Wifes rights conserning divorse
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Salam Aleikum!
I have a guestionWhat Koran say about wifes right to divorse.If husband dont want to divorse,wife can get divorsed by court,but I think husband and wife must have agreement about it or not.I this case if marriage contract is made in mosque.I understand that huband must let wife divorsed, if she wish so. So, is it right thing in Koran to get divorsed by court? -
Salam Aleikum!
I have a guestionWhat Koran say about wifes right to divorce. If husband don't want to divorce, wife can get divorced by court, but I think husband and wife must have agreement about it or not. I this case if marriage contract is made in mosque. I understand that husband must let wife divorced, if she wish so. So, is it right thing in Koran to get divorced by court?In the world of Islam, the Bible consists of the books known as the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel. At least 64 verses of the Koran speak of these books as the Word of God and emphasize the need to read them and to carry out their commands. Some assert that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel have been changed. However, to say this is to ignore the words of the Koran and to say that God cannot preserve his Word. The New World Translation is very accurate. In any bible divorce is only permitted for one reason in the Gospel.
Jesus Christ, in his Sermon on the Mount, stated ?Moreover it was said, ?Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.? However, I say to you that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.? (Mt 531, 32)
This is vis-a-versa. A woman can not just up and divorce a husband except on these grounds. Being that this is from the Gospel and the Koran tells you to obey these commandments in the Gospel as well then you and your wife are honor bound to obey this. Work out your differences. You in the gospel are commanded to continue loving your wife and she is commanded to show you honor and respect and to be in subjection to your headship. That does not mean you get to be a tyrant and demand her to do everything. You are also told to love her as you would your own body. You are to provide for her physically and spiritually. You want to see the scriptures that back this up, let me know. I am in a rush right now is all.
Also, after telling the Pharisees that the Mosaic concession of divorcing their wives was not the arrangement that had prevailed ?from the beginning,? Jesus said ?I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.? (Mt 198, 9)
This makes it much more direct. Also as in the Mosaic law you are not to remarry once you are divorced. So If it is at all possible the wife needs to rethink this. You both need to gently work this out and if that is not enough you need proper spiritual councilmen to deal with this matter. If you spiritual counselor tells you to divorce and there is not these grounds then you need to look elsewhere for proper spiritual council. Even Islam is suppose to follow the Gospel.
Hope this helps some with both of you?
Sincerely,
Hawk -
If only all Christians stopped being hypocrites and followed the Bible word for word like this guy. LOL
agreed. God Willing all the believers unite, just as the Quran wants it
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengers "We do not differentiate between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny."
3199 And from the people of the Scripture are those who believe in God and what was sent down to you and what was sent down to them; fearful to God, they do not purchase with God's revelations a cheap price. These will have their reward with their Lord. God is quick in reckoning.
4162 But those of them who are firm in knowledge, as well as the believers, they believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you; and those who uphold the communion, and those who contribute towards betterment, and those who believe in God and the Last Day; to these We will give them their reward greatly.
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jews, as well as the Rabbis, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of God's Scripture, and they were witness over. So do not fear the people but fear Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
582 You will find the people with the greatest animosity towards those who believe are the Jews and those who have set up partners; and you will find the closest in affection to those who believe are those who said "We are Nazarenes;" that is because amongst them are Priests and Monks, and they are not arrogant.
All believers should be close in affection bravo
Al
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Sorry, if my question wasnt clear.I think we moslems must focus to Koran not so much Bible,because Koran is superior than Bible.In this case,husband is sunni and wife follow Koran only,and they are married in register office and in sunni mosque.Wife want to divorse ,but husband dont accept this.Question isis it permissible for wife to get divorsed by court,because by court is possible without husbands agreement?
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Peace Haneen,
then if you fear that they cannot keep within the limits of Allah, THERE IS NO BLAME ON THEM FOR WHAT SHE GIVES UP TO BECOME FREE THEREBY. These are the limits of Allah, so do not exceed them and whoever exceeds the limits of Allah these it is that are the unjust.2229.
Dissolution of Marriage (Pakistan)
A Muslim Marriage is a contract and can be dissolved like any other contract. It is automatically dissolved on the death of one of the spouses. Other than this, both wife and husband have legal and religious rights to dissolve a marriage. A husband has the unilateral right of talaq, which can never be taken away but can be restricted through the nikahnama (clause 19). A wife can dissolve her marriage unilaterally only if the right of divorce has been unconditionally delegated to her by the husband in the nikahnama (clause1.
Other forms of dissolution of marriage which the wife can use are khula and judicial divorce (including option of puberty). These both have to be sought through the Family Courts.A woman has an equal right to divorce. The only difference is that in such a situation she will demand a divorce from her husband. If the husband refuses, she has all the right to take the matter to the court. The matter will then be decided by the ruling of the court.
Judicial Divorce / Khula
Dissolution of Muslim Marriages Act 1939
Judicial khula may also be granted without husband's consent if wife is willing to forgo her financial rights.Grounds for Judicial Divorce
Grounds on which a woman may seek khula include
?Desertion by husband for four years,
?Failure to maintain for two years
?Husband contracting a polygamous marriage in contravention of established legal procedures,
?Husband's imprisonment for seven years,
?Husband's failure to perform marital obligations for three years,
?Husband's continued impotence from the time of the marriage,
?Husband's insanity for two years or his serious illness,
?Wife's exercise of her option of puberty if she was contracted into marriage by any guardian before age of 16 and repudiates the marriage before the age of 18 (as long as the marriage was not consummated),
?Husband's cruelty (including physical or other mistreatment, unequal treatment of co-wives), and
Any other ground recognized as valid for the dissolution of marriage under Muslim law.In practice in most of the Muslim world today divorce can be quite involved as there may be separate secular procedures to follow as well. Usually, assuming her husband demands a divorce, the divorced wife keeps her mahr, both the original gift and any supplementary property specified in the marriage contract. She is also given child support until the age of weaning, at which point the child's custody will be settled by the couple or by the courts.
Women's right to divorce is often extremely limited compared with that of men in Middle East. While men can divorce their spouses easily, women face a lot of legal and financial obstacles. For example, in Yemen, women usually can ask for divorce only when husband's inability to support her life is admitted while men can divorce at will. However, this contentious area of religious practice and tradition is being increasingly challenged by those promoting more liberal interpretations of Islam.
In Egypt, men enjoy the benefit of law in divorce. If a woman leaves her husband without his consent, she might be filed charges under Egypt's "obedience laws," and would lose alimony upon divorce. While men are not required to convince in a judicial court for divorce, women must resort to legal action, and are required to abandon all rights to the couple's finances and to repay their dowries.
In Lebanon, women who suffered from domestic violence must provide testimony of an eyewitness, in addition to a medical certificate from a doctor documenting physical abuse to sue divorce. This is conducted in Egypt too.
In Syria, article 91 of the personal status code grants men right to divorce without providing any specific reason, and men only notify the divorce to the government. On the other side, women usually can initiate discussion about divorce only when their husband's inability to support them is admitted. To receive alimony, a woman needs to prove inability to live on her own. When women seek to divorce, she must file charge and provide specified legitimate reason. Although consensual divorce and khol are also available, in this case women must repay him the dower.
In Saudi Arabia, women must prove the ability to pay compensation as well as their spouse's violence, and will face the difficulty convincing an all-male judiciary. Besides, in most cases, custody of children tends to be given to men.
peace
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Divorce.
Are you doing it for the right reasons?
Modern law applies, but ofcourse, the higher morality, and religious truth of Judgement Day, is what should motivate you. -
If only all Christians stopped being hypocrites and followed the Bible word for word like this guy. LOL
There are millions of Jehovah's Witnesses following the bible world wide as they are suppose to. To the best of their ability that is. It does not mean they are perfect, that is why we have prayer and wiser older ones to go to. We sin daily no matter how we try to live by the bible. We have to pray for forgiveness incessantly also.
Personally I never found myself to be a real spiritually strong person. But I do try still.
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Peace all,
The ten commandments given to Moses is enough to follow for being a righteous fellow brother and sister in a society.
Even if these commandments are so old it still is the pure essence of how to behave to be fair in deals with daily live.
sis Maria
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salaam all
How about the following news.Islamic divorce ruled not valid in Maryland
- Court says pronouncement of divorce by Muslim husband deprives wife of ?due process?
- Jurist says no enforceability of talaq in US
Daily Times Monitor
LAHORE The Maryland Court of Appeals has declared that the pronouncement of divorce by a Muslim husband under Shariah law is contrary to Maryland?s constitutional provisions of providing equal rights to men and women, the Washington Post reported on Thursday.
The court stated in a unanimous 21-page opinion on Tuesday, ?Talaq (the pronouncement of divorce) lacks any significant ?due process? for the wife, its use, moreover, directly deprives the wife of the ?due process? she is entitled to when she initiates divorce litigation in this state. The lack and deprivation of due process is itself contrary to this state?s public policy.?
The decision affirms a 2007 ruling by the Court of Special Appeals, the state?s intermediate appellate court, which also said that talaq does not apply in the Free State.
Under Islamic traditions, talaq can be invoked only by a husband, unless he grants his wife the same right. The court gave its opinion while hearing a divorce case of a couple with a Pakistani origin, according to the paper.
In the Court of Appeals? opinion, Irfan Aleem, who has worked for years as an economist with the World Bank, had assets worth about $2 million, half of which his wife Farah Aleem is entitled to under Maryland law.
When Irfan tried to divorce Farah through talaq, a sum of $2,500 was proposed as a ?full and final? divorce settlement, according to the appellate decision.
That amount was written into a marriage contract Farah signed at the day she married Aleem in Pakistan in 1980, according to the appellate decision. The contract was in accordance with Pakistani custom. The couple moved to Washington in 1985.
?I don?t even know how to express how happy I am. I am ecstatic, relieved,? the newspaper quoted Farah Aleem, 46, as saying.
?All I ever wanted was my fair share, not a penny more,? she said.
At the direction of the judge who presided over the divorce proceedings, the couple?s Potomac home was to be sold and half the proceeds ? about $200,000 ? was to go to Farah, said Susan Friedman, her attorney.y.
Friedman alleges Aleem, who recently retired, invoked talaq to avoid paying Farah half of his World Bank pension, which provides him with $90,000 annually, the attorney said, adding that the World Bank would have to pay Farah half her ex-husband?s pension.
No enforceability Julie Macfarlane, a jurist who is researching a book about Islamic divorces in North America, said the decision was not surprising because there was no legal enforceability for talaq in US courts.
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Sorry, it has been a while since I got back to you. I want to lay this monkey to rest. As I brought out and someone else showed that the Torah, Psalms, Gospel are all from God then you can not deny his words correct?
Also Allah is the God of Abraham which some of this very website say is Jehovah in showing how the Trinity is not even a true Christian belief, correct?
So basically the Bible is Gods Word even according to he Koran. I am sure you rather follow the Koran from reading this site on divorcing.
What it really comes down to is Jehovah God's View of Divorcing when that day of Judgment is upon us, Correct?
This is what God's Word, the Bible says
(Genesis 224) ?That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.?
(Malachi 215-16) ?And there was one who did not do , as he had what was remaining of spirit. And what was that one seeking? The seed of God. And YOU people must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and with the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously. 16 For he has hated a divorcing,? Jehovah the God of Israel has said; ?and the one who with violence has covered over his garment,? Jehovah of armies has said. ?And YOU must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and YOU must not deal treacherously.?
(Matthew 532) ?However, I say to YOU that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.?
(Matthew 19 ?He said to them ?Moses, out of regard for YOUR hardheartedness, made the concession to YOU of divorcing YOUR wives, but such has not been the case from beginning.?
(Mark 109) ?Therefore what God yoked together let no man put apart.??
On that very last scripture at Mark 109 that also means no woman. These scriptures are for both men and women to follow. What it boils down to is that if the woman or man commit adultery then out of the hard hardheartedness of the offended mate they are allowed to divorce. But literally no man or woman is to take apart those given in marriage. THat included the marriage couple themselves as they are a man or woman. They sure are not Jehovah God so they can not divorce once they marry. They may separate on mutual consent only to re-establish their spiritual relationship with Jehovah God or as you call him, Allah which means God and is only a title.
The point is Jehovah God or Allah will curse those who get rid of their mate using legal loop holes.
(Deuteronomy 1017-1 ?For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear-inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe, 18 executing judgment for the fatherless boy and the widow and loving the alien resident so as to give him bread and a mantle.?
(Deuteronomy 2719) ???Cursed is the one who perverts the judgment of an alien resident, a fatherless boy and a widow.? (And all the people must say, ?Amen!?)?
I want to point out also from what I read here that you have some married to more than one wife? In the ancient times that was permitted but that was only to populate the earth. You now are suppose to listen to the Gospel also and live by it and it clearly shows that a man or woman is only suppose to have one mate. In fact I quoted Genesis above where it says they get married and become one, not 20 or 3 or any other number but 1 flesh. A woman is made to be a compliment and helper to the man. Not to be a sex slave or position. But the Gospel says
(1 Timothy 31-7) ?That statement is faithful. If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work. 2 The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3 not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not belligerent, not a lover of money, 4 a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; 5 (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God?s congregation?) 6 not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up and fall into the judgment passed upon the Devil. 7 Moreover, he should also have a fine testimony from people on the outside, in order that he might not fall into reproach and a snare of the Devil.?
You notice it says "a husband of one wife"?
If any of you have more than one wife you need to realize that according to the Gospel which you are suppose to be viewing as from God above or Jehovah God that you are not suppose to have more than one wife.
So the questions you need to really ask yourself and your wife needs to ask herself also since she goes by the Koran and it tells her to also go by the Torah and Gospel where to you want to be when Judgment day comes upon you. Do you want to be Jehovah God's Enemy or do you want to do as he asks of us?
(Malachi 216) For he has hated a divorcing,? Jehovah the God of Israel has said; ?and the one who with violence has covered over his garment,? Jehovah of armies has said. ?And YOU must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and YOU must not deal treacherously.?
(Romans 129) ?Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good.?
So I think this small example and I am sure there are more examples I could find for you to relate to here but The scriptures are clear on this matter. One thing that bothers me here though, if the Koran which says that the scripture or Bible basically is from God above, why doe is allow for divorcing in the manner I am reading here or is this all from men adding to the Koran? Because if the Koran was from God above there would be no contradiction between it and the Bible at all. So is their a Contradiction just from what I have shown you here?
Also you need to show this to your wife. You also need to explain the circumstances as to why your wife is even asking for a divorce? Did you commit adultery? Did you beat her? Did you neglect her? You want advise here you need to get into the details so you may get better advise. You do the right things to correct the situation and it can be worked out but you stay stubborn and high and mighty you will lose her no matter what you do because women work by emotions and they judge matters by feelings and not so much logic. If you sinned initially then you need to be repentant and have to show that repentance to your wife. Whatever that sin be you as the head of the household scripturally speaking need to to whatever it is you can to appease your wife's anger and maybe you will win her back. But if you are demanding and telling her you are in control and she has no say in the matter she will walk no matter what you promise her. You need to castrate yourself figuratively speaking and be her slave basically in order to keep her. You need to make changes that are permanent to get her back, not changes only for the moment. You do not need to threaten her or any other cruelty that will only chase her away further. In the likely hood she was the one who committed adultery which I am not getting here as the case but just in case it is that way and you still want her as your wife, you need forgive her humbly not proudly. You need to realize that it was your fault she committed that adultery because she would not have done so had you been attentive to her emotional needs.
(Hosea 11-2) ?. . .. 2 There was a start of the word of Jehovah by Ho?sea, and Jehovah proceeded to say to Ho?sea ?Go, take to yourself a wife of fornication and children of fornication, because by fornication the land positively turns from following Jehovah.??
So Hosea was to marry a woman of Fornication. Or Adultery in her case. This goes two way. You could be the one who committed adultery or she could be? At any rate it goes on to say
(Hosea 13-6) ?And he proceeded to go and take Gomer the daughter of Dib?laim, so that she became pregnant and in time bore to him a son. 4 And Jehovah went on to say to him ?Call his name Jezre?el, for yet a little while and I must hold an accounting for the acts of bloodshed of Jezre?el against the house of Jehu, and I must cause the royal rule of the house of Israel to cease. 5 And it must occur in that day that I must break the bow of Israel in the low plain of Jezre?el.? 6 And she proceeded to become pregnant another time and to give birth to a daughter. And He went on to say to him ?Call her name Lo-ru?hamah, for I shall no more show mercy again to the house of Israel, because I shall positively take them away.?
(Hosea 31-2) ?And Jehovah went on to say to me ?Go once again, love a woman loved by a companion and committing adultery, as in the case of Jehovah?s love for the sons of Israel while they are turning to other gods and are loving raisin cakes.? 2 And I proceeded to purchase her for myself for fifteen silver and a homer measure of barley and a half-homer of barley.?
So Jehovah was having Hosea marry a adulterous woman and continuing with her even though she committed adultery because it represented Israel in Jehovah's Eyes. So forgiveness is what Jehovah Showed and that is what we are suppose to show by example from Jehovah and his prophet. But again we are imperfect and I know that I am not as strong as Jehovah. I may not be able to show mercy also concerning if my own wife was to do me that way. But if you feel you are a strong man then more power to you. If not well again
(Matthew 199) ?I say to YOU that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.??
(Matthew 532) ?However, I say to YOU that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.?
The Scriptures say it plainly though Fornication is any unnatural sexual act. Adultery is fornication.
In the scriptures when a man and woman marry before Jehovah God they become a threefold cord. Jehovah is the strongest cord that keeps them bound together when one or the other becomes weak. When one person commits adultery they have broken away from that threefold cord. They have become part of another cord with that other person they committed adultery with.
That is why Fornication or Adultery which is one of many forms of fornication is grounds for divorce. The Adulterer left the innocent marriage mate and Jehovah Behind when they committed adultery. Now as you seen Jehovah was able to forgive the Nation of Israel on many occasions for committing adultery against him but are you as strong as Jehovah or as merciful and forgiving as Jehovah is? Because when you forgive your mate and start over again with them you have to forgive and forget what they did to you and I know personally that would be very hard for me to do. Each person is more patient and loving and forgiving than the next. So if you committed the adultery your wife will have to forgive you or she can scripturally divorce you also. It is her choice and visa versa if she committed the adultery. Other than that no man or woman is suppose to break that threefold cord. Even the one whom commits that adultery is going against that scripture and will be judged accordingly unless they can see their sin and request forgiveness through the ransom sacrifice of God's only begotten son, Jesus Christ whom everything else came through.
So what it boils down to is does she follow the Koran. If so then she is suppose to follow the scriptures, the Torah, The Psalms, and The Gospel and the prophets which all amounts to the Holy Bible. If she does not follow the Bible which your Koran refers to as the Word of God from Above which would be Jehovah God Psalms 8318 then she is not following the Koran also and the same goes for yourselves. You need to work on that if that is the case and so does everyone else because the day of Judgment is coming upon us real soon just as in the days of Noah and in the days of Lot. Lot barly survived and had very little warning. Noah was warning people for 40 years while he built the ark. They made jokes about him and laughed at him and guess what on the say Noah and his family entered into that ark I know they where not laughing and joking anymore as they pounded on the door of the ark after Jehovah Closed it. This matter is not a joke and a laughable matter as many others are not. You need to get in line with Jehovah's Word, the bible before your lives are taken on the great day of God the Almighty where the real issue of who's right it is to rule all mankind is settled. It will not be nations fighting nations on that day. All the nations will align themselves to fight God the Almighty and his people. So your choice is to be on the nations sides or Jehovah's Side. He is going to destroy all the political elements of this world on that day so in the act of marriage you need to make the right decision and so does your wife and everyone else also needs to. That includes myself. I have to work on imperfections also so do not think I am holier than though. I have my own weaknesses to work on all the time. I may not make it if I can not over come all my own weaknesses also. That is why I constantly pray for forgiveness of my weaknesses. You should get the picture though.
What I have seen about the laws in Islam are a corruption of rights of the woman and man. The man can do anything he wants basically but the woman is not allowed any rights? The scriptures are clear on this matter. If you committed adultery she is free to choose. Anything else is not grounds. But there is also a perversion that is both violent and in some very sexual in nature. That is the beating of a wife. Some men find delight almost like sexual gratification in the brutality of beating a wife and that falls into the category of Fornication if that is the case. If you find pleasure in being cruel to your wife you are committing fornication in that respect. That is also a grounds she could look into if you beat her and find pleasure in it at the time you are doing it. Think about it? Jehovah God is not impartial the bible says and that means the woman has the same rights as the man. She is not the head but in many scriptures she tells the husband what to do and he does it. Even King David listened to his wife when his son was trying to overthrow him and he fled as she told him to do. You have to also let your wife have say in decisions and weigh it all down to make the final decision. If you are stubborn and high minded and think anything she says is of no value then you are sinking your own boat. That is where I see Islam Fails in the treatment of women from what I have read here. She is your compliment and helper. If you did not need a compliment then we would not need the woman. But apparently men are not complete without woman so you need her as much as she needs you and once you become one flesh you can not break it apart by becoming one flesh with someone else and visa-versa. Only Jehovah God can tear it apart and if you are doing his will why would he want too?
That is how it is and I hope this put that monkey to rest for all of you out there. If not then you are tutting your own horn because all that I am saying here is scripturally based for the most part. The beating as fornication is a gray area but if the person doing the beating gets some sort of perverse pleasure from it then it is a form of fornication which is unnatural sex. This is not my words but from the scriptures. I could not come up with this of my own thoughts. The scriptures guided me with this and so it is from Jehovah God in that sense.
Take care and I hope this helps everyone! I want to see all live forever as Psalms 3729 says.
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Are you telling us that Pauls Epistles and other parts of the bible are God's words. Not even the bible says that. The Quran are God's words. The Bible are narrations where only at times God's and Profets words are quoted. If we reject hadith, how on earth are we going to accept the Bible when it suffers from the same defficiencies as hadith? And what is the need of the Quran if all was well with what there was? I am a lover of the gospels to the extent that they come to me in my appreciation as authentic and truthful, but for God's sake, not way every word in the collection called the bible is revealed.
Salaam
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Are you telling us that Pauls Epistles and other parts of the bible are God's words. Not even the bible says that. The Quran are God's words. The Bible are narrations where only at times God's and Profets words are quoted. If we reject hadith, how on earth are we going to accept the Bible when it suffers from the same defficiencies as hadith? And what is the need of the Quran if all was well with what there was? I am a lover of the gospels to the extent that they come to me in my appreciation as authentic and truthful, but for God's sake, not way every word in the collection called the bible is revealed.
Salaam
Salam Huruf,
I agree for the most part, here is my opinion on the matter
The Quran mentions the Torah, The Injeel, The Zubur and the Prophets (though this is debatable as to whether the books referred to as "The Prophets" in the OT are meant or not).
The only part of the New Testament that can be considered (in my opinion) is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
But if one is not reading these books in the original languages one will surely think that there are contradictions.
Also I will say the Words of Paul are Hadith, and filled with non-sense.
Salam,
Arnab -
What I say is that the the bible itsel it is not a recitation word by word given by God. It is different narrations in which some words from God are mentioned, or from angels or from profets. It is not God speaking, I understand that Ingil is not the narration of the life of Jesus, for whatever that narration is worth, but rather it would e those words that were pronnounced by Jesus AS A MESSENGER OF GOD. The rest may be of interest, but it is not the words of God nor direct of His messengers. And I repeat that I love Jesus and the WORDS OF JESUS and that they have taught me a lot and still do and are eminently coherent with the truthful Quran and they throw light on each other. But let us keep some standars and some clarity as to what we consider revelation and what we don't. I think that the standard set by the Quran should not be disregarded. And the Bible is not a book, but an heterogenous collection of very different books, just like the books of hadith, but older and through more translations, copies and versions. If we come to that, there are ahadith also that are sublime and beautiful and full of wisdon and light, so we exert our judgement and profit from their teachings, but that is not a certificate for ahadith, it cannot be. We would be back to square one.
Let me also add,that within christain literature there are also writings inmensely spiritual and with great teachings. They are not revelation, but they are good and source of enlightment. We should or could be ready to see all that is good for us without prejudice, and I, personally, am not prejudiced in favour of the Bible and do not consider it on the same level as the Quran for the reasons I have stated.
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Salam,
Allah is not unjust to anyone. Marriage is a pledge taken by both parties. It's a contract between two sane people to live togather as life partners and raise togather future generation as a family to contribute to a healthy social makeover and who agree to it without any force. That's a reason for public anouncement and witnesses. A divorce is a way to end this contract and to break free from his relation that is formed because of that contract.. and same way needs public anouncement and witnesses. The Quran describes clear cut detailed way for getting divorce and it's same for BOTH men and women. Both have to go to a court or an artbitrator who's to be appointed by Allah's law in Quran to get every divorce. The concept of pronouncing divorces whenever a man wishes is totally un Islamic and non Quranic way.
Thats all to it.wasalam
another free mind
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Salam Aleikum!
I have a guestionWhat Koran say about wifes right to divorse.If husband don't want to divorce,wife can get divorced by court,but I think husband and wife must have agreement about it or not.I this case if marriage contract is made in mosque.I understand that husband must let wife divorced, if she wish so. So, is it right thing in Koran to get divorced by court?So let me get this right? Your Koran says that the Torah, the Book of Psalms and the Gospel are from Jehovah God? Muslims believe in the Law of Moses again even though Jesus put the law of Moses to death on the torture stake, not cross? 7 Centuries later Muhammad comes up with the Koran that has many contradictions in itself yet refers to him fulfilling scriptures Jesus already fulfilled and also calls basically the bible the word of God and you actually do not believe the scriptures I showed you here? If Muslims are suppose to go by the law of Moses then why are you trusting a book such as this Koran that is so disorderly over even the Hebrew Scriptures. The only grounds for divorce period in Jehovah God's eyes is what counts. He does not change his morality over time. Then if that was the case he would be a liar himself. He does not change how he views things. Only men make those changes.
(Psalm 3311) ?To time indefinite the very counsel of Jehovah will stand; The thoughts of his heart are to one generation after another generation.?
(Numbers 2319) ?God is not a man that he should tell lies, Neither a son of mankind that he should feel regret. Has he himself said it and will he not do it, And has he spoken and will he not carry it out??
So he councils us not to divorce and in fact he hates divorcing except when the threefold cord was broken in Fornication and he still does not like it.
Well lets make this simpler for you. Here is what is in the Torah going by the law of Moses which for some strange reason Muhammad decided Muslims needed to go back to in producing the obviously disorganized book the Koran? So here is Jehovah Gods Council from way before the Koran was even thought of by anyone. Remember the Koran tells you to go by the Torah also!
(Genesis 224) ?That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.?
It says you must stick to your wife and that goes the other way also. She must stick to you also. Here is what breaks that bound and how the Law of Moses dealt with it
(Leviticus 2010) ?10 ??Now a man who commits adultery with another man?s wife is one who commits adultery with the wife of his fellowman. He should be put to death without fail, the adulterer and the adulteress as well.. . .?
(Exodus 2014) ??You must not commit adultery.?
(Deuteronomy 2222) ??In case a man is found lying down with a woman owned by an owner, both of them must then die together, the man lying down with the woman and the woman. So you must clear away what is bad out of Israel.?
(Deuteronomy 2224) ?YOU must also bring them both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die, the girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city, and the man for the reason that he humiliated the wife of his fellowman. So you must clear away what is evil from your midst.?
Death was the end result in the Law of Moses and the Torah.
Now the Gospel says on this matter
(Matthew 196) ?So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.??
(Matthew 19 ?He said to them ?Moses, out of regard for YOUR hardheartedness, made the concession to YOU of divorcing YOUR wives, but such has not been the case from beginning.?
(Matthew 532) ?However, I say to YOU that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.?
(Mark 109) ?Therefore what God yoked together let no man put apart.??
Again that "no man" also applies to "no woman" and it includes the married couple themselves.
(Hebrews 134) ?Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers.?
(1 Corinthians 69) ?What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God?s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,?
(Hebrews 134) ?Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers.?
I know you do not care about this scripture to much but at the time the Gospel was written this was used by Jesus and his disciples. (Malachi 215-16) ?And there was one who did not do , as he had what was remaining of spirit. And what was that one seeking? The seed of God. And YOU people must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and with the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously. 16 For he has hated a divorcing,? Jehovah the God of Israel has said; ?and the one who with violence has covered over his garment,? Jehovah of armies has said. ?And YOU must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and YOU must not deal treacherously.?
You ask me though about the Koran. You know the bible was around way before the Koran. In fact the Koran was written by many of those around Muhammad as he was illiterate himself. I heard the story that the Koran was there always and had no beginning and etc. just like Jehovah God, but if that is the case then how did it get written. If it was always here then that is impossible. Everything that is written has an author. The Koran was written by more than one author also. It has too many contradictions to be from Jehovah God or even inspired by him. Jehovah is a God of order, not disorder. (1 Corinthians 1433) ?For God is , not of disorder, but of peace. As in all the congregations of the holy ones,? (1 Corinthians 1440) ?But let all things take place decently and by arrangement.?
(Galatians 525) ?If we are living by spirit, let us go on walking orderly also by spirit.?
(Colossians 25) ?For though I am absent in the flesh, all the same I am with YOU in the spirit, rejoicing and beholding YOUR good order and the firmness of YOUR faith toward Christ.?
The Book of Numbers emphasizes that Jehovah is the God of order, requiring exclusive devotion of his creatures. This is vividly impressed on our minds when reading it as we observe the numbering, testing, and sifting of Israel and see how the nation?s disobedient and rebellious course is used to emphasize the vital need to obey Jehovah God.
Now what gets me here is you can see from the scriptures above that Jehovah is a God of Order and Peace. The Koran promotes hate and war towards that later part of its writings I have learned. Jehovah's largest quality is love. The Koran supports hellfire and torture. That is not what God is or has planned for mankind or even his enemies. Does this Koran to you sound like a book of love and peace if it contradicts the Torah, The Psalms, and the Gospel which was written way before the Koran came into the picture? This Koran uses scare tactics but if they followed the bible they would know that death is not torture or even heaven. You just die. The immortal soul came from Satan. He told Eve in the garden that if she ate from the tree she was told not to eat from she positively will not die. He lied to her. He is still telling all of mankind the same lie to control them. He scares them with the threat of hellfire that seers off there flesh and then it regrows back and seers it off again and so on for eternity. According to Islamic belief, Once a person dies Allah will then assess each person?s life course and consign him either to paradise or to hellfire. Hell which is also called She'ol or the grave is not a place to fear, because if so why would Job ask to be concealed in it?
(Job 1413-14) ?. . .O that in Sheol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! 14 If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes.?
(Ecclesiastes 910) ?All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.?
The scriptures are clear, Jehovah God is a God of Love.
(1 John 4 ?He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.?
(Exodus 346) ?And Jehovah went passing by before his face and declaring ?Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth,?
(Micah 71 ?Who is a God like you, one pardoning error and passing over transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? He will certainly not hold onto his anger forever, for he is delighting in loving-kindness.?
(1 John 419) ?As for us, we love, because he first loved us.?
Being that Jehovah God is a God of Love why would anyone think he teaches a hellfire and burning torture for all eternity unless they are talking about Lazarus which Jesus was using as a parable because scripturally Jehovah God does not even think of such a thing as burning torture for anyone. This is what Jehovah says when they where burning people or I should say their sons and daughters as sacrifices.
(Jeremiah 731) ?And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.??
(1 John 4 ?He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.?
This is how you weed out the truth. You look at the Word of God. It also weeds out false prophets and holy books. Do you not find it strange that all the false Pagan religions such as Hindu and Buddhists and so forth have hellfire scare tactics and eternal torture to scare people. That even includes supposed Christian groups such as the Southern Baptists and even the Catholic Church for that matter. I know you do not want to hear this but even the Koran has polluted the truths that Jehovah God wants everyone to come to know.
Before I became a Jehovah's Witness I searched for the truth in all manners and ways I could. I even was studying to do Astro travel on my own with books I read on it. I tried the Southern Baptist Church (Hellfire and Brimstone doctrines all the way.) and the Assembly of God (Which threw a Magic show to get people to come to it. You know that is not scriptural. The next time they threw a hard rock music show.) As a Child my mother took me to a Presbyterians Church (They would not allow the children to learn with the adults and we just learned how to decorate paper plates with painted noddles) and the Roman Catholic Church later on (They did the Midnight Christmas Mas in Latin and I walked out because frankly I went to learn and they only spoke a language I could not understand and they mumbled it at that.) and I was even Christened a Methodist as a very young boy. I use to check out some of Budda's teachings and I had a nice wooden budda where I rubbed the tummy with no results ever. I looked into Hindu also and that was not where it was at also.
One thing I did learn is that the bible was given to us to keep us on the right path. Anything that swayed us off that path would be revealed in the bible. I researched your Koran some. Enough to know that it is not from a God of Order. It does not meet the standards of the bible or even the Torah , the Psalms and the Gospel alone. Those are what are to help guide us to find the truth. It contradicts itself in fact. What attracted me to your web site is that you people do not believe in the Trinity and call Jehovah God by his true name. That impressed me a lot. But the more I researched the more I learned that you have been swayed to far off the path to everlasting life by a con man from Mecca. He took advantage of the Muslims need to feel they where important to Jehovah God and wrote his own book with help from others and the one who started the Lie that you will not die to begin with. We will die but we are in the last days when we may have a chance to not even have to die. Only if we are on the cramped and narrow path of truth though. I had been around Jehovah's Witnesses as a youth and I was beginning to believe in them. Then class mates told me they have their own bible and that Jehovah is not God's true name and so forth. I believed them then. Which is what started me out on other quests into other religions and I had already tried other religions before being around some Jehovah's Witnesses. I was in the US Navy when in our barracks sat a Gideon Bible. I opened it up to Psalms 8318 and there it was in another bible. The truth that I did not believe because I was lied too. It was in the King James but this is how it is said in my present bible called the New World Translation, (Psalm 831 ?That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.?
After that I started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses some time later when they came to my door. I then realized that if I was to be teaching Love and Peace I had to stop being a part of the US Military or any military for that matter. Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral and do not go to war in any country. What made me realize the military service had to go was Jesus was tempted by Satan after fasting for 40 days in the wilderness. Satan in one of his attempts to sway Jesus offered him all the Nations of the earth if he would just bow down and do an act of worship to Satan. That means Satan has all the world governments in his hands including your own. Jesus never denied that Satan had that much power as he knew he did. So that makes the military the strong arm of those governments that Satan runs. Besides Jehovah in the 10 commandments says " You must not murder ". They only time he allowed Murder was when he was removing those from the lands he promised to his then chosen people, the Israelites. They murdered his Only begotten Son Jesus when he was in human form on earth so he took his blessings away from them after that. They are no longer his people. Instead he has opened up to people of all nations of the earth to come and join him and become Spiritual Israelites, not fleshly one and his other sheep the great crowd or multitude.
Those of the great crowd are promised a paradise earth to live on to time indefinite and even forever. They are promised no more death or pain or sorrow when the tent of God is with Mankind. Rev. 211-4 (Not Angel Kind but Mankind). But the scriptures also say the price for sin is death. Here is the best part, some will be allowed to walk to the other side of the great day of Jehovah's anger without ever having to die. But if we are sinning and not repentant then that will not happen. You have a chance to live forever as Adam and Eve would have had they not rebelled against Jehovah God's one commandment he told them not to do and told them the consequences of what would happen if they did.
Now if you still want to follow a book that is a contradiction in itself, the Koran, then you made your choice. But if you want to follow God's Word then you need to heed the bible. In a court of law in any country, yes, you can get a divorce and in fact that is exactly what Satan wants you to do. Because in doing so you have broken the bond of Marriage which was originally instituted by Jehovah God Himself. Satan loves to break up marriages. He loves one or the other of the marriage partners to be unfaithful to the other so that they are broken bonds or cords and then the threefold cord which is much harder to break will break that much easier.
What I am getting here is you are worried about how much your wife will receive if she divorces you of both of your properties and finances and if there are children involved am I correct? It is the usual issues.
I was married in the world before I became a Jehovah's Witness. My first wife lift me because of my becoming a Jehovah's Witness. She was raised to believe they are communists and a occult which both of those are lies. I would not divorce her as there was no grounds when she lift me. 3 Days later she came back and told me I had grounds for a divorce. I was in total shock she could so easily throw away what I thought we had between us. Women do not reason as men. They are run on emotions. I did not fight it too hard but to be on the safe side I gave her 6 months before I started the divorce proceedings but as soon as she lift me I gave her the whole apartment and everything I had almost. I left almost all of it behind except some blankets and pillows and cloths and a few important documents. The last time I saw her was when she came to pick up her finalized divorce papers. She broke down crying saying I thought she was ugly. I never said that and I did not think that also. I have no clue where that came from because I really wanted to hug her but I was afraid if I did that my heart would only get tore up again. So when I hesitated she automatically took it as the worst. I thought she was very pretty to be honest. That was the last time I ever saw her again in that manner. To tell you the truth I never stopped loving her. But she did not come back and she broke the marriage bond. The Elders are the ones who sat me down and told me I must divorce her as she was spreading my name around in the mud with every man she laid down with. I had my last name removed from her in the divorce proceedings legally so that would not longer happen. After that I had no plans to ever remarry again. Of course I did not know I was going to fall head over hills with my present wife. If she must leave you, no matter what the courts say, give her everything she wants even if she is in the wrong. you will have a cleaner conscience afterwards. That is what I learned. Leave in peace not anger and war and hatred. Only if there are grounds for such a departure on one of your sides? Adultery! If not then refuse divorce on scriptural grounds. Just tell her until there are scriptural grounds you can not give her a divorce because Jehovah God hates divorcing.
Now you did not answer my questions, which is why she wants a divorce from you in the first place? It is much easier if you tell me why to give good advise from the scriptures. At this way I have to go on presumptions and cover all bases. Also remember you are to give the laws of the land there proper place but when it conflicts with Jehovah God's laws and commandments in the scriptures you are to go by Jehovah God's laws over those of anyone else. Since you are to follow the Gospel also, you are to show love to your enemies scripturally speaking so how much more so with the wife you shared your most intimate moments and memories and time with? That is why I got out of the US Navy as a conscientious objector also.
I hope this helps but I need to know things about you other than what the laws you want to use are? The Koran is not the original word of God contrary to the con everyone is giving Muslims. Jehovah God split with the Israelites and his Messiah as was promised came already and fulfilled the law of Moses and the prophesies way before Muhammad showed up on the scene. In fact Muhammad uses some of the very prophesies that Jesus already fulfilled and it came from the bible to show he is the promised one. So he quotes the bible when it suits him but where was his miracles like Moses and Jesus performed? He did not raise anyone from the dead or heal the afflicted ones or make water appear where the was none or open the Red Sea and save the people. Where was his miracles. The Messiah was to perform many great and powerful works. Muhammad performed none? He is like Joseph Smith of the Mormons. A con man. Satan when he rebelled pulled about 1/3 of the angels away from Jehovah. Well Muhammad pulled about 1/3 of the earth away from exclusive devotion to Jehovah God also. Those supporting the Koran are saying his Koran was always here and has no beginning and no end just like Jehovah God himself from what I learned. Then they are putting a book in the same category as Jehovah God and he is a God exacting exclusive devotion. He is not going to share that place with a book that is so disorganized it is sickening to think anyone actually believes it is holy. It is not even scriptural at all. They are worshiping a book when the put it as high as Jehovah God himself.
(Exodus 205) ?You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;?
It is time for you all to turn back to Jehovah God and give him Exclusive Devotion, not a book that came way later. Jesus put to death on the torture stake the law of Moses in fulfilling every part of it. The only ones who are now making up stuff to keep you from learning the real truth is those religious leaders that torture you with hellfire and scare tactics and fleece you of all they can in the name of a book that is suppose to be par to Jehovah God?
It is time you reach out to Jehovah's People who do worship him with exclusive devotion. Jehovah's Witnesses or witnesses of Jehovah is what it means. In no few thousand years Jehovah has not changed. He always was and always will be the same personality. He offers you real hope. Not what you are being given now. He does not tell you to kill yourselves to prove your devotion to him. He does not tell you to kill others to prove it. You must not murder period and that includes yourselves.
Anything else is a lie and always has been. If it is between giving up Jehovah or dying then take dying but to take your own life to kill others is still murder. That you are commanded scripturally from Jehovah God himself not to do.
Take care If you need more advice contact someone at http//www.watchtower.org and get a free in home bible study going in your own language. See you later.