How do you figure 5:20?
-
Peace all,
520 And Moses said to his people "My people, remember God's favor upon you that he made amongst you prophets, and made you kings, and he gave you what He had not given any from the worlds."
Do any of you understand how Moses was able to say this? What kings is he referring to exactly? What historical timeline is he alluding to? How can we understand this?
adjwi
Peace adjwi,
Likely this refers to the giving of the Torah John 1034 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods" '? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came?and Scripture cannot be broken......"
Jesus refers here to Psalm 826, 7 - I said, "You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High. But you will die like men, and fall like one of the princes." It wouldn't hurt to read the whole Psalm to get the context.
The word in Hebrew in Psalm 82 is elohim, which can refer to God or a god, but also refers contextually to designated rulers and authorities, or as the Quran says, "kings". Jesus' interpretation it is that it refers in this psalm to the Jews who were given the Torah, that they were appointed as rulers through the giving of God's revelation. I believe this is also what 520 says. The implication would be, in my opinion, that whoever has God's revelation (whether it is the Torah, Gospel, or Quran) has the authority and responsibility to see to its establishment as a corporate way of life.
-
Peace all,
520 And Moses said to his people "My people, remember God's favor upon you that he made amongst you prophets, and made you kings, and he gave you what He had not given any from the worlds."
Do any of you understand how Moses was able to say this? What kings is he referring to exactly? What historical timeline is he alluding to? How can we understand this?
adjwi
Salaams Br's,
How about Prophet Joseph's line?
hmm
God Bless.
-
Peace all,
How about Prophet Joseph's line?
What seams to be presented by Moses is the fact that his people had been made kings. This would be before Saul, before David and Solomon, before the psalm, before these would have been made kings. I am unaware that Joseph's line had been made kings in Egypt that Moses would had reminded them of. Is this the view?
adjwi
-
I wasn't aware that Muslims and Jews were in a population race.
I find truth in that statement (i.e. the original post), as in applied to the here and now. The point being, that Jews are outnumbered completely in this world and have always been, yet have more or less always had the upper hand (1940s excluded, of course).
-
Peace all,
What seams to be presented by Moses is the fact that his people had been made kings. This would be before Saul, before David and Solomon, before the psalm, before these would have been made kings. I am unaware that Joseph's line had been made kings in Egypt that Moses would had reminded them of. Is this the view?
adjwi
Salaams Br,
I hope this makes sense.
(malakun- singular)
68
They say "Why is not an angel sent down to him?" If we did send down an angel, the matter would be settled at once, and no respite would be granted them.(mulookun-plural)
520
Remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.At 68 it?s an Angel and at 520 its kings!
It seems it could be any person in authority- who functions by rules.
(And when on earth were they malakuns or mulookuns)
454
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? But We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.I do believe that is how the Israelites lived strict followers of law/rules and when the orders where given by pharaoh- to slaughter their sons, they actually carried those out too -accept one person of course, Abraham who refused to carry out the order of the then pharaoh or what ever he called himself.
Salaams.
-
I find truth in that statement (i.e. the original post), as in applied to the here and now. The point being, that Jews are outnumbered completely in this world and have always been, yet have more or less always had the upper hand (1940s excluded, of course).
Ok, I gotcha. That makes sense.
-
Peace all,
Salaams Br,
I hope this makes sense.
(malakun- singular)
68
They say "Why is not an angel sent down to him?" If we did send down an angel, the matter would be settled at once, and no respite would be granted them.(mulookun-plural)
520
Remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.At 68 it?s an Angel and at 520 its kings!
It seems it could be any person in authority- who functions by rules.
(And when on earth were they malakuns or mulookuns)
454
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? But We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.I do believe that is how the Israelites lived strict followers of law/rules and when the orders where given by pharaoh- to slaughter their sons, they actually carried those out too -accept one person of course, Abraham who refused to carry out the order of the then pharaoh or what ever he called himself.
Salaams.
Gheez, those translations... ???
So if it isn't kings, we know that Joseph for one was in a position of authority. So it can be understood that he wasn't the last. Makes sense. Different version of history as I remember it though.
As for the story of Abraham, it seems like your confusing stories as he would have lived before those events.
adjwi
-
Peace all,
Gheez, those translations... ???
So if it isn't kings, we know that Joseph for one was in a position of authority. So it can be understood that he wasn't the last. Makes sense. Different version of history as I remember it though.
As for the story of Abraham, it seems like your confusing stories as he would have lived before those events.
adjwi
Well looking into it again.....
520
Remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.I think the answer is in the verse itself.
Moses and his brother where both prophets.
When was it that He produced prophets from among them, making the people kings, AND giving them WHAT WASN?T GIVEN TO ANY OTHER PEOPLE?
There where prophets from among them debating with pharaoh and his cabinet on behalf of the Israelites who where thus at par with the then king- thus they where in a way kings.
Have you ever seen a whole nation getting freedom to tell a pharaoh ?get stuffed- and be in the RIGHT- before moving on??
146
Remember! Moses said to his people "Call to mind the favour of Allah to you when He delivered you from the people of Pharaoh they set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons, and let your women-folk live therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord."Just my currant thoughts- may be right???
God Bless.
-
Miim-Lam-Kaf = to rule/command/reign, be capable, to control, power/authority, king, kingdom.
malaka vb. (1)
perf. act. 43, 424, 425, 436, 1671, 236, 2431, 2433, 2458, 2461, 3028, 3350, 3352, 3355, 7030
impf. act. 517, 525, 541, 576, 7188, 1031, 1049, 1316, 1673, 1756, 17100, 1987, 2089, 253, 253, 2723, 2917, 3422, 3442, 3513, 3943, 4386, 468, 4811, 604, 7221, 7837, 8219
n.vb. (1) malk 2087
n.vb. (2) mulk 2102, 2107, 2247, 2247, 2247, 2248, 2251, 2258, 326, 326, 326, 3189, 453, 454, 517, 518, 540, 5120, 673, 7158, 9116, 12101, 17111, 20120, 2256, 2442, 252, 252, 2526, 3513, 3810, 3820, 3835, 396, 3944, 4016, 4029, 4249, 4351, 4385, 4527, 4814, 572, 575, 641, 671, 7620, 859
pcple. act. 14, 326, 3671
pcple. pass. 1675malak n.m. 2102, 68, 68, 69, 650, 720, 1112, 1131, 1231, 1795, 257, 3211, 5326, 6917, 8922
malakut n.m. 675, 7185, 2388, 3683
malik n.m. (pl. muluk) 2246, 2247, 520, 1243, 1250, 1254, 1272, 1276, 1879, 20114, 23116, 2734, 5923, 621, 1142
malik n.m. 5455
malik n. prop. 4377
LL, V8, p 277
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
It's more accurate to translate the malikah as 'The controlling forces' NOT 'the angels'. The root MLK implies control. Example, a king is in control. Remember God is 'Malik Annas' or 'King of mankind' (1142).
Anyways, instead of concentration on 520 (which you can't get an accurate history of). Concentrate on 521-26. A demonstration of 'how to become a rejecter.'
-
Salaams Br, All,
here is what i found in just the first two;
521
"O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."why would you be ruined unless you enter a certain land?
I think they are being asked to enter a holy disposition.
522
They said "O Moses! In this land are a people of exceeding strength Never shall we enter it until they leave it if (once) they leave, then shall we enter."They are saying there are people who are of a rebellious nature so how can we enter a holy disposition ? we will not enter it until they remain tyrants.
hypno
God Bless.
-
Simple, I will try again...
Concentrate on 521-26Notice in 525 and 526 these people are called Al Fasiqeen by Moses and God. Who are Al Fasiqeen?
For their character traits see 950, 979-80, 990-96, 2174 etc... Notice that Moses doesn't stone them to death rotfl
Back to the original topic. 520 doesn't make much sense if you hold the view that 'bani israel = jews'. They are also connected to prophet Nuh/Noah (173) Noah didn't go to some imaginary land of Israel, when it didn't even exist. 769, 1073-74 is more evidence of this. Notice also what Noah prayed for (7126).
We (as in mankind) are bani Israel. Are we not their descendants? Just like bani Adam = us.
For further info. about bani israel, here's what a brother wrote about bani israel.
2/40-46 speaks about Bani Israil for the first time in the Quran
(sequentialy speaking)Who are Bani Israil?
Bani Israil is the community with Musa and Nuh (17/3). They do not
belong to any particular race or culture. They have undertaken the
covenant with Allah and have been elevated over all other nations
(2/47). They have been given 'al-kitaab', 'al-hukm', 'an-nubuwwat'
(45/16)In 2/40-46, we find Bani Israil reminded of what to do in order to
live up to their rolea. To fulfill the covenant
b. to be terrified of only Allah
c. not to be the first to reject (because they have the message)
d. not to sell of Allah's signs and to be mindful of Him alone
e. not to cover al-haqq with falsehood, showing that they possess al-
haqq.
f. to establish as-salaat, bring az-zakaat and to establish the
system of Allah (ruku is the opposite of takzeeb, in chapter 77)
g. to forget their own nafs if they wished to command righteousness
h. to seek optimum performance (al-awn) with endurance and as-salaat
i. the above isnt easy unless one has certainty of meeting with Allah.This is the summarised reminder for Bani Israil. If we analyse its
content, we will find that in order to be God's community as they
were, there is a set mentality and action strategy we need to follow. -
Simple, I will try again...
Back to the original topic. 520 doesn't make much sense if you hold the view that 'bani Israel = jews'. They are also connected to prophet Nuh/Noah (173) Noah didn't go to some imaginary land of Israel, when didn't even exist. 769, 1073-74 is more evidence of this. Notice also what Noah prayed for (7126).
We (as in mankind) are bani Israel. Are we not their descendants? Just like bani Adam = us.
There is no land of Israel- you are very welcome to start a topic if you want.
And they didn't stay out of "land of Israel" for forty years or something , but where in such a state after Moses was taken away by Pharaoh- for a term of thirty years and then he spent another 10 years in medyan thus making a term of forty before the Israelis where rescued by Moses who had lived for a term of forty years in a tarnished state after having lost all there first born on orders of the then Pharaoh.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12448.msg98120#msg98120
I think you may develope your understanding gradually though.
But if you think you know it all - still its okay.
God Bless.
-
Peace all, House M.D. ,
We (as in mankind) are bani Israel. Are we not their descendants? Just like bani Adam = us.
This I find very interesting and it is conform to my reading as of now. The linkage between Jacob being Israel is nowhere to be found in the qur'an. This is something which is transmitted through the Old Testament. Bear in mind that Jesus' address was to bani-Israel.
616 And when Jesus son of Mary said O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say This is mere magic.
So who exactly are the bani israail according to the qur'an? What is their role? Who are they today?
adjwi
-
Simple, I will try again...
Notice in 525 and 526 these people are called Al Fasiqeen by Moses and God. Who are Al Fasiqeen?
For their character traits see 950, 979-80, 990-96, 2174 etc... Notice that Moses doesn't stone them to death rotfl
Back to the original topic. 520 doesn't make much sense if you hold the view that 'bani israel = jews'. They are also connected to prophet Nuh/Noah (173) Noah didn't go to some imaginary land of Israel, when it didn't even exist. 769, 1073-74 is more evidence of this. Notice also what Noah prayed for (7126).
We (as in mankind) are bani Israel. Are we not their descendants? Just like bani Adam = us.
For further info. about bani israel, here's what a brother wrote about bani israel.
I think we do need relaxation now and then Br. - and i for one am planning mine.
But looking at your post again, yes it makes more sense now.
we are the children of Israel as are we children of Adam e.t.c and then again the Jews where as well children of Adam and of Israel.
Right?
Salaams.
-
Peace all,
Yes.
But, re-read 520-32. Notice how it starts with bani israel, then goes to adam's two sons, then comes right back to bani israel. I think they mean the same thing. Bani Adam is theoretical, Bani Israel is operational i.e. shows us how the concepts work.
Also, 7103-71 is exclusively about bani israel. But 7172 references bani adam. Again, connecting the two concepts.
I wasn't sure about this myself, I am convinced now.
Also, look at 262 in context. The address is bani israel.
261 And you said "O Moses, we will not be patient to one type of food, so call for us your Lord that He may bring forth what the Earth grows of its beans, cucumbers, garlic, lentils, and onions." He said "Would you trade that which is lowly with that which is good?" Descend to Egypt, you will have in it what you have asked for. They were thus stricken with humiliation and disgrace, and they remained under God's wrath for they were disbelieving in God's signs, and killing the prophets with no justification; this is for what they have disobeyed and transgressed.
262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
263 And We took your covenant, and raised the mount above you "Take what We have given you with strength, and remember what is in it that you may be righteous."
-
Salaams Br,
why do you say;
Bani Adam is theoretical
They where real too.........i believe.
God Bless.
-
Salaams ,
Bani Israel
Children of him who fights for Allah?s sake (Doesn?t mean just hand to hand combat)=(might mean)those who fight for Allah sake.Bani Adama
Children of him who sheds blood= (might mean)Those who shed blood....I think.
Gods Blessings All.