Interesting debate between atheist professor and his student.
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Don't miss even a single word...Every second is worth reading this mail... Too good An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.
He asks one of his new students to stand and.....
Prof
So you believe in God?
Student
Absolutely, sir.
Prof
Is God good?
Student
Sure.
Prof
Is God all-powerful?
Student
Yes.
Prof
My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
(Student is silent.)
Prof
You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student
Yes.
Prof
Is Satan good?
Student
No.
Prof
Where does Satan come from?
Student
From...God.. .
Prof
That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student
Yes.
Prof
Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student
Yes.
Prof
So who created evil?
(Student does not answer.)
Prof
Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student
Yes, sir.
Prof
So, who created them?
(Student has no answer.)
Prof
Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you.
Tell me, son...Have you ever
seen God?
Student
No, sir.
Prof
Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student
No, sir.
Prof
Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student
No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof
Yet you still believe in Him?
Student
Yes.
Prof
According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist.
What do you say to that, son?
Student
Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof
Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student
Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof
Yes.
Student
And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof
Yes.
Student
No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)
Student
Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat.
But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go
any further after that.
There is no such thing as cold . Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat
. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy . Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it .
(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)
Student
What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof
Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student
You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright
light, flashing light....But if
you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In
reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof
So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student
Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof
Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student
Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life just the absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor.Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof
If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student
Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)
Student
Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class is in uproar.)
Student
Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?
(The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student
Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain,sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable. )
Prof
I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student
That is it sir... The link between man & god is FAITH . That is all that keeps things moving & alive.
I believe you have enjoyed the conversation. ..and if so...you'll probably want your friends/colleagues to enjoy the same...won't you?....
this is a true story, and the
student was none other than........ .APJ Abdul Kalam , the former president of India
-- best rgs.....kirupa -
Stupid professor!
Doesn't he know that he just have to take that smartass student to a brain surgeon and ask the brain surgeon to open his skull and show that his brain was not a matter of faith?
The prof. in this scene is just a strawman.
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Peace,
Although the story seems nice, it contradicts the Quran. The Professor is wrong in claiming science has disproved God as many scholars claim there is a design seen in the Universe. So no stance can be really taken. Also the Ontological argument for example is what would concern a Philosopher, since philosophy of science shows it is hard to use science as conclusive proof.
The claim that God is not Good because he didn't help the Professor's brother even though he prayed doesn't prove God is not Good, it only proves that God doesn't intervene in the Universe as this is not needed it seems.
Sickness and all these ' wrong' matters exist to create balance in nature. So it is a matter of perspective.
I personally do not really believe this conversation ever took place as my Philosophy professors would have handled their arguments far better and much stronger. The arguments given by this professor are very amateuristic.
The Quran says to take nothing on faith but on reason and evidence
1736 And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no
direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you
must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held
accountable for your hearing, Sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (And so, the
insane and the disabled will have their incapacities taken into account in a
court of law)7185 Can they not see (and correlate what he tells them with) the Dominion of the heavens and the earth and what Allah has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their own life may be near (hence the time to make the right decisions is not unlimited)? What HADITH (besides the Qur?an), are they going to believe after him?
8817 Will they not, then, look at
- the water-laden clouds, how they are made? (1522).
8818 - And at the sky, how it is raised high? (Without visible pillars 132).
8819 - And at the mountains, how they are entrenched?
8820 - And at the earth, how it is spread out? (That you do not even feel the
sphere, nor feel its speedy rotations 3110, 395, 7928-30).
8821 (This is some evidence, O Messenger!) Remind them, for you are one
to remind.
2118 Only those who fail to explore the realm of knowledge say, ?Why does Allah not speak unto us directly, nor is a miracle shown to us?? Even thus, as they now speak, spoke those who lived before their times. Their ways of thinking, their hearts and minds are all alike (untouched by the passage of time.) Indeed, We have made all the Signs clear for people who wish to attain conviction by exploring the intrinsic Truth in these Revelations and in the Universe. (2108, 2256, 1829, 4251, 763)
2164 (Never does Allah propose blind faith.) Behold, there are ample Signs In the creation of the Heavens and the Earth, and the alternation of the night and the day - and the ships that roam the ocean for the benefit of mankind - and the water that Allah sends down from the sky, thereby giving life to the land after it had been lifeless - and in dispersing a great variety of creatures therein - and in the currents of winds - and the clouds subservient between the high atmosphere and the Earth. All these are clear Signs for those who exercise their intellect. (The Universe is too organized to be the result of an accident 673.)
3191 (Such men and women of understanding keep reflecting upon how Allah?s Laws operate in the Universe.) Standing, sitting, and reclining, they observe, and reflect upon Allah's creation of the Heavens and the Earth and wonder, "Our Lord! You have not created all this without Purpose. High Above You are from creating anything in vain! Save us, then, from being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus, getting condemned to Fire.? (When humans harness the forces of Nature and use them for the common good of all, they move away from Hell and close to Paradise in both lives 4513-14).
1679 Have they not considered the birds enabled to fly in mid-air, with none but Allah holding them aloft? (2471). In this, behold, are messages for those who wish to attain conviction through reason.
4013 He it is Who shows you His Signs in the Universe and sends down sustenance for you from the sky. Yet none learns a lesson except those who turn to seek the Truth.
4233 And if He so wills He calms the winds so that they come to a halt on its surface. Herein, behold, are signs for everyone who is patient (in reading the Book of Nature) and grateful (for what he learns).
695 Allah is the One Who causes the grains and the seeds to split and germinate. He produces the living from the dead, and the dead from the living. Such is Allah. Where are you headed in bewilderment? (Similar are the Laws that apply to individuals and nations. They must develop their inherent potentials in order to prosper.)
696 He is the Cleaver of the daybreak. He has appointed the night for stillness, (rest and tranquility) and the sun and the moon to run their well-calculated courses. They become means of calculating time for you (105). Such is the Design of the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing.105 He it is, Who appointed the sun as a splendid glow, and the moon as a cool light. He appointed stages for the moon, in due measure. You make your calculations and calendars accordingly (697, 1712). Allah has created the Universe as the Absolute Reality and for a Purpose. (It is neither a dream, nor a reflection of the world of ideas). Allah details His Verses for those who wish to learn.
106 In the difference of day and night, and all that Allah has created in the heavens and the earth, there are signs for those who wish to walk aright.
1432 (Think about the Source of your wealth and provision). Allah it is Who has created the heavens and the earth, and sends down water from the sky, thereby producing fruit and vegetation as provision for you. And He makes ships and boats to be of service to you that they sail in the sea by His Command, and has made of service to you the rivers.
- the water-laden clouds, how they are made? (1522).
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Peace.
Respectfully.Nice story and interesting but brother Arnold made stronger arguments.
God in 736 wants us to verify all info we get and whenever i say that to sunnis around me, they tell me that it doesn't matter what i have read in the Quran because i haven't tlaked to the local sheiks.I simply remove myself from them because i see that i have won the debate.
Always verify everything you see, hear, ... always.
God bless you all.Peace.
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It's a chain mail and it's carefully doctored, I've seen it 1 or 2 times already attributed to other subjects (usually in a smart person vs naive person format just like this). And to say a Sunni came up with this
Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life just the absence of it.
Is a big fish to swallow. A fish that likely doesn't exist. Nobody "normal" would come out with something like that...
I like Arnold's collection of verses though ;D
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I know of a simpler solution to this argument, knowing. If you take some time and in honesty and sincerety you look deep into yourself, you will establish a relationship with a force that has being called God. And presto, you don't need the prof. or any lengthy explenation.
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Now I feel bad for brother/sister Katara, who posted that fictional conversation to share share some wisdom. I hope he/she will develop the sense of distinguishing fake conversations from real ones, straw men from real ones.
Peace,
Edip