Washing and wudu in the quran?
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as far as i recall every time "show us your proof if you are truthful" is used it is in reference to a claim by non believers... and while you may not always agree with what simple may say i think it's far fetched to claim unbelief on his part
that's the problem i have with the verse chopping and using verses against eachother as weapons... it's neither fair nor accurate
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Speaking of far fetched, I did not imply/claim unbelief on his part P
However, by its nature of usage in AQ, the phrase "show us your proof if you are truthful" is usually in response to a claim by non believers, I will give you that.
Bringing proof/burhan is the point, and so far I've seen very little to none from 'simple'.
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when he is providing what he feels are valid translations what would constitute proof for you?
Speaking of far fetched, I did not imply/claim unbelief on his part
but you did use a phrasing that is consistently used in quran against non believers, that is why i am concerned... i don't see throwing around "show us your proof" as being very constructive
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i see it that 56 clearly refers to washing with water (ideally) before prayer (which can involve bowing, prostrating, and dhikr).
2277 and other ayat refer, as i see it, to physical motions to be done in prayer. this is, after all, a deen. a religion for (and of) life, a system, a path that is to be walked, not simply looked at.
i respect others' inclinations towards more abstract interpretations of these verses, but i incline towards the literal on this point.Peace,
Respectfully.I agree with you.
I mean, that's why there's more water on Earth then dry soil. So no one can complain, that he or she cannot wash himself or herself.I believe that washing is literal because God mentions specific parts of the body. When you get angry, it's all in the brain, the anger and hate start in the brain so how can one wash brain, right? Yeah, you can stop being angry and hateful but God tells us in 56 how to wash ourselves to perform the prayer. It's about obediance.
Peace.
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Salaams Br.AaRon, Waqas, All,
Sorry the page of lanes was 2993 not 2003 - i havn't been here for a while otherwise i would have corrected it.
We are and have been indoctrinated into the traditional system of belief so much so that we aren?t inclined to think with common sense when it comes to our belief systems? just like any other religionist, a Hindu, a Sikh, a Buddhist e.t.c you may well have a hard time reasoning with a Sikh to remove his turban or with a Hindu to stop drinking urine or a Buddhist to stop bowing to idols. For some reason a person indoctrinated will feel afraid to give up what took years to indoctrinate.
It is only a very few people even here who may think with a truly open mind and reason.Even a buffalo will splash out to wash according to its feelings - as with most other animals.
Similarly people of all races wash themselves, AND THEY DIDN?T NEED A SCRIPTURE TO TELL THEM, it isn?t that a Muslim wash and no body else does.
People in most of the advanced nations wash at least once a day.
I remember most of the time I used to look for soap before going to the toilet in a masjid- at the time of wudu in case you don?t find it after wards. You will be lucky to find soap in any public toilet in Pakistan now is that hygienic.
The quran repeats over and over again to up take counsel and agree to the best there-of and tread accordingly.
56 Using the quran, lanes and the quranic dictionary.
O you who believe when you take to counsel then wash/cleanse yourselves- actions and your earnings till the thing by which you gain benefit/services you provide holds back from doing evil with a firm setting and your people till they do likewise and when you are under an obligation/in sin then purify yourself and if you are morally sick or trying to find out or has come one of you from the vying/ contending with one another or you not been able to have contact with women and not you find essence then look for the learned, ascended, good
And you wipe your-selves, actions and your earnings from it does not want Allah to lay upon you any hardship but He wants to purify you and to complete His favor upon you so that you may give thanks.God Bless.
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peace simple,
Thanks for the advice on indoctrination. One way to determine the degree of indoctrination, if any, is to weight up evidence and scutinise the info.
Since you did not answer most of the questions I asked you in this thread, the above cant be done.
