Intercession - A confusing and contradicting statement in Quran
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God, there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustainer. No slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in heavens and in the Earth. Who will intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows their present and their future, and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His throne encompasses all of the heavens and the Earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great. 2255
Don't ask me why in some other verse the "except by God's leave" isn't included, but intercession is possible only by God's leave.
That mean no human can interced.
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No contradiction there..
There is a Day where no intercession is allowed.
And beware of a Day where no soul can avail another soul, nor will any intercession be accepted from it, nor will any ransom be taken, nor will they have supporters. 248
Aside from that Day, intercession is allowed by God's leave.
Your Lord is God who created the heavens and the Earth in six days, then He settled over the throne; He handles all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His leave. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember? 103
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Aside from that Day, intercession is allowed by God's leave.
Today how can God give anyone leave to intercede??
Would you please explain it ??
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Peace all,
There is no contradiction. Intercession is not accepted from any human for another human. It is just that in some cases what The God would have forgiven anyway will coincide with what a human pleaded/prayed/interceded on behalf of another and in such cases it would seem that The God accepted the human's intercession but He was going to do that anyway. 103, 1087, 20103 are examples of such cases.
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Today how can God give anyone leave to intercede??
Would you please explain it ??
ThanksAs long as you pray for an enemy of God (idol worshippers) you cannot intercede or pray for them.
9114 And Abraham seeking forgiveness for his father was only because of a promise he made to him. But when it became clear that he was God's enemy, he disowned him. Abraham was kind, compassionate.
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When some one is ill or in problems earned by himself for want of patience and Guidance; and while such is being recited to him by which if he corrects himself believing in the Truth, to them is intercession is allowed by the Chosen Men from among them. Then Allah keeps a keen watch over him upon his conduct until his last day. And on that day there is no helper; nor protector; nor intercessor.
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As long as you pray for an enemy of God (idol worshippers) you cannot intercede or pray for them.
9114 And Abraham seeking forgiveness for his father was only because of a promise he made to him. But when it became clear that he was God's enemy, he disowned him. Abraham was kind, compassionate.
Why did Ibrahim promised to intercede when it was prohibited?
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Peace,
Edit - sorry didnt answer your question.
Maybe this might.
1947 He said "Peace be upon you, I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. He has been most kind to me."
God has said
1723 And your Lord decreed that you shall not serve except Him, and do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reach old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor raise your voice at them, but say to them a kind saying.
1724 And lower for them the wing of humility through mercy, and say "My Lord, have mercy upon them as they have raised me when I was small."
1725 Your Lord is fully aware of what is in your souls. If you are good, then He is to the obedient a Forgiver.Peace,
Ali -
Peace
I do not believe that intercession was prohibited/forbidden, simply that it would not be accepted, and would not make any difference, unless, as mentioned above, it was already Allah's intention to forgive, thus making the intercession coincide with Allah's wishes.
Peace
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Peace
I do not believe that intercession was prohibited/forbidden, simply that it would not be accepted, and would not make any difference, unless, as mentioned above, it was already Allah's intention to forgive, thus making the intercession coincide with Allah's wishes.
Peace
Salaam
Excellent observation! bravo
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Peace
I do not believe that intercession was prohibited/forbidden, simply that it would not be accepted, and would not make any difference, unless, as mentioned above, it was already Allah's intention to forgive, thus making the intercession coincide with Allah's wishes.
Peace
So you believe intercession is allowed.That is another thing if it is accepted or not .Right ??
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Salaam
Excellent observation! bravo
Salaam Farida,
Thanks )
Peace
So you believe intercession is allowed.That is another thing if it is accepted or not .Right ??
Peace
That is nearly, but not quite what I meant. My reading is that intercession is not forbidden, that implies that it is allowed. If it was forbidden, the Holy Qur'an would specify that it is forbidden (as blood and flesh of swine is forbidden)
It is not a case of Allah accepting the intercession, but a case of Allah deciding to forgive anyway, thus the forgiveness from Allah, and the intercession from the person, merely co-incide. The person's intercession will not change Allah's decision, as Allah knows best, but, that does not mean, that the two things cannot ever co-incide.
An analogy. If a watch is broken, it only ever reports one time, for the sake of discussion, let's say 430. Twice a day, it will be 430. That is not to say that the watch is correctly telling the time, or even working, it just means that it's report, and the time, are co-inciding with each other. Hense, the expression, that a broken clock is right twice a day. I would humbly suggest, that it is a similar situation with intercession. If Allah chooses to forgive, then He will forgive regardless of anything. If someone chooses to intercede, then that might co-incide with Allah's forgiveness, but, that does not mean that the intercession has changed Allah's decision, as Allah knows best.Peace.
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Salaam Farida,
Thanks )
Peace
PeaceThat is nearly, but not quite what I meant. My reading is that intercession is not forbidden, that implies that it is allowed. If it was forbidden, the Holy Qur'an would specify that it is forbidden (as blood and flesh of swine is forbidden)
It is not a case of Allah accepting the intercession, but a case of Allah deciding to forgive anyway, thus the forgiveness from Allah, and the intercession from the person, merely co-incide. The person's intercession will not change Allah's decision, as Allah knows best, but, that does not mean, that the two things cannot ever co-incide.
An analogy. If a watch is broken, it only ever reports one time, for the sake of discussion, let's say 430. Twice a day, it will be 430. That is not to say that the watch is correctly telling the time, or even working, it just means that it's report, and the time, are co-inciding with each other. Hense, the expression, that a broken clock is right twice a day. I would humbly suggest, that it is a similar situation with intercession. If Allah chooses to forgive, then He will forgive regardless of anything. If someone chooses to intercede, then that might co-incide with Allah's forgiveness, but, that does not mean that the intercession has changed Allah's decision, as Allah knows best.Peace.
Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?
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Salaams you guys,
just a thought don't take it literally though.
You do need to see to whom God is saying what ever he is saying.Example
God was talking to the children of Israel about their ordeals- I think.
247
Children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message).248 (Intercession is not allowed- when Abraham intervened (with the then Pharaoh) to stop the slaughter of Jew boys.)
Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).
249 (Intercession is allowed- when Moses intervenes on behalf of the Jew?s and frees them.)
And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord
God Bless.
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Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?
Peace
"Any sort of prayer" is not the topic of discussion. The topic of discussion, is intercession. Right?
(Asking a question you know to be wrong, and saying "right?" at the end, does not make that question correct.)
If Allah chooses to change His decisions, He will, but, it will not be because of Human persuasion, but becayuse He chooses.
Does the text say that intercession is forbidden? Yes or no.
Please review the analogy I made about the broken watch If the watch stops at 430, then that is the only time it tells. If someone just so happens to look at the watch at 430, in that instance, by coincidence the time appears to be correct. That does not mean that the watch is working. It does not mean that the next time the person looks at the watch they will see the correct time, because they will not. They will see 430, and it would then be 435 (or any other time) The two things just happened to coincide and happen at the same time. Such is the case with intercession. If someone chooses to intercede (the watch) and Allah has decided to forgive anyway, while it could appear that the intercession has had an effect, it would actually be a case of the intercession co-inciding with Allah deciding to forgive. That is how I understand the text on intercession, I hope my example has clarified the point.
Peace
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Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?
I'm glad you acknowledge that. We can finally make some progress and see that action, not prayer to a being who needs it not, will solve our problems. Of course, the kuffar west happens to have beaten us to it by 600 years but better late than never.
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Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?
Whoa your sayings is like God is not fair to anyone who sincerely prays to Him and anyone who just let God decides his actions and fate. But still, it's a question not a statement. A daring question i'd say.
handshake
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http//ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=258
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Peace all,
For THOSE WHO DO GOOD IS GOOD (reward) and more (than this); and blackness or ignominy shall not cover their faces; these are the dwellers of the garden; in it they shall abide. 1026.
And (as for) THOSE WHO HAVE EARNED EVIL, the punishment of an evil is the like of it, and abasement shall come upon them-- they shall have none to protect them from Allah-- as if their faces had been covered with slices of the dense darkness of night; these are the inmates of the fire; in it they shall abide. 1027.
And as to those who believe and DO GOOD DEEDS, He will pay them fully their rewards; and ALLAH DOES NOT LOVE THE UNJUST. 357.
Quran makes it clear that ?good will be the reward for those, who do good deeds?
And ?bad will be the reward for those, who do bad deed?. If you sow wheat, you will not reap Rice, it?s unnatural.Those who do good, don?t need any intercession to qualify for the promised reward, it?s like the students who work hard and concentrate on their studies, do not require intercession to pass their exams.
It?s the bad students who focus on intercession, so that they may be amongst the successful students, without hard work. If those who don't deserve, qualify through intercession to be amongst the ranks of those who deserve, this will absolutely be UNFAIR to those, who had worked extremely hard and fulfilled the fundamental requirements to achieve success. So in my opinion/understanding there is no intercession on the Day of Judgment because Allah is not unfair.
just a thought don't take it literally though.
You do need to see to whom God is saying what ever he is saying.I agree with you. we also have to ponder on other verses in order to understand a particular verse.
I think this verse may help us to understand and resolve the issue.
What! Do those who seek after evil ways think that WE SHALL HOLD THEM EQUAL WITH THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND DO RIGHTEOUS DEEDS,- that equal will be their life and their death? ILL IS THE JUDGMENT THAT THEY MAKE. 4521.
Allah created the heavens and the earth for just ends, and in order that EACH SOUL MAY FIND THE RECOMPENSE OF WHAT IT HAS EARNED and none of them be wronged. 4522.
peace
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Intercession is Praying to Allah for forgiveness for each other while living in this world. If you analyze the various verses, there is no intercession in the hereafter. On the day of judgement none shall plead before Allah either before or after the pronouncement. All sounds will be silenced before Allah except the footsteps of the moving people towards their destination.
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