Wifes rights conserning divorse
-
Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder. Do you think any rational person is well advised by someone who proposes murder, I think not. The fact that your mind jumped to proposing murder demonstrates you are ill equipped to debate rationally, and do not deserve a response. Worse still you propose interfering in another mans marriage for which Allah has prescribed death.
Your post is a complete mess. Ill try and disentangle some of the mess to see if there is a reasonable question.
Your claim that this is my stance is false. This is Allahs stance as stated by Allah in the Quran. The Quran does not say so, Allah says so. Do not make ascribe the verses of the Quran to me. Do not make false claims that the Quran speaks for the Quran. You have been given the word of Allah, only a shaitan would dispute.
I am not an associate of Allah. Allah protect me from the shaitan. I will not even dare to give you the reasons why Allah makes the laws. My job as a Muslim is to obey, and I will obey, I have submitted long ago to his will.
You are correct that Allah does everything for a good reason, however you are incorrect that he does not want us to be ignorant of the reason. Allah does keep us ignorant of the reasons many many times. You are incorrect that this is "a dreadful disadvantage" to use your inflammatory rhetoric. You are claiming that Allah is committing evil by such a "dreadful disadvantage" Allah advises us that he does only good, and man does evil. I quite clearly see the evil in your propositions of murder and your propositions that Allah has somehow done evil.
Allah is justice, knowing, wise.
-
Peace,
Exceeding the limits earns destruction.
Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder.
Who is exposing violent nature ?
Sorry el araf, but in my eyes you chose the easy way you take what you think you understand as the 100% truth and the rest is shaitan - are you muslim or manichean ?
elke
-
Salaam Al-Araf
Thank you for your reply.
The verses speak of general financial obligations, whether be it during marriage or after divorce. "Itha tallaqtumul nisaa' if/when you divorce women" does not indicate that the husband has the permission to divorce by his will. If I say "he got his house back", this does not mean he took it by his own authority, but would mean by the authority of a judge and a long procedure.
A husband can not divorce his wife by his own will, but he has to go to a court. It's good you mention the principle of "huduud", because we have two "huduud" on reasons to go for a divorce, and in both cases, a judge, at least, has to rule for that, with either testimony from whoever wants to divorce or after arbitration. Men and women have equal rights in this. Verses 4 34, 4128 state the lowest hadd arrogant behaviour; and verse 247 the upper hudd adultry. If a husband cannot shoot his wife or shout at her (you're divorced), when seeing her with another man I do not know when he can. Unfortunately, what we see is some husbands divorcing their wives for a reason less than the lower limit, and all this because of the undertsanding that the man has the sole right to divorce his wife. This is supported by the so called Islamic law
In fact, a woman has a further right not given to the husband, to divorce, and that's when she has no reason or no proof. In this case, she may pay him compensation and leave the marriage 2229.
-
Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder. Do you think any rational person is well advised by someone who proposes murder, I think not. The fact that your mind jumped to proposing murder demonstrates you are ill equipped to debate rationally, and do not deserve a response. Worse still you propose interfering in another mans marriage for which Allah has prescribed death.
Your post is a complete mess. Ill try and disentangle some of the mess to see if there is a reasonable question.
Your claim that this is my stance is false. This is Allahs stance as stated by Allah in the Quran. The Quran does not say so, Allah says so. Do not make ascribe the verses of the Quran to me. Do not make false claims that the Quran speaks for the Quran. You have been given the word of Allah, only a shaitan would dispute.
I am not an associate of Allah. Allah protect me from the shaitan. I will not even dare to give you the reasons why Allah makes the laws. My job as a Muslim is to obey, and I will obey, I have submitted long ago to his will.
You are correct that Allah does everything for a good reason, however you are incorrect that he does not want us to be ignorant of the reason. Allah does keep us ignorant of the reasons many many times. You are incorrect that this is "a dreadful disadvantage" to use your inflammatory rhetoric. You are claiming that Allah is committing evil by such a "dreadful disadvantage" Allah advises us that he does only good, and man does evil. I quite clearly see the evil in your propositions of murder and your propositions that Allah has somehow done evil.
Allah is justice, knowing, wise.
The bottom line of your thoughts on this matter as you state it is that you think that God doesn't want us to know why he does things however shocking they may be and that you are also unable to think of any reason why according to you would dispose such things. Or do you in fact see any reason or sound purpose in it? I suppose that even if we are to assume that God doesn't give a reason, we are free and even welcome to think of it, aren't we? So, please, give such a reason or reasons or purposes if you cand think of any, but please keep to the point.
-
There is no commandment in the Quran to use ijtihad. Therefore ijtihad is not prescribed by Allah.
This depends on what you understand by "ijtihad". Ijtihad is not an isolated action, but the product of thinking, reasoning and contemplating, which has been commanded by God in many verses. Otherwise, why would we think or contemplate if everything is black and white?
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 1736
-
Salam Elke, Huruf, and Samia. I began my response earlier as a reply to Haneen, who is clearly a believer who is looking for what Allah hukum/command is for her in the matter of divorce/talaq.
As a result of my posting what Allah's hukum/command on the on talaq/divorce, I received queries as to the source verses, ijtihad, and Allahs reasons. I provided the source verses, with the exact language I had described, I demonstrated where ijtihad is prohibited invention, and why nobody should fail to submit to Allahs will on the basis that they personally dont see Allah's reason.
Instead of acknowledging that my post for Haneen is grounded in strict Quran language, with no addition or subtraction to the word of Allah, I see three people in whose hearts is not submission to Allahs word when recited to them, I see attempts to change the words of Allah. May allah protect me from the shaitan.
Allah commands me not to engage in dispute, and commands me to say to you, may Allah be the judge between us wherein we differ. Allah is knowing wise, I am a submitter to the Lord of the worlds.
-
Some extracts from http//shams.za.org/Dialogueulama.htm
....
"You assert that unilateral divorce has basis in the Qur?an and therefore cannot be reformed. You support your position with extracts from the Qur?an, and ask me to retract my statement within five days of receiving your fax or you will publish a ?public rebuttal?. You also say that my ?gross misrepresentation brings Islam and Muslims into disrepute?......
We would at the very outset like to say that we disagree with your promotion of unilateral and extra-judicial divorce. We are terribly disappointed that you pick out a few extracts from the Qur?an and on that basis decide on an issue and consider it to be the only possible conclusion. On reading only the verses about divorce in the Qur?an, many Muslim scholars arrive at conclusions different from yours. On reading the message of the Qur?an in its entirety we are left in no doubt that arbitrary divorce on the part of the husband conflicts with the spirit of shura, decency, dignity and justice.
We must recall that the Qur?an 1400 years ago challenged inhumane and unjust practices; in this challenge to unjust practices the Qur?an demonstrates that all systems (including your MPL) require muhasabah (evaluation) and adjustment periodically in order to continually reflect the principles of social justice and human equality.
Please allow me to explain our position We challenge the inhumane and unjust practices prevalent in MPL. We believe much of the practice needs to be reformed to bring it on par with the Islamic principles of justice, equality and freedom. We must go back to the Qur?an and formulate an MPL that is just. The problem, it seems, is that you are trying to implement an MPL code that was developed in the ninth century. The context was different and the assumptions on which the laws were based are very different. We were never meant to impose those laws on our context, rather, we are meant to apply the eternal, universal and Divine Qur?an to our context.
The practice of unilateral and extra-judicial divorce in our context goes against the grain of shura and decency. I will quote the translation of just two verses you omitted. (I have for your information included the translation of most of the verses on divorce in the Qur?an.) Please take note that we believe the Qur?an should apply in its entirety and that it is a gross misrepresentation to select extracts and on your interpretation of these, support your position.
And so, when they are about to reach the end of their waiting term, either retain them in a fair manner or part with them in a fair manner. And let two persons of (known) probity from among your community (i.e. persons who are acquainted with the circumstances of the case) witness; and do yourselves bear witness before God (that the decision has not been made in a frivolous manner); thus are admonished all who believe in God and the Last Day? (Qur?an 652)
And if you have reason to fear that a breach might occur between a (married) couple, appoint an arbitrator from among his people and an arbitrator from among her people; if they both want to set things aright, God may bring about their reconciliation? (Qur?an 435)
I would like to stress the Qur?anic message part with them in a fair manner; two witnesses, you yourself bear witness before God; appointment of arbitrators from both sides, setting things right if both want to. All this makes nonsense of the arbitrary divorce process prevalent and sanctioned by you, dear ?ulama.
One should be aware of the warning of the Qur?an ?Do you believe in part of the Book and reject another part?? The Muslim community is at liberty to ?listen to the statement and follow the better part of it,? (Qur?an 391.
Moreover, marriage ? we all agree ? is a contract between two people and therefore a legally binding agreement. If any one partner wants out there must be a proper process. I do not believe that any of you would allow your business partner to opt out of a contract between you without consulting you or going through some legal
''process. Isn?t there more reason for a proper process for dissolution of a marriage contract.""
-
Salam Aleikum!
I have a guestionWhat Koran say about wifes right to divorse.If husband dont want to divorse,wife can get divorsed by court,but I think husband and wife must have agreement about it or not.I this case if marriage contract is made in mosque.I understand that huband must let wife divorsed, if she wish so. So, is it right thing in Koran to get divorsed by court?Peace,
Respectfully.Read Quran, chapter 2 verses 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 240, 241.
Chapter 4 verse 35.
3349.
6010.
652, 4, 5, 6, 7.Peace.
-
Answer to Hawk,
Repeating something over and over doesn't improve it. You keep repeating the same thing over and over when your assertions have already been answered. Obviously the only thing that interests you in the Quran is to say how wrong nad contradictory it is and any other compliment that comes to your mind. Apart from no saying anything new, you repeat yourself. We already know what you think, we can read the Quran ourselves and also the Bible. Should be enough, although if it is a compulsion I can understand it. It is human to have compulsions.
And should be enough politeness that although if we were looking for things to criticise in the Bible you would drown in them, we do not do it, and that you keep harping at imaginary shortcomings of the Quran and still we do not do it. I think you should not give yourself so much trouble with the Quran, because by what you say I deduce that you are Quran blind. God willing you may be able to see in the future.
Again, according to the very same Bible, the Bible is not the word of God. At most it may contain a few quotations of the words of God.
Salaam
I am wondering which one of you edited out my scripture verses with the little face which refers to "cool"? Are you trying to hide the verses? Are you afraid to see the truths? Since you say I am Koran blind and yet you have in the past admitted that the Torah, the book of Psalms and the Gospel are inspired by Jehovah and in over 64 places the Koran itself says this. I was wondering what you all thought of this scripture The Book of John, Chapter 6, Verse 38 and please do not edit out the verse or chapter or book for that matter as you did on the other scriptures. You edited out the verse number for Matthew chapter 19 verse 8? Why? Do you have something to hide and on 1st John Chapter 4 verse 8 twice you edited out the verse? You do not want everyone to know that God is Love? I mean think about it. He gave his only begotten son, Jesus Christ to buy all of mankind out of the Sin that Adam bought us into when he disobeyed Jehovah in his act of rebellion in the Garden of Eden.
I know you guys like to say Jesus was a prophet and that is all, but in the Gospel you are told in the Koran to follow, in the book of John which is part of your Gospel in Chapter 6 verse 38, what does your version of that verse say in what you call the proper translation? Does it say that Jesus was just a prophet? Or does it say that he came down out of heaven? And why did he come down out of heaven? To do Jehovah Gods will. In fact this scripture alone shows he had a pre-existing life before Jehovah God seeded him into a woman and he took on the human form in the womb of Mary, his mother. You say you study the bible also? Then explain to me how just a prophet could have a pre-existing life before he became such a prophet if he was only a prophet? I never heard of any other prophet given such a glory? Just ponder on that for a little bit because my bible says at that verse where John quoted Jesus in John 638 "because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will but the will of him that sent me....." (End of Quote.) Which would be his father, Jehovah. In fact he says it was his fathers will in verse 40 so that everyone exercising faith in him can be resurrected and have everlasting life. I take it you people do not want to be resurrected in the last day into the promised paradise earth? I guess everlasting life is not a goal for you people because to minimize the Son of Jehovah God is the same as the Jews did. That is what your book you want to follow and have your ears tickled with does. Yet the Koran contradicts itself and it says to follow the Gospel but it then minimizes Jesus Christ to just a prophet. I never read anywhere about Muhammad performing any miracles as Jesus Christ did? Much less as Jesus 12 Apostles did later for that matter? In fact in all of supposed Christendom our whole Calendar ends and begins new on the year of Jesus birth.
I do not mean to disrespect you. But I am always testing out my faith. Bring on your contradictions you want to show me. I will study and test my faith and try to help you to understand those misinformation's that I am sure I have already seen from bible theologists who mis read the scriptures and like to twist it here and there. In fact I already have done a comparison on one of your area on this place in my own research.
I know we are not suppose to compare supposedly religions and faiths. But you people are following a book that tells you to go out and kill people. What does it call us? Infidels? Jehovah tells us in the 10 Commandments not to kill or commit murder. His Son Jesus Christ tells us to go even further than that and to love our enemies not kill them. I am sorry if I sound like it is disrespect. I am not a very strong Jehovah's Witness and I am not very polished as many are. I am very blunt to say the least. I apologize if I offend you in this but I am only telling you what I have learned so far. I am sure I will learn even more as you people make me have to research more to answer your questions and statements and so forth and I love learning more about Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ.
Again as for the Marriage you even quoted that what Allah, (which is only a title and not Jehovah's name and means God), says let no man tear asunder I believe you said in your quote talking about the marriage arrangement. In other words no man can tear apart what God yoked together. Not any arbitrators or the husband himself or the wife herself. You made a life long commitment and now things are not perfect in that marriage so one of the partners wants to break that contract. Moses allowed it to be broken only if Adultery is the reason or death severs the marriage bonds and that is the only reasons allowed in the Scriptures. You are to work it out between yourselves and in fact if you do not get peace back into your marriage it can hinder your prayers or offerings to Jehovah God. Man likes to break gods rules and laws and ways. So you allow Mohammad to over rule Jehovah God with his Koran and Islamic laws written by your holy people. What makes that any different than how the Pope does? They think the Pope can over ride Jehovah God in the Roman Catholic religion. No man can over ride Jehovah God and his inspired books of the bible. To even question Jehovah's authority is apostasy. As for the bible over how many centuries it still says basically the same thing in all the bibles. There are a few translation discrepancies but the main principals are the same. Jehovah God has more than enough power and authority to protect the main essence of the bible and what man does change will be revealed and has been and is still being revealed. The Jews did the same thing in Jesus Time period. They replaced Jehovah God's name with a title so they would not have to do their man made ceremony when they where hand copying the bible every time they came across the name Jehovah. So they just removed it. Now days they are removing it because it points to one group of people that all religions on earth are afraid to have anything to point to. Jehovah's Earthly witnesses as you know as Jehovah's Witnesses. I read how some criticize Jehovah's Witnesses on this site. My question is if you do not compare belief to what Jehovah's Inspired word is in the bible then how else are you ever going to find the truth. You claim to be descendants of Abraham then you need to follow the scriptures as his son Jesus Christ who came down from heaven tells you to do. So aside from Christendoms Apostate literature and lies lets see what you call contradictions in the bible? I know you and the Jews are at ends but you both contradict the scriptures and Jehovah God's son in that both you are in agreement in denying Jesus Christ as Jehovah God's Son. Yet the Koran says to follow the Gospel and live by it? The Koran itself contradicts itself and the Torah, the book of Psalms and the Gospel. From what I last read you guys are trying to use some other books now as the gospel and so forth. Is that correct or some mad mans ramblings?
All I know is the time is short and this wicked world of mankind is going to be cleaned of all the wicked very soon and all that will be left over is those doing the will of Jesus Father. It will not be man that cleanses mankind. It is going to be Jehovah God's heavenly armies lead by his heavenly son Jesus who will cry out with the voice of a arc angel which was also known as Micheal the arc angel. There is only one arc angel in heaven. All the signs of Jesus presence is already here. He is already in power in Heaven and ready for Jehovah God to tell him when to attack as only Jehovah knows the day and the hour of wicked mankind's destruction, not even Jesus knows that time.
I just want to help you to see that you need to align yourselves to the truth and not a lie before it is too late. So far in all my searching and all my years I have come to know that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones who have the most vast world wide messenger service to warn everyone and no one else compares and when they have preached to all the inhabited earth then the end is coming for all the wicked on this planet and that is anyone on the fence Satan built and not following Jehovah's commandments and his will which is to warn others the same as we where warned and to teach them the truths in the bible. Time is short and for the guy with the wife issue, he and she needs to get over it and make up and get busy saving themselves and everyone else they can from that great day of Jehovah God's mighty vengeance on wicked mankind. This is no joke! This is your life and you want to criticize me because of my showing you what I learned bring it on. As I said I am willing to see your contradictions as you say in my bible. I use the New World Translation. Show me the contradictions so I can test out my faith!
Sincerely,
Joe Hawkins