Al-Bait in sura 106; A concept or a physical place of gatherring.

unknownuser

Salaams All,

well you're vote? bravo

Original translation;

106
For the covenants (of security and safeguard enjoyed) by the Quraish
Their covenants (covering) journeys by winter and summer
Let them adore the Lord of this House,
Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear (of danger).

Using Quranic dictionary and lanes.

Indeed Unity/ compact/ Alliance/ Covenant for the purpose of trading- acquiring/ earning.
Their covenants are strength against division and warring/ plundering.
Let them adore the lord of this here concept.
Who provides them with food against hunger, and security against fear (of danger?)

Gods Blessings on All.

arnoldyasin

Peace,

My understanding is

Rabb and Bayt are directly connected to another. A Rabb is a person responisble for the inhabitants of a house, he is responsible for the upbringing, developing, protection, nurturing. The sustainer of their being, of their future, of their possibilities.

God calls Himself our Rabb. So what is His "house" He uses to bring us up in? To nurture us? To protect us? To sustain our being, our future and our possibilities and abilities?

There are 2. This Universe itself and the Deen. His System as explained in the Quran. As both have the above abilities.

The Universe Bayt is given for free without any effort. This is the Rahman feature of Allah, His giving all of our basic possibilities and needs in nature for our main development as air, food and so on, just a womb (Rihmun) gives these to a foetus.

The Quranic Deen System can only be attained through effort. This is the Raheem feature of Allah. To attain new levels of existence, we must work hard to create the Quranic system that will ensure Peace and Prosperity on Earth otherwise we will fail as a species and die out as this is the law of evolution just as a womb (Rihmun) will reject the foetus if it is not fit enough for life.

So the Rabb and Bayt connection is vital to understand the Cosmology of the Quran.

progod

Peace,

What is you definition for rihlatun, shitaa' and saif.

Also how does to earn a living for one's family (one of the meanings of qarasha) only mean to trade? This could be anything. It could also be to work on your own fields, caring for your animals and slaughtering them or doing other work that has nothing to do with trade. Also how do you account for quraish being a diminuitive, and not just qarsh?

Godbless,
Anwar

unknownuser

Peace,

My understanding is

Rabb and Bayt are directly connected to another. A Rabb is a person responisble for the inhabitants of a house, he is responsible for the upbringing, developing, protection, nurturing. The sustainer of their being, of their future, of their possibilities.

God calls Himself our Rabb. So what is His "house" He uses to bring us up in? To nurture us? To protect us? To sustain our being, our future and our possibilities and abilities?

There are 2. This Universe itself and the Deen. His System as explained in the Quran. As both have the above abilities.

The Universe Bayt is given for free without any effort. This is the Rahman feature of Allah, His giving all of our basic possibilities and needs in nature for our main development as air, food and so on, just a womb (Rihmun) gives these to a foetus.

The Quranic Deen System can only be attained through effort. This is the Raheem feature of Allah. To attain new levels of existence, we must work hard to create the Quranic system that will ensure Peace and Prosperity on Earth otherwise we will fail as a species and die out as this is the law of evolution just as a womb (Rihmun) will reject the foetus if it is not fit enough for life.

So the Rabb and Bayt connection is vital to understand the Cosmology of the Quran.

Hi Br.

I agree with your understanding would like to add;

........ we must work hard to create the Quranic system (a righteous system free of evil) that.............

Such a system was set up by All the prophets for their times, but does need to be added to as humanity progresses i.e new laws for new situations, new times, but obviously based on the same basic foundation- a system free of evil.

I think.

Salaams.

unknownuser

Peace,

What is you definition for rihlatun, shitaa' and saif.

Also how does to earn a living for one's family (one of the meanings of qarasha) only mean to trade? This could be anything. It could also be to work on your own fields, caring for your animals and slaughtering them or doing other work that has nothing to do with trade. Also how do you account for quraish being a diminuitive, and not just qarsh?

Godbless,
Anwar

Hi Anwar,
I just copied some words from lanes and or Qd.
Qarasha = Victoriuse/ to acquire/ be able to earn.
Ilaf = Unity, Compact, Alliance, Covenant for the purpose of trade, Obligation involving responsibility for safety and protection. It doesn't mean trade only.

Its all to do with your relationship with others- relating with others on a friendly basis- which is the way to a prosperous life for all.

God Bless you.

mkhan174

Hi Anwar,
I just copied some words from lanes and or Qd.
Qarasha = Victoriuse/ to acquire/ be able to earn.
Ilaf = Unity, Compact, Alliance, Covenant for the purpose of trade, Obligation involving responsibility for safety and protection. It doesn't mean trade only.

Its all to do with your relationship with others- relating with others on a friendly basis- which is the way to a prosperous life for all.

God Bless you.

Hi
Do not follow Omar Mannan /Edward Lane in addition to Allah.Allah's book is self sufficient ,so you do not need help of any Extra-Quranic source.

unknownuser

Br Mkhan,

Isn't the original book, written, by someone other then God Himself.
And It was then translated by men other then God?

We should always ,i think seek counsel of those knowledgable who have knowledge of a subject- but weigh and consider but also seek Gods guidance in our hearts.

confused

God Bless All.

mkhan174

Br Mkhan,

Isn't the original book, written, by someone other then God Himself.
And It was then translated by men other then God?

We should always ,i think seek counsel of those knowledgable who have knowledge of a subject- but weigh and consider but also seek Gods guidance in our hearts.

confused

God Bless All.

Hadith = talk (kalaam)
A talk from Allah = Hadith of Allah
A talk from Prophet = Hadith of Rasool
A talk from Edward Lane = Hadith of Edward Lane
A talk from Omar Manaan = Hadith of Omar Manaan
Which Hadith ? You will like to follow and leave others ?

progod

Great, someone else who knows no Arabic and doesn't realize that even those who translated the Quran for him used these dictionaries and that these dictionaries only give the meanings of the words that Arabs used at the time which were the words God borrowed to write the Quran so that they could understand it. The whole Arabic language is hadeethul-&arabi

When you read translations also keep in mind that they also consulted dictionaries to understand the ARABIC words in the Quran. Please do not resort to illogical extremism opening up a way for hypocrisy by following someone's translation that does the same thing that you say others should not do. Translations of the Quran are also hadeethul-mutarjimi, that is why you will generally find on translated Qurans Ma&aaneeya al-Quran (the meanings of the Quran). This anti-establishment anti-education attitude hurts more than it helps. The Quran is not a magical book that everyone who reads it can understand without knowing a lick of Arabic and rejecting all of the known meanings of its words, because they are found in a book other than the Quran. This is ignorant talk. It is one thing to deny the hadeeth but a whole other thing to resort to this type of ignorant thinking.

Also, Simple I would urge you to try to stick to context and not try to make every verse in the Quran fit into your understanding of happiness and success (which you might see as the Quran ultimate goal for mankind). Also knowing roots is not enough you have to also know the forms of Arabic words and their purposes (nouns, adjectives, definite, indefinite and other nuances of any language).

Godbless,
Anwar

mkhan174

Great, someone else who knows no Arabic and doesn't realize that even those who translated the Quran for him used these dictionaries and that these dictionaries only give the meanings of the words that Arabs used at the time which were the words God borrowed to write the Quran so that they could understand it. The whole Arabic language is hadeethul-&arabi

When you read translations also keep in mind that they also consulted dictionaries to understand the ARABIC words in the Quran. Please do not resort to illogical extremism opening up a way for hypocrisy by following someone's translation that does the same thing that you say others should not do. Translations of the Quran are also hadeethul-mutarjimi, that is why you will generally find on translated Qurans Ma&aaneeya al-Quran (the meanings of the Quran). This anti-establishment anti-education attitude hurts more than it helps. The Quran is not a magical book that everyone who reads it can understand without knowing a lick of Arabic and rejecting all of the known meanings of its words, because they are found in a book other than the Quran. This is ignorant talk. It is one thing to deny the hadeeth but a whole other thing to resort to this type of ignorant thinking.

Also, Simple I would urge you to try to stick to context and not try to make every verse in the Quran fit into your understanding of happiness and success (which you might see as the Quran ultimate goal for mankind). Also knowing roots is not enough you have to also know the forms of Arabic words and their purposes (nouns, adjectives, definite, indefinite and other nuances of any language).

Godbless,
Anwar

Hi Anwar
Words and meanings of Classical Arabic (which were present at the time of revelation of the Quran) have been transmitted exactly in the same way the the traditions and Hadiths of the Holy Prophet. For the

Books of words and meaning of classical arabic ,names are Taj -ul -Aroos ,Lisaan-ul Arab,Qamoos ul Muheet etc.
-Books for the meaning of Islamic terms (prophet's traditions) ,names are "Sahih Bukhari,Sahih Muslim ,Abu-Dawd etc.
Why is it so ? Rejecting one and accepting other .Reason ??
What is the assurance that the meaning and words have been narrated correctly in the dictionaries .These are as unreliable sources as Hadith books are.

unknownuser

Salaams Mkhan,

A talk from Allah = Hadith of Allah

I agree with You.

But it is a Reading now, and for that matter a reading in english or urdu............

But lets leave it there.......

Thanks Br.

unknownuser

Great, someone else who knows no Arabic and doesn't realize that even those who translated the Quran for him used these dictionaries and that these dictionaries only give the meanings of the words that Arabs used at the time which were the words God borrowed to write the Quran so that they could understand it. The whole Arabic language is hadeethul-&arabi

When you read translations also keep in mind that they also consulted dictionaries to understand the ARABIC words in the Quran. Please do not resort to illogical extremism opening up a way for hypocrisy by following someone's translation that does the same thing that you say others should not do. Translations of the Quran are also hadeethul-mutarjimi, that is why you will generally find on translated Qurans Ma&aaneeya al-Quran (the meanings of the Quran). This anti-establishment anti-education attitude hurts more than it helps. The Quran is not a magical book that everyone who reads it can understand without knowing a lick of Arabic and rejecting all of the known meanings of its words, because they are found in a book other than the Quran. This is ignorant talk. It is one thing to deny the hadeeth but a whole other thing to resort to this type of ignorant thinking.

Also, Simple I would urge you to try to stick to context and not try to make every verse in the Quran fit into your understanding of happiness and success (which you might see as the Quran ultimate goal for mankind). Also knowing roots is not enough you have to also know the forms of Arabic words and their purposes (nouns, adjectives, definite, indefinite and other nuances of any language).

Godbless,
Anwar

Sorry i have my own Opposite view and you have yours.

But Thanks.

unknownuser

Hi Anwar
Words and meanings of Classical Arabic (which were present at the time of revelation of the Quran) have been transmitted exactly in the same way the the traditions and Hadiths of the Holy Prophet. For the

Books of words and meaning of classical arabic ,names are Taj -ul -Aroos ,Lisaan-ul Arab,Qamoos ul Muheet etc.
-Books for the meaning of Islamic terms (prophet's traditions) ,names are "Sahih Bukhari,Sahih Muslim ,Abu-Dawd etc.
Why is it so ? Rejecting one and accepting other .Reason ??
What is the assurance that the meaning and words have been narrated correctly in the dictionaries .These are as unreliable sources as Hadith books are.

Hi Anwar,

love to see your understanding here Br.

yes

God Bless.

progod

Hi Anwar
Words and meanings of Classical Arabic (which were present at the time of revelation of the Quran) have been transmitted exactly in the same way the the traditions and Hadiths of the Holy Prophet. For the

Books of words and meaning of classical arabic ,names are Taj -ul -Aroos ,Lisaan-ul Arab,Qamoos ul Muheet etc.
-Books for the meaning of Islamic terms (prophet's traditions) ,names are "Sahih Bukhari,Sahih Muslim ,Abu-Dawd etc.
Why is it so ? Rejecting one and accepting other .Reason ??
What is the assurance that the meaning and words have been narrated correctly in the dictionaries .These are as unreliable sources as Hadith books are.

Simple, I can't believe you could actually give this any real thought. Think about this. Firstly, the hadeeths are rumors that have been passed down from narrator to narrator. That is what makes them unreliable because they are rumors. We don't believe in them because rumor is not good enough, especially when it spreads over the span of a hundred or more years. Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawood and the rest didn't make these up. They only recorded the rumor that was spread out about the last prophet, the Quran and other things before the time when these people decided to collect these rumors. They are not reliable because they are rumors (and the Quran also says that 4 witnesses are needed for any rumor to be true so there could be a hadeeth out there that has four witnesses down the chain and is only redundant to the Quran or adds a piece of the picture to the days of the prohet which has no affect no the message of the Quran).

But besides that like I said the fault of the hadeeth is that it is rumor. Now the dictionaries are not rumor. Their only purpose was to record the language of the Arabs of that time, which was the same language of the Quran. That language as the hadeeths can attest to was still in use up until the recording of the Hadeeth as a native spoken language (the hadeeths use the same language). It then took its place as only a written language that was taught in educational institutions and was preserved through writing (becoming the language of education, religion, philosophy and science, but it continued to evolve on the streets and change as the Arabs conquered new peoples and those people began to try to learn to speak the language of the conquerers, and also as Arabs began to trade and interact with people who did not speak their language or who had learned to speak broken Arabic (remember non-Arabs were the majority in most of what are now Arabic speaking countries).

So in the end the dictionaries are not hadeeths, they are not rumors nor was their purpose to record rumors or widespread stories. Their point was to put the language of the Old Arab tribes in a written form (that could be taught to non-Arabs and the now Arab community whose native languages are mixtures of Arabic and the languages spoken there before the Arabs took over (or in the case of Saudi Arabia which became a place of migration for many Arabs who had been living in these foreign lands for centuries and other Muslims from all over the Muslim world, not to forget imported non-Arab slave populations (European, Asian and African))) in order to provide a written non-changing reference for the Arabic of the Arabs during the days before the prophet, during the days of the prophet and up atleast until the days of the hadeeth; the same language to be found in the pre-Islamic poems, the Quran and the hadeeths.

So dictionaries are no where near on the same level as hadeeths, their purposes are completely different and one is rumor and one is a recording of how the langauge was used so that non-Arabs and future generations of Arabs could benefit and learn how to understand the Quran, pre-Islamic poems, hadeeths and more. That is the difference and to consider such a thing but to take an Arabic class and learn the meanings of Arabic words in the Quran, or to read any translation of any known translator is to indirectly accept the meanings of these dictionaries but then hypocriticaly say that these are the "words of men" not adequate to use when trying to acquire an understanding of the Classical Arabic Quran.

Godbless,
Anwar

jonny_k

Peace "mkhan"

Words and meanings of Classical Arabic (which were present at the time of revelation of the Quran) have been transmitted exactly in the same way the the traditions and Hadiths of the Holy Prophet. For the

Books of words and meaning of classical arabic ,names are Taj -ul -Aroos ,Lisaan-ul Arab,Qamoos ul Muheet etc.
-Books for the meaning of Islamic terms (prophet's traditions) ,names are "Sahih Bukhari,Sahih Muslim ,Abu-Dawd etc.
Why is it so ? Rejecting one and accepting other .Reason ??
What is the assurance that the meaning and words have been narrated correctly in the dictionaries .These are as unreliable sources as Hadith books are.

JK- Im sorry to say but this claim of yours is garbage for at least two reasons i can think of right now. 1) Hadith besides Quran has shown to be unreliable and inconsitent with the real world and more and more people are noticing the absurdities inside them whilst the Quran seems to make more and more sense 2) Dictionary meanings come about as a result of unbiased a) archeological evidence b) study of people's actual association of physical acts with words or their emotions. It runs without only being biased towards one party. Ofcourse if we take the sunni/shia arabic dictionaries only into account then wed have the same problems understanding the Quran. GOD Bless!

progod

Peace,

There are sunni, shia dictionaries? Never seen any (maybe the glossaries in religious texts might count as that). I know there are religious meanings that the dictionaries (being fair and objective to the Classical Araibc language and its continued use after the Quran) include. These religious meanings (really just interpretations and not meanings) of certain words are opinions of Islamic scholars which came to be used widely in the Islamic world. Such meanings are Islam as submission to God (this is a Shafi' (and hence sunni) meaning of the word,) Zakat as a poor tax is another invented scholarly meaning, Salat as only the ritual Islamic prayer (and not Christian, Animists or Jewish ritual prayers), and dua as any prayer not ritually done like Islamic salaat are also other religious interpretations. What is wrong is when we read these religious interpretations (which are scholarly opinions and not meanings) into the Quran. When we look at a dictionary, despites the few meanings like these which are really religious interpretations, we see what the word really means and these interpretations are ususally classified within the dictionary as being Islamic law or philosophical jargon and those who coined them are often quoted as well as their opinions using these words.

Godbless,
Anwar