٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. (16) She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. (17) She said "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah." (1 He said "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." (19) She said "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (20) He said "So (it will be) thy Lord saith
That is easy for Me and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us' it is a matter (so) decreed." (21) So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. (22) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree she cried (in her anguish) "Ah! would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" (23) But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-free) "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; (24) "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. (25) "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man sayI have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.' " (26) At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). they said "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! (27) "O sister of Aaron! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (2 But she pointed to the babe. They said "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" (29) He said "I am indeed a servant of Allah He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; (30) "And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (31) "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; (32) "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! (33) Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. (34) It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it "Be", and it is. (19-35)(٠
And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs. (23-50)
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And Mary the daughter of `Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into her (body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (Servants). (66-12)These are the decisive verses that God sent to tell Christian the truth about Jesus. If a six years old human listen to it, he will understand God?s Message.
Arnold, are you ignoring all the above decisive verses (well-established), and the ones that I mentioned before.
Until now you failed to provide a well-established verse to support your theory that Jesus had a Father.Peace,
Virgin birth is rejected by the Quran on 2 fronts
Muhammed Asad says in his translation
3 59 Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of Jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is.* (3 60) the truth from thy Sustainer; be not, then, among the doubters!
*Lit., "The parable of Jesus is as the parable of Adam...", etc. The expression mathal (rendered above as "nature" is often metaphorically employed to denote the state or condition (of a person or a thing), and is in this sense - as the commentators have pointed out - synonymous with sifah (the "quality" or "nature" of a thing). As is evident from the sequence, the above passage is part of an argument against the Christian doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an stresses here, as in many other places, the fact that Jesus, like Adam - by which name, in this context, the whole human race is meant - was only a mortal "created out of dust", i.e., out of substances, both organic and inorganic, which are found in their elementary forms on and in the earth. Cf. also 1837, 225, 3020, 3511, 4067, where the Qur'an speaks of all human beings as "created out of dust". That "Adam" stands here for the human race is clearly implied in the use of the present tense in the last word of this sentence.
And
The Quran clearly mentions Jesus's father. In surah An-Aam verse 84-87 Allah mentions names of 18 prophets at a stretch. Of these, verse 86 specifically mentions name of Isa as "?. And Zakariyya, and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas - everyone was of the righteous." After stating the names of the 18 prophets, in the very next verse 88 Allah goes on to say that
688 And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren. And We chose them and We guided them towards the Right Path.
In the verse 688, the Arabic words "?. Wa min aaba ihim?" is critical. Let me break down the words Wa means And, Min means From Aaba means Fathers Ihim means Among theirs. Together it means ?. And from among their fathers?.
Muslim scholars are in jeopardy with this statement from Allah. They desperately try to justify their faith that Jesus did not have a father. So now they start twisting the meaning and interpretation. At this time I want to emphasize that if Jesus did not have a father then the verse 688 should not have included his name or should have specifically stated that illa Isa or except Isa. Or would you say it was an oversight (nauzubillah!) on part of Allah!!! If the argument is that some HAD fathers, then which other prophet did not have a father? Can you tell me who was born without a father other than Jesus?
There are several other prophets whose fathers are not specifically mentioned in the Qur-an , for example, Nuh, Dawud, Ayyub, Musa, Harun, Zakariya, whose name exists in the list of 18 prophets in the above verses. Even though we don?t find the mention of fathers of these prophets we believe these prophets did have fathers. But in case of Jesus we make the exception that he did not have a father. We make this exception because the Christian teachings tell us that Jesus did not have a father, although time and again Bible refers to his father as a person named Joseph.
Muslims are more interested to uphold the Biblical statement at the cost of the Quranic declaration.
I have researched and discussed also the other issues of 'miracles' and the supernatural in these articles
http//19.org/index.php?arnold
Arnold, you are committing the worse Sin that God will not Forgive no matter what Good deeds you would do to compensate for. It is the Sin of saying what God did not say in the Book ?Shirk?, and disbelieving the decisive verses ?Kofer?, and following non-well- established verse to cancelout well established verses.
If Free-Minds Management allows this, then they are committing the same Sins by ignoring there own rulls that they set for this Fourm.
Peace
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Peace.
There are hypocrites among you, but you can not know them by how they look, but you can know them by what they say.
The quran is clear, Mary was chaste....Jesus did not have a father, and his similarity to Adam is in that same fact...they both did not have fathers...they were created...by God not through the normal method of procreation.Anyone who claims otherwise is clearly misguided.....
Beware of the Jews who claim they are "Muslims" who come in here and create "fitnah" and spread lies.....
Doesn't the quran say something about the people of Muhammad's time who received the quran and yet turn away form the sign of Mary and Jesus? Who also turned away from the sign of Mary and her son? THE JEWS.......
GLORY BE TO OUR GOD THE MOST GREAT THE MOST HIGH
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Salam,
Arnold, are you ignoring all the above decisive verses (well-established), and the ones that I mentioned before.
Until now you failed to provide a well-established verse to support your theory that Jesus had a Father.
Arnold, you are committing the worse Sin that God will not Forgive no matter what Good deeds you would do to compensate for. It is the Sin of saying what God did not say in the Book Shirk, and disbelieving the decisive verses Kofer, and following non-well- established verse to cancelout well established verses.If Free-Minds Management allows this, then they are committing the same Sins by ignoring there own rulls that they set for this Fourm.
You are no authority to claim the truth for yourself nor condemn anyone for shirk just their interpretation differs from yours. That is truly shirk! We have already showed you many times that the verses on Mary and Jesus are not well-established verses on virginbirth, not at all even. You have circumvened many questions I have asked you.
If this is the only way out, by escape-goating in this form, then discussion is useless as you already had shown many times before.
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Peace,
Peace.
There are hypocrites among you, but you can not know them by how they look, but you can know them by what they say.
The quran is clear, Mary was chaste....Jesus did not have a father, and his similarity to Adam is in that same fact...they both did not have fathers...they were created...by God not through the normal method of procreation.Anyone who claims otherwise is clearly misguided.....
Beware of the Jews who claim they are "Muslims" who come in here and create "fitnah" and spread lies.....
Doesn't the quran say something about the people of Muhammad's time who received the quran and yet turn away form the sign of Mary and Jesus? Who also turned away from the sign of Mary and her son? THE JEWS.......
GLORY BE TO OUR GOD THE MOST GREAT THE MOST HIGH
You ever thought of that the Jews and Christians already have created fitnah by creating a general interpretation on "Adam" and virginbirth? Rarely do people use theitr reason and logic and rather follow the crowd. People call themselves "Quran-alone" but many times they still use the Sunni-theology and interpretation of the Quran. People can throw the Hadith away, but not the mindset that was created by it...
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Salam,
We have already showed you many times that the verses on Mary and Jesus are not well-established verses on virginbirth, not at all even. You have circumvened many questions I have asked you.
If God only revealed the following verses to clairfy "Jesus Birth", it would be more than enough and very well- established. It will be enough to explain all the other non-well-established ones, which you used to mislead every one who is reading this debate.
(٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥ (٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. (16) She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. (17) She said "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah." (1 He said "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." (19) She said "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (20) He said "So (it will be) thy Lord saith
That is easy for Me and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us' it is a matter (so) decreed." (21) So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. (22) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree she cried (in her anguish) "Ah! would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" (23) But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-free) "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; (24) "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. (25) "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man sayI have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.' " (26) At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). they said "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! (27) "O sister of Aaron! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (2 But she pointed to the babe. They said "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" (29) He said "I am indeed a servant of Allah He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; (30) "And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (31) "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; (32) "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! (33) Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. (34) It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it "Be", and it is. (19-35)One time you claim,
Begining Qoute
The Quran clearly mentions Jesus's father. In surah An-Aam verse 84-87 Allah mentions names of 18 prophets at a stretch. Of these, verse 86 specifically mentions name of Isa as "?. And Zakariyya, and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas - everyone was of the righteous." After stating the names of the 18 prophets, in the very next verse 88 Allah goes on to say that
688 And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren. And We chose them and We guided them towards the Right Path.
In the verse 688, the Arabic words "?. Wa min aaba ihim?" is critical. Let me break down the words Wa means And, Min means From Aaba means Fathers Ihim means Among theirs. Together it means ?. And from among their fathers?.
End Qoute
And one time you claim that Abaohm dese not mean Father
Begining Qoute
No, it can imply both mother and father. So both his father and mother were blessed. Still the verse doesn't change in its directness.
End Qoute
Who are you?
Why do you underestimate people intelligence?
Do you think we are brainless? -
Peace belalhammad,
I can not understand what you mean, Please explain more.
ThanksIn summary, the mention of isa as ibn maryam has zero sigificance in support of your argument that isa was born without a father.
Somewhere in this thread, you mentioned that God could have easily said, "Isa had a father". Did you ever think that he could have just as easily said, "Isa did not have a father"??More importantly, you stated
Arnold, you are committing the worse Sin that God will not Forgive no matter what Good deeds you would do to compensate for. It is the Sin of saying what God did not say in the Book ?Shirk?, and disbelieving the decisive verses ?Kofer?, and following non-well- established verse to cancelout well established verses.
If Free-Minds Management allows this, then they are committing the same Sins by ignoring there own rulls that they set for this Fourm.
You have no authority nor argument to base these accusations. Arnold's point of view is based on his interpretation of the text, just as your point of view is based on your interpretation. That's why we discuss. Check your self before throwing around words like shirk and kafir.
May peace be upon you,
Tay -
If God only revealed the following verses to clairfy "Jesus Birth", it would be more than enough and very well- established. It will be enough to explain all the other non-well-established ones, which you used to mislead every one who is reading this debate.
(٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥ (٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. (16) She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. (17) She said "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah." (1 He said "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." (19) She said "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (20) He said "So (it will be) thy Lord saith
That is easy for Me and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us' it is a matter (so) decreed." (21) So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. (22) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree she cried (in her anguish) "Ah! would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" (23) But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-free) "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; (24) "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. (25) "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man sayI have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.' " (26) At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). they said "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! (27) "O sister of Aaron! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (2 But she pointed to the babe. They said "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" (29) He said "I am indeed a servant of Allah He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; (30) "And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (31) "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; (32) "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! (33) Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. (34) It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it "Be", and it is. (19-35)One time you claim,
Begining Qoute
The Quran clearly mentions Jesus's father. In surah An-Aam verse 84-87 Allah mentions names of 18 prophets at a stretch. Of these, verse 86 specifically mentions name of Isa as "?. And Zakariyya, and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas - everyone was of the righteous." After stating the names of the 18 prophets, in the very next verse 88 Allah goes on to say that
688 And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren. And We chose them and We guided them towards the Right Path.
In the verse 688, the Arabic words "?. Wa min aaba ihim?" is critical. Let me break down the words Wa means And, Min means From Aaba means Fathers Ihim means Among theirs. Together it means ?. And from among their fathers?.
End Qoute
And one time you claim that Abaohm dese not mean Father
Begining Qoute
No, it can imply both mother and father. So both his father and mother were blessed. Still the verse doesn't change in its directness.
End Qoute
Who are you?
Why do you underestimate people intelligence?
Do you think we are brainless?You can twist words very nicely, plus the word Abaahim implies both to father and mother, and so none are left out. Circles circles we go round and round...
But I'm done talking with people who deem themselves equal to God to judge people as mushrik just because their interpretation differs from yours.
Peace
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Salam Tay
Sorry, I was away from my Computer. But any way, I will try to answer your & and post.In summary, the mention of isa as ibn maryam has zero sigificance in support of your argument that isa was born without a father.
;D
No it does.If God did not reveal the decisive verses that show the story of the Spirit that came to Mary and Blew in her to make here pregnant, then you are right; but because of such verses, I'm entitled to use them as very important supporting evidences.
Believe me if Arnold had the chance to use ones like these to support his theory, he would have done and you would have bless him for itSomewhere in this thread, you mentioned that God could have easily said, "Isa had a father". Did you ever think that he could have just as easily said, "Isa did not have a father"??
nope
yes
God did say "Isa Did Not Have a human Father" in verse 19-19, and said "he was created by a Breath from the spirit into Mary".You have no authority nor argument to base these accusations. Arnold's point of view is based on his interpretation of the text, just as your point of view is based on your interpretation. That's why we discuss. Check your self before throwing around words like shirk and kafir.
Arnold did not say in his post that this is his opinion, rather he said
Begining Qoute
The Quran clearly mentions Jesus's father. In surah An-Aam verse 84-87 Allah mentions names of 18 prophets at a stretch. Of these, verse 86 specifically mentions name of Isa as "?. And Zakariyya, and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas - everyone was of the righteous." After stating the names of the 18 prophets, in the very next verse 88 Allah goes on to say that
688 And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren. And We chose them and We guided them towards the Right Path.
In the verse 688, the Arabic words "?. Wa min aaba ihim?" is critical. Let me break down the words Wa means And, Min means From Aaba means Fathers Ihim means Among theirs. Together it means ?. And from among their fathers?.
End Qoute
By doing so, he is Misrepresenting the truth of my Book; and God ordered me and all believers to uncover such lies (using the Quran and not our opinion), which in my opinion will create disgust in any Christen, who read it, against the Quran and Moslems.
You have no authority nor argument to base these accusations.
That's why we discuss. Check your self before throwing around words like shirk and kafir.Yourself and others in this Forum took the authority and right to call the Suni and Shia Kaffer and Moshrik. Why because some of them are
Saying about God what he did not say in the Quran.
Canceling out well-established verses using non-well- established ones.
Disbelieving in very well-established verses that contradict their opinion (own understanding of Religion).Well, is that a Double-Slandered Forum confused
By the way, I did not call Arnold Moshrik or Kaffere, rather I warned him several times that if he does that, he is committing the Worse Sin (intentionally or unintentionally)
Peace
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You can twist words very nicely, plus the word Abaahim implies both to father and mother, and so none are left out. Circles circles we go round and round...
You stated the following
Begining Qoute
The Quran clearly mentions Jesus's father. In surah An-Aam verse 84-87 Allah mentions names of 18 prophets at a stretch. Of these, verse 86 specifically mentions name of Isa as "?. And Zakariyya, and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas - everyone was of the righteous." After stating the names of the 18 prophets, in the very next verse 88 Allah goes on to say that688 And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren. And We chose them and We guided them towards the Right Path.
End QouteWhich means Jesus Father (your claim) was righteous.
Then you stated the Opposite
The verse only says that Jesus and his mother were favoured, it does not rule out a father being used to create Jesus. If the father wasn't favoured, then he wouldn't be mentioned in this verse, and he is not, so he wasn't favoured for some reason or not favoured in the way as Jesus and his mother were. Again your logic is faulty by thinking this proves a virginbirth.
Now, when you do that, you are the one who is twisting the truth and not me.
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Do not confuse not being favoured to being bad. The Jews were favoured, this doesn?t mean all the rest on earth were bad...
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)
confused
One time you say that his father was not Favored, and another time you say he was among the righteous.One time you say Abaohom means Fathers (well-established meaning), and one time you say it could be Father or Mother or both (not-well-established meaning).
Now, can you tell why I thing you are twisting the truth. yes
To closeout, your argument that jesus had a Father is not based on well-established Verses; thus, your argument is worth nothing aginest the Well-established verses that Confirm
"Jesus Virgin Birth".May God Lead you to the Truth
Salam -
Peace All
I'd suggest discussion of various takes on Jesus in the quran but if people continue to call each other fakes, & guess at what their affiliations may be, & call them names, and get mad at an alternative opinion do not be suprised if posts are promptly removed and you receive notice from the moderators that you will be banned.
Joe
Moderator
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I guess my question goes to those that rejectthe virgin birth, since for the others the answer would be obvious, my question is, as I already pointed out
"I can't recall that the Quran calls many people continually as "son of X" be it the father or the mother. I hardly think it is a question of calling him by the mothers or the fathers name, but rather of making of it such a big deal. No Moses son of X every time he is mentioned, Or Solomon, or any other. There must be a reason for it. "
Anybody can give an explanation for that? -
I guess my question goes to those that rejectthe virgin birth, since for the others the answer would be obvious, my question is, as I already pointed out
"I can't recall that the Quran calls many people continually as "son of X" be it the father or the mother. I hardly think it is a question of calling him by the mothers or the fathers name, but rather of making of it such a big deal. No Moses son of X every time he is mentioned, Or Solomon, or any other. There must be a reason for it. "
Anybody can give an explanation for that?Peace,
Because none of their mothers is the bases of a theology that made them ileh's.