Quran sent for only a certain people?
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How do you know that Jesus didn't speak and teach in Greek? At Jesus' time greek, aramaic and hebrew were spoken.
Acts 6
1In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.
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Salam,
Because Isa was sent to the children of Isreal and they spoke Hebrew, a semitic language. Aramaic is a sister language to Hebrew (and in my opinion the same language only a different dialect).
I personally do not believe that Acts is scripture.
Salam,
Arnab -
In Jesus' time, Hebrew was already a dying language, used only for reading the bible and religious ceremonies. Jesus and the other Jews of Judea spoke Aramaic.
You can tell from the New Testament itself
Mark 541
He took her by the hand and said to her, "Talitha koum!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!" ).
'Talitha Koum' is Aramaic.
Matthew 2746
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"?which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Again, Aramaic. Jesus could have known some Greek, but there is no record of him using it in the scriptures. Judea had been a part of bother the Selucid Greek and Ptolomeic Greek Empires at some time or another, but revolted against them - the failure of the Selucid's to assimilate the Jews played a big part in the their empire's downfall. This is why the gospel according to braveheart (The Passion of Christ) casts Jesus as speaking Aramaic.
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http//www.faithfulbible.com/nt/A-aramaic.htm
Did Jesus speak Greek or Aramaic?
When Alexander the Great conquered the known world about 300 BC, he made Greek the official language of his empire, as well as enforcing a common form of currency. This Greek came to be known as Koine Greek, (pronounced "koy-NEY" which means "Common Greek". With a common language and common currency, trade was greatly facilitated. Koine Greek was still the working language of the Roman Empire in the 1st century. Certainly if you were a literate person, or a businessperson, there were very compelling reasons to know Greek.
So it was very common in the first century Roman Empire for your own local native language to be your main tongue, but Greek as a second language.Many of the Jews of the Diaspora ("the scattered" - those scattered outside of Palestine throughout the Empire) no longer knew Hebrew, and used the translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint, which was in Greek. This was the Greek Old Testament from which Paul and other New Testament writers quoted.
It was because Greek was such a common second language that Paul was able to travel the Empire and be understood wherever he preached. This enormously facilitated his efforts to spread Christianity.
And it could be argued that because Palestine was a major crossroad in the ancient world, it would make knowing Greek all the more compelling?what with all the non-Aramaic speaking foreigners passing through all the time.
As to whether Jesus used Aramaic or Greek in his utterances we just don't have enough hard facts to know for a certainty. There is every reason to believe that Jesus would know Greek as a literate man of his day (as well as Aramaic which was native to that area). And Palestine being the crossroads that it was, it seems entirely logical that he would preach in Greek so as to be understood by the greatest number of people. The simple language of his parables, for example, would have worked very well with audiences trying to understand him in a second language.
And then there's the internal evidence where Jesus does use Aramaic and it is recorded by the Gospel writers. Here are passages where an Aramaic word or phrase occurs in the middle of the Greek (in the Gospels), by Jesus or anyone else
(Jesus) "And whoever says to his brother Raka..." ( Matt.522).
(Jesus) "And having laid hold of the child's hand he says to her Talitha koum, which is being translated Maiden" ( Mark.541)
(The Gospel Writer) "And they lead him up to the place Golgotha, which is being translated Place of the Skull." ( Mark.1522)
(Jesus) "And in the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachtani, which is being translated My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?" ( Mark.1534)
(Followers) "Now when Jesus turned and saw them following he says to them What are you seeking? And they said to him Rabbi, which is saying being translated Teacher..." ( John.13
(Followers) "This one finds first his own brother Simon and says to him We have found the Messiah, which is being translated Christ." ( John.141)
(Jesus) "He brought him to Jesus. Having looked upon him, Jesus said You are Simon the son of Jonas, you shall be called Cephas, which is translated Rock." ( John.142)
It would seem that the Gospel writers are being careful to preserve Aramaic when it occurs. The fact that they would do so doesn't make much sense if Jesus normally spoke in Aramaic. In fact, if Jesus routinely preached and spoke in Aramaic, why didn't the Gospel writers translate everything into Greek? The fact that the Gospel writers went to some trouble to carefully record a few instances of Aramaic?with Greek translations?would suggest that Aramaic was the exception and not the rule.
None of these are hard proofs; I don't believe hard proof is possible based on the paucity of the available evidence; but I think the preponderance of evidence is that Jesus preached in Greek.
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Problems with that. Firstly, yes the gospel writers did translate everything into Greek - the Aramaic phrases in the bible are always accompanied by translations. This suggests that the gospel writers included these phrases to give a flavour of the actual language Jesus was using all the time.
As I've already pointed out, although Judea was a part of Alexanders original empire, it quickly revolted. Not like places like Eqypt and Syria which remained ruled by Greeks up until the Roman Conquests. Judea threw out the Greek empires that sort to control it - as they tried to force the Jews to adopt paganism.
It's true, Greek would be a language of merchant trade, but Jesus isn't meant to have been a merchant, but a craftsman. And speaking greek would mean only the literate upper classes would have understand him in Judea - he would have reached a wider audience by speaking aramaic. The majority of people were not educated and therefore probably not bi-lingual - for Jesus to preach in that language could have been very elitist.
This fits in well with the fact that Christianity did not spread rapidly amongst the Greeks until Paul came along - it was he who started the emphasis on recording things in Greek.
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Salam Aaron,
Quote from Arnab
And the messenger that first lead pvb to faith was Jesus.you mean pvb's faith that god has a son?
sarcasm noted.
But, of course, I meant the fact that pvb is here and reading the same books we are. He presents challenging questions and we all benefit from exploring the answers. Even if we disagree.
We are all at different places on the same path.
Quote from Arnab
After all we know that Isa even spoke to the people about Muhammad.only if you leave some of the words untranslated
Yes, ?Muhammad? is an Arabic word and left untranslated ;D
Salam,
Arnab -
LOL!! Aaron- Jesus never mentioned Mohammad.
Who do Muslims believe is Jesus' father? Is the father mentioned in the Quran? Why use Mary? Why not create Jesus the very same way He created Adam?
Thanks Arnab, I appreciate that-"we all benefit from exploring the answers. Even if we disagree."
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pvb i never said jesus mentioned muhammad firstly so pay attention
and arnab even in quran it only says ahmad... what source other than quran do you need to use to identify this so called "name" ahmad with the so called name "muhammad"... does quran ever say this ahmad and this muhammad are one and the same?
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and arnab even in quran it only says ahmad... what source other than quran do you need to use to identify this so called "name" ahmad with the so called name "muhammad"... does quran ever say this ahmad and this muhammad are one and the same?
Salam,
You're right, my mistake. I was speaking from memory and didn't actually look up the verse. It does say Ahmad and not Muhammad.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam Aaron,
and you automatically take it to mean "his name will be ahmad" instead of translating all the words Wink
I think it can be read both ways and neither is wrong.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam Aaron,
Ahmad can be read either as a proper name or as a word that is not a proper name such as the characteristic of a person.
hmad means praiseworthy, laudable, commendable, etc.
Ahamad more praiseworthy, more laudible, etc
so the understanding of the part of the verse that talks of what can be understood as Muhammad can be loosely translated at least two ways
....his name is Ahmad....
...his reputation/identity is praiseworthy....
One way is literal and the other is not but both are true because Muhammad was indeed praiseworthy.
Salam,
Arnab -
excuuuuuse me! as Steve Martin would say. Do you know Steve Martin? He is a hoot!
Arnab is the culprit!! LOL! ok.
Is this what you mean?
John 14
15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever? 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. -
Salam pvb,
LOL
Yes, Steve Martin is one of my favorite comedians.And, yes, along with the Quran referrence above, John 1416-17 and John 167-18 was what I was referring to in the NT. I didn't post these referrences because they didn't specifically say "ahmad" or "muhammad"
and Aaron would have been the first to point that out LOL
Salam,
Arnab