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  4. Intercession - A confusing and contradicting statement in Quran

Intercession - A confusing and contradicting statement in Quran

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  • H Offline
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    harish
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Peace to All;

    I'm a Hindu by birth. Recently I started reading Quran that was given to me by a Muslim friend to read it. Upon reading I come across lot of issues, one of them is here below.

    Certain verses of the Quran say that intercession is not allowed while other verses say that it is allowed by God's leave. It looks like contradicting and confusing statement. It is not described clearly in Quran why would God allow intercession while not allowing seems sensible. In what way intercession is going to benefit the soul?

    Intercession is not allowed
    And beware of a Day where no soul can avail another soul, nor will any intercession be accepted from it, nor will any ransom be taken, nor will they have supporters. 248

    O you who believe, spend from what We have provided for you before a Day will come when there is no trade, nor friendship, nor intercession; and the disbelievers are the wicked. 2254

    God, there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustainer. No slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in heavens and in the Earth. Who will intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows their present and their future, and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His throne encompasses all of the heavens and the Earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great. 2255

    Intercession is allowed
    On that Day, no intercession will be of help, except for he whom the Almighty allows and accepts what he has to say. 20109

    Your Lord is God who created the heavens and the Earth in six days, then He settled over the throne; He handles all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His leave. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember? 103

    None will posses intercession, except for he who has taken a pledge with the Almighty. 1087

    Can anyone explain whether or not it is an inconsistent statement?

    Regards!

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      AlFajr
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Peace Harish

      1966 And man says "Can it be that when I am dead, I will be brought out alive?"
      1967 Does man not remember that We created him before that and he was nothing at all?
      1968 By your Lord, We will gather them and the devils, then We will place them around Hell on their knees.
      1969 Then We will drag out from every group which of them was the worst opposition to the Almighty.
      1970 Then, it is We who are best aware of those who deserve to be burnt therein.
      1971 And every single one of you must pass by it. This for your Lord is a certainty that will come to pass.
      1972 Then We will save those who were righteous, and We leave the wicked in it on their knees.

      We all will need God to intercede. We do not know the means of his intercession.

      The verses talking abt there being no intercessors are concerning intercession by his "servants".

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        Yosemite
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        God, there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustainer. No slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in heavens and in the Earth. Who will intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows their present and their future, and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His throne encompasses all of the heavens and the Earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great. 2255

        Don't ask me why in some other verse the "except by God's leave" isn't included, but intercession is possible only by God's leave.

        That mean no human can interced.

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        • T Offline
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          Tony
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          No contradiction there..

          There is a Day where no intercession is allowed.

          And beware of a Day where no soul can avail another soul, nor will any intercession be accepted from it, nor will any ransom be taken, nor will they have supporters. 248

          Aside from that Day, intercession is allowed by God's leave.

          Your Lord is God who created the heavens and the Earth in six days, then He settled over the throne; He handles all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His leave. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember? 103

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            Al-Quran_only
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Aside from that Day, intercession is allowed by God's leave.

            Today how can God give anyone leave to intercede??
            Would you please explain it ??
            Thanks

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            • U Offline
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              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Peace all,

              There is no contradiction. Intercession is not accepted from any human for another human. It is just that in some cases what The God would have forgiven anyway will coincide with what a human pleaded/prayed/interceded on behalf of another and in such cases it would seem that The God accepted the human's intercession but He was going to do that anyway. 103, 1087, 20103 are examples of such cases.

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              • T Offline
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                Tony
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Today how can God give anyone leave to intercede??
                Would you please explain it ??
                Thanks

                As long as you pray for an enemy of God (idol worshippers) you cannot intercede or pray for them.

                9114 And Abraham seeking forgiveness for his father was only because of a promise he made to him. But when it became clear that he was God's enemy, he disowned him. Abraham was kind, compassionate.

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                  drfazl
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  When some one is ill or in problems earned by himself for want of patience and Guidance; and while such is being recited to him by which if he corrects himself believing in the Truth, to them is intercession is allowed by the Chosen Men from among them. Then Allah keeps a keen watch over him upon his conduct until his last day. And on that day there is no helper; nor protector; nor intercessor.

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                    Al-Quran_only
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    As long as you pray for an enemy of God (idol worshippers) you cannot intercede or pray for them.

                    9114 And Abraham seeking forgiveness for his father was only because of a promise he made to him. But when it became clear that he was God's enemy, he disowned him. Abraham was kind, compassionate.

                    Why did Ibrahim promised to intercede when it was prohibited?

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                    • A Offline
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                      alalmakt
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Peace,

                      Edit - sorry didnt answer your question.

                      Maybe this might.

                      1947 He said "Peace be upon you, I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. He has been most kind to me."

                      God has said

                      1723 And your Lord decreed that you shall not serve except Him, and do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reach old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor raise your voice at them, but say to them a kind saying.
                      1724 And lower for them the wing of humility through mercy, and say "My Lord, have mercy upon them as they have raised me when I was small."
                      1725 Your Lord is fully aware of what is in your souls. If you are good, then He is to the obedient a Forgiver.

                      Peace,
                      Ali

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                        RaseemNaqqaash
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Peace

                        I do not believe that intercession was prohibited/forbidden, simply that it would not be accepted, and would not make any difference, unless, as mentioned above, it was already Allah's intention to forgive, thus making the intercession coincide with Allah's wishes.

                        Peace

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                          farida
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Peace

                          I do not believe that intercession was prohibited/forbidden, simply that it would not be accepted, and would not make any difference, unless, as mentioned above, it was already Allah's intention to forgive, thus making the intercession coincide with Allah's wishes.

                          Peace

                          Salaam

                          Excellent observation! bravo

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                          • A Offline
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                            Al-Quran_only
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Peace

                            I do not believe that intercession was prohibited/forbidden, simply that it would not be accepted, and would not make any difference, unless, as mentioned above, it was already Allah's intention to forgive, thus making the intercession coincide with Allah's wishes.

                            Peace

                            So you believe intercession is allowed.That is another thing if it is accepted or not .Right ??

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                              RaseemNaqqaash
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Salaam

                              Excellent observation! bravo

                              Salaam Farida,

                              Thanks )

                              Peace

                              So you believe intercession is allowed.That is another thing if it is accepted or not .Right ??

                              Peace

                              That is nearly, but not quite what I meant. My reading is that intercession is not forbidden, that implies that it is allowed. If it was forbidden, the Holy Qur'an would specify that it is forbidden (as blood and flesh of swine is forbidden)

                              It is not a case of Allah accepting the intercession, but a case of Allah deciding to forgive anyway, thus the forgiveness from Allah, and the intercession from the person, merely co-incide. The person's intercession will not change Allah's decision, as Allah knows best, but, that does not mean, that the two things cannot ever co-incide.
                              An analogy. If a watch is broken, it only ever reports one time, for the sake of discussion, let's say 430. Twice a day, it will be 430. That is not to say that the watch is correctly telling the time, or even working, it just means that it's report, and the time, are co-inciding with each other. Hense, the expression, that a broken clock is right twice a day. I would humbly suggest, that it is a similar situation with intercession. If Allah chooses to forgive, then He will forgive regardless of anything. If someone chooses to intercede, then that might co-incide with Allah's forgiveness, but, that does not mean that the intercession has changed Allah's decision, as Allah knows best.

                              Peace.

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                              • A Offline
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                                Al-Quran_only
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Salaam Farida,

                                Thanks )

                                Peace
                                Peace

                                That is nearly, but not quite what I meant. My reading is that intercession is not forbidden, that implies that it is allowed. If it was forbidden, the Holy Qur'an would specify that it is forbidden (as blood and flesh of swine is forbidden)

                                It is not a case of Allah accepting the intercession, but a case of Allah deciding to forgive anyway, thus the forgiveness from Allah, and the intercession from the person, merely co-incide. The person's intercession will not change Allah's decision, as Allah knows best, but, that does not mean, that the two things cannot ever co-incide.
                                An analogy. If a watch is broken, it only ever reports one time, for the sake of discussion, let's say 430. Twice a day, it will be 430. That is not to say that the watch is correctly telling the time, or even working, it just means that it's report, and the time, are co-inciding with each other. Hense, the expression, that a broken clock is right twice a day. I would humbly suggest, that it is a similar situation with intercession. If Allah chooses to forgive, then He will forgive regardless of anything. If someone chooses to intercede, then that might co-incide with Allah's forgiveness, but, that does not mean that the intercession has changed Allah's decision, as Allah knows best.

                                Peace.

                                Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Salaams you guys,

                                  just a thought don't take it literally though.
                                  You do need to see to whom God is saying what ever he is saying.

                                  Example

                                  God was talking to the children of Israel about their ordeals- I think.

                                  247
                                  Children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message).

                                  248 (Intercession is not allowed- when Abraham intervened (with the then Pharaoh) to stop the slaughter of Jew boys.)

                                  Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

                                  249 (Intercession is allowed- when Moses intervenes on behalf of the Jew?s and frees them.)

                                  And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord

                                  God Bless.

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                                    RaseemNaqqaash
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?

                                    Peace

                                    "Any sort of prayer" is not the topic of discussion. The topic of discussion, is intercession. Right?

                                    (Asking a question you know to be wrong, and saying "right?" at the end, does not make that question correct.)

                                    If Allah chooses to change His decisions, He will, but, it will not be because of Human persuasion, but becayuse He chooses.

                                    Does the text say that intercession is forbidden? Yes or no.

                                    Please review the analogy I made about the broken watch If the watch stops at 430, then that is the only time it tells. If someone just so happens to look at the watch at 430, in that instance, by coincidence the time appears to be correct. That does not mean that the watch is working. It does not mean that the next time the person looks at the watch they will see the correct time, because they will not. They will see 430, and it would then be 435 (or any other time) The two things just happened to coincide and happen at the same time. Such is the case with intercession. If someone chooses to intercede (the watch) and Allah has decided to forgive anyway, while it could appear that the intercession has had an effect, it would actually be a case of the intercession co-inciding with Allah deciding to forgive. That is how I understand the text on intercession, I hope my example has clarified the point.

                                    Peace

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                                      unknownuser
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?

                                      I'm glad you acknowledge that. We can finally make some progress and see that action, not prayer to a being who needs it not, will solve our problems. Of course, the kuffar west happens to have beaten us to it by 600 years but better late than never.

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                                        Fadhli
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Your theory is equally applicable to any sort of prayer.If God has decided something ,he is not going to change it.Then there is no use of praying for "yourself or others".Right?

                                        Whoa your sayings is like God is not fair to anyone who sincerely prays to Him and anyone who just let God decides his actions and fate. But still, it's a question not a statement. A daring question i'd say.

                                        handshake

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                                          CavemanDoctor
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          http//ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=258

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