the Abdallah's name in the Quran (I want your opinion)

jonny_k

Peace "nun de plume",

Peace jonny_k,

Qur?an is a book written in people?s minds thus a remembrance/reminder; delivery mechanism varies.

It?s not a literal book like a paperback or cd which they threw behind their backs.
2101 And when a messenger came to them from at God confirming to what (is) with them, a group from those who were given The Book, discarded/rejected God's Book behind their backs, as if they do not know.

JK- Well then we have the same problems. As i said shias recite various other suras and they are in their minds too and they label them Quran. Also BOTH hafs and warsh ARE RECITED DIFFERENTLY TOO. Didnt i show you one instance where "allah" is "huwa" in the warsh. In their places the grammar is different which you can check for yourself. So what is the divine recital now since it cant be both? Just because theres a dominant recital in the world which is labelled Quran still doesnt make it the true one.

NO, and already stated this is not referring to Qur?an was the point?

JK- It may not be referring to the Quran but it is an indication that GOD's scriptures are MATHEMATICALLY STRUCTURED. That is part of His Sunnah and indeed this is the best rational way of preservation. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "nun de plume",

Peace jonny_k,

God knows to above question, and I did literally quote 7031 (?) means first part omitted.

JK- anyone who transgresses these limits is a sinner.
This verse does not talk about muhkam and mutashabihah ayaat.

This is manipulative translation yet none knew about code 19 and 9128-129 until 1974 or whatever Julian Calendar Years (look 19 letters ) that RK was enlightened and we have new code magic being discovered daily by working the problem backwards and using selective inclusion/exclusion techniques.

JK- For the last time now THE METHOD IS CONSISTENT FOR A SIGNIFICANT SET OF WORDS/LETTERS/INITIALS. Did you even bother reading mathematician Abu Jamil's(Richard Voss) findings at 19.org? Regarding 9128&129 i already told you that people who were sinerely seeking the true Quran before RK wouldve received methods to distinguish the true Quran fom the fake or partially fake ones.

Please explain why you conveniently perused over this part about excluding all chapters EXCEPT 1st...

Subject 19 code magic exposed
The first letter Numbers DO lie!

http//www.inet.ba/~hardy/numbersdolie.htm

"...PLUS, He also excluded all of its occurences in the bismillahs at the begginings of the quranic chapters EXCEPT in the first one!?, that is, in 11. So, the statement that the second word (Allah=God) is mentioned in the Quran 2698 times, or 19x142 is simply A LIE. And, what a lie!! As simple as that."

JK- MAN didnt i explain this in my first reply to you? Whilst counting the WORDS in the Bismillah the 112 UNNUMBERED Bismillahs are CONSITENTLY left out for the count of every word. This is to indicate that those verses are DIFFERENT and act as repetitions and are unnumbered as a later pattern showed. If RK for example counted the word Allah excluding the unnumbered 112 Bismillahs obtaining a xple of 19 but whilst counting rahman hed have INCLUDED those 112 in the count to obtain a xple of 19, THEN YOUD HAVE A POINT. ONLY then would it mean that he was making selective counts. Do you get this now? GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace again "Nun de Plume",
Before i forget heres an even more marvellous phenomena related to the four words in the Bismillah. Professor Cesar Majul looked at the gematrical value of more than 400 attributes of God, and found only four names whose gematrical values are multiples of 19 whose GVs correspond exactly to the frequencies of occurrence of the BASMALAH's four words. Note that the gematrical/numerical values of the Arabic alphabet have been in exitsnce LONG BEFORE THE DISCOVERY OF THIS PHENOMENOM. Heres a list of those values http//www.submission.org/miracle/gematrical.html

Divine Name Gematrical Value

"Waahed" (One) 19
"Zul Fadl Al-`Azim" (Possessor of Infinite Grace) 2698
"Majid" (Glorious) 57
"Jaami`" (Summoner) 114

As noted above, the only Divine Names whose gematrical values are divisible by 19 correspond exactly to the frequencies of occurrence of the BASMALAH's four words. The figure below illustrates this remarkable phenomenon

Name (Ism) ______ 19 ________ (Waahed) One

God (Allah) ______ 2698 ________ (Zul Fadl Al-`Azim) Possessor of Infinite Grace

Most Gracious (Al-Rahman)______ 57 ________ (Majid) Glorious

Most Merciful (Al-Raheem)______ 114 ________ (Jaami`) Gatherer

The four words of Basmalah are shown on the left side, and the only four divine names whose gematrical values are divisible by 19 are on the right side. The numbers in the middle are the frequencies of occurrence of the words of Basmalah, and, at the same time, the gematrical values of the four divine names.

AND now yet another thing. An amazing prdiction made by bro Edip. As you can see all of the above are attributes EXCEPT the term "ism(name)" which is obviously not an attribute by itself. This made brother Edip oredict that there should be another attribute of GOD in the Quran whose count should not only be a xple of 19, NO, IT SHOULD BE EXACTLY 19. INDEED he found it. The attribute was "shaheed" and is the only attribute of GOD which occurs exactly 19 times. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace jonny_k,

JK- Well then we have the same problems. As i said shias recite various other suras and they are in their minds too and they label them Quran. Also BOTH hafs and warsh ARE RECITED DIFFERENTLY TOO. Didnt i show you one instance where "allah" is "huwa" in the warsh. In their places the grammar is different which you can check for yourself. So what is the divine recital now since it cant be both? Just because theres a dominant recital in the world which is labelled Quran still doesnt make it the true one.

Now we're back to Tomayto Tomahto 9129? say "All?h is sufficient for me. L? il?ha illa Huwa?"

Ponder the meaning of THE MESSAGE stop looking for patterns or you?ll go insane.

We follow the recital memorized from the beginning and committed to memory as a song?

Do-Re-Me-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do

Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami

Alif-Lam-Meem

Certainly, We have made this easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember. (445
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5417)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5422)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5432)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5440)

JK- For the last time now THE METHOD IS CONSISTENT FOR A SIGNIFICANT SET OF WORDS/LETTERS/INITIALS. Did you even bother reading mathematician Abu Jamil's(Richard Voss) findings at 19.org?

Yes and here is more reading for you thanks to the brother from Bosnia?

Code 19 Deceit
http//www.inet.ba/~hardy/code_19.htm

As stated earlier this is baby math pandering to the na?ve working the problem backwards;

Desired OUTPUT = cherry picked manipulative INPUT

Step 1 Choose Name
Step 2 Consult Infinite19 Tables
Step 3 Find {gv of name} = some number x 19

Proves NOTHING other than to impress as a cheap magicians trick to deceive people into abyss of insanity looking for patterns away from The Message of Truth.

Goodbye and God Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "nun de plume",

Peace jonny_k,

Now we're back to Tomayto Tomahto 9129? say "All?h is sufficient for me. L? il?ha illa Huwa?"

Ponder the meaning of THE MESSAGE stop looking for patterns or you?ll go insane.

We follow the recital memorized from the beginning and committed to memory as a song?

Do-Re-Me-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do

Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami

Alif-Lam-Meem

Certainly, We have made this easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember. (445
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5417)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5422)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5432)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5440)

JK- Honestly you seem totally deluded. What has he musical scale got to do with the Quran? And whees your evidence that this is the message which has been recited since the bginning of time? You make big claims without proof. And dont worry i wont go insane looking after consistent patterns. I might if i sought meaning in random patterns which wht ive presented so far clearly isnt.

Yes and here is more reading for you thanks to the brother from Bosnia?

Code 19 Deceit
http//www.inet.ba/~hardy/code_19.htm

As stated earlier this is baby math pandering to the na?ve working the problem backwards;

Desired OUTPUT = cherry picked manipulative INPUT

Step 1 Choose Name
Step 2 Consult Infinite19 Tables
Step 3 Find {gv of name} = some number x 19

Proves NOTHING other than to impress as a cheap magicians trick to deceive people into abyss of insanity looking for patterns away from The Message of Truth.

Goodbye and God Bless!

JK- Ive exposed this "brother" from Bosnia named "Zlatan" in the past many times. The three steps you mentioned is nothing of the sort which i presented. You DONT address the points i made at all and everyone can see this. Instead you throw in more and more stuff without answering the former. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "nun de plume",
Before i forget it there indeed are people who want to prove their points using inconsitent GV and word counts. Others even claimed messengership based on such BUT they were exposed BY THE SAME PEOPLE who appreciate the real pattern based on code-19, meaning bro Edip, Richard Voss(in case you havnt read his article) myself and others. If you study closely you can clearly distinguish the diamonds from glass. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace jonny_z,

JK- Ive exposed this "brother" from Bosnia named "Zlatan" in the past many times. The three steps you mentioned is nothing of the sort which i presented. You DONT address the points i made at all and everyone can see this. Instead you throw in more and more stuff without answering the former.

It?s you throwing more stuff to pollute the thread and I don?t have time to address them all.

Let?s stick with ONE at a time Allah is mentioned in Quran 2698 times 19x142 is A LIE!

You wrote

JK- MAN didnt i explain this in my first reply to you? Whilst counting the WORDS in the Bismillah the 112 UNNUMBERED Bismillahs are CONSITENTLY left out for the count of every word. This is to indicate that those verses are DIFFERENT and act as repetitions and are unnumbered as a later pattern showed. If RK for example counted the word Allah excluding the unnumbered 112 Bismillahs obtaining a xple of 19 but whilst counting rahman hed have INCLUDED those 112 in the count to obtain a xple of 19, THEN YOUD HAVE A POINT. ONLY then would it mean that he was making selective counts. Do you get this now? GOD Bless!

It's difficult to follow what you write although we can see that CONSISTENLY should read CONVENIENTLY -- did NOT fit the pattern, therefore?

11 Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami ? included

1140 Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami ? all 112 omitted

9129? say "All?h is sufficient for me. L? il?ha illa Huwa?" ? omitted

Please explain WHY in clear LOGIC so people can understand the manipulation to get 2698?

jonny_k

Peace "nun de plume",

Peace jonny_z,

It?s you throwing more stuff to pollute the thread and I don?t have time to address them all.

Let?s stick with ONE at a time Allah is mentioned in Quran 2698 times 19x142 is A LIE!

JK- NO it is NOT a lie and ive clearly explained why. You dont even bother to read the explanations.

It's difficult to follow what you write although we can see that CONSISTENLY should read CONVENIENTLY -- did NOT fit the pattern, therefore?

11 Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami ? included

1140 Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami ? all 112 omitted

9129? say "All?h is sufficient for me. L? il?ha illa Huwa?" ? omitted

Please explain WHY in clear LOGIC so people can understand the manipulation to get 2698?

JK- BECAUSE THOSE ARE UNNUMBERED VERSES AND THE WORDS IN THEM ARE NOT TO BE COUNTED. Now how do we know this? We know this BECAUSE IT WORKS FOR ALL THE ATTRIBUTES MENTIONED IN THE BISMILLAH. If we had to include 20...1140... whilst counting "rahman" or "raheem" or both then the count of "allah" being 2698 would be unjustified BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE. The point is to stay consistent once you use a method stick to it. Man i explained this in so much detail yet you ask the same thing again and again. Reg 9129 it violates other parts of the mathematical pattern for which youll have to study http//www.submission.org/tampering.html and connect the dots. GOD Bless!

Hati

Salam Nun,

I posted this earlier; that book is NOT Qur'an and it clearly states who's book the numbered book is, read

837-9

Kalla inna kitaba alfujjari lafee sijjeenin
No but that truly the debauchers'/corrupters' Book/judgment (is) in (E) Sijjin.

Wama adraka ma sijjeenun
And what made you know/informed you what (is) Sijjin?

Kitabun marqoomun
A written/branded/inscribed Book.

Quote
the gematrical value of the Word Abdallah 142 ( Ain = 70 , Ba= 2 , Da = 4 , Alef = 1 , lam = 30 , Lam = 30 , Ha = 5 ) = (7+0+2+4+1+3+0+3+0+5 = 25 = (19+30 ) = 25+1+9+3+0 = 38 + (72+19) = 38 +7+2+1+9 = 57 (19*3)
also egual

Ain = 70 , Ba= 2 , Da = 4 , Alef = 1 , lam = 30 , Lam = 30 , Ha = 5

7! Factorial = 7x6x5x4x3x2x1 = 5,040 possible names with same result

Yes in mathematics there are n! different ways you can arrange the n letters!

I agree with you, the book clearly refers to the record on the day of judgment as gleaned from the following verses in the right context

Woe to those that deal in fraud,-

Those who, when they have to receive by measure from men, exact full measure,

But when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due.

Do they not think that they will be called to account?-

On a Mighty Day,

A Day when (all) mankind will stand before the Lord of the Worlds?

Day! Surely the record of the wicked is (preserved) in Sijjin.

And what will explain to thee what Sijjin is?

(There is) a Register (fully) inscribed.

Transliteration
Waylun lilmutaffifeena

Allatheena itha iktaloo AAala alnnasi yastawfoona

Wa-itha kaloohum aw wazanoohum yukhsiroona

Ala yathunnu ola-ika annahum mabAAoothoona

Liyawmin AAatheemin

Yawma yaqoomu alnnasu lirabbi alAAalameena

Kalla inna kitaba alfujjari lafee sijjeenin

Wama adraka ma sijjeenun

Kitabun marqoomun

Arberry
Woe to the stinters who,

when they measure against the people, take full measure

but, when they measure for them or weigh for them, do skimp.

Do those not think that they shall be raised up

unto a mighty day

a day when mankind shall stand before the Lord of all Being?

No indeed; the Book of the libertines is in Sijjin;

and what shall teach thee what is Sijjin?

A book inscribed.

Khalifa
Woe to the cheaters.

Who demand full measure when receiving from the people.

But when giving them the measures or weights, they cheat.

Do they not know that they will be resurrected?

On a tremendous day?

That is the day when all people will stand before the Lord of the universe.

Indeed, the book of the wicked is in Sijjeen.

Do you know what Sijjeen is?

A numerically structured book.

May God Bless us all.

Hati

Hati

Salam,

When GOD's servant advocated Him alone, almost all of them banded together to oppose him.

as people say perhaps Muhammad ;Dperhaps Rashad Grin but I say Perhapd Abdallah yeahright

the Abdallah name is a loved and popular name in the arabic countries even with the Jews people( Israel) they like this name because the Israel name meant Abdallah in the ebrew language .

the gematrical value of the Word Abdallah 142 ( Ain = 70 , Ba= 2 , Da = 4 , Alef = 1 , lam = 30 , Lam = 30 , Ha = 5 ) = (7+0+2+4+1+3+0+3+0+5 = 25 = (19+30 ) = 25+1+9+3+0 = 38 + (72+19) = 38 +7+2+1+9 = 57 (19*3)
also egual

chapter 19 verse 30

(The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet.

chapter 72 verse 19

When GOD's servant advocated Him alone, almost all of them banded together to oppose him.
the gematrical value of the word Abdallah is 142

'1930' +'7219'+'142' = 9291 (19*489)

ok another proof

Quran says chapter 74 verse 30 " Over it is nineteen " you didn't see that the Abdallah's name is mentioned on the

verset number 19 chapter 72 (1+9+7+2) = 19 (19*1) ?

ok

the gematrical value of the verse " Over it is nineteen " is 1221 and the gematrical value of the word Abdallah is 142

(74+30 +1221) +( 72+19+142 ) = (1558 ) (1982) also (1+5+5+ = 19 (191)

the gematrical value of the first revelation is 5809 the gematrical value of the verse " Over it is nineteen " is 1221

Read, in the name of your Lord, who created.*

He created man from an embryo.

Read, and your Lord, Most Exalted.

Teaches by means of the pen.

He teaches man what he never knew.

(5809 +1221 ) = 7030 (19*370)

on the first revelation there are 19 words (191) and 76 letters (194) God is choose this language ( mathematics) for to undesrtand his message

Dear brother and sister in the God's submission I would inform you that the world is become a small village I think I say I think God would send two other messengers for confirming his scripture and that Rashad Khalifa wasn't a liar or a dejall as the disbelievers says, I hope you study and study the Quran because it's the only source for having a peace life and be sure dear brothers and sisters that Our Kingdom it's not on this earth it's in the eternal life , I hope you will be there all as queens and kings .

Cite for them the example of people in a community that received the messengers.

the world is become a small village sun

When we sent to them two (messengers), they disbelieved them. We then supported them by a third. They said, "We are (God's) messengers to you."

Assuming that you have mathematically proven that Abdallah is a name of person in those verses, let us insert the name not the meaning of that name

Transliteration
Qala innee AAabdu Allahi ataniya alkitaba wajaAAalanee nabiyyan

Arberry
He said, 'Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet.

Khalifa (why is he here?)
(The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet.

Noble Verse(s) 7219

Transliteration
Waannahu lamma qama AAabdu Allahi yadAAoohu kadoo yakoonoona AAalayhi libadan

Arberry
When Abdallah stood calling on Him, they were wellnigh upon him in swarms.

Khalifa
When Abdallah advocated Him alone, almost all of them banded together to oppose him.

So be it, because Muhammad's name is not translated do the same for other names you believe is in Quran. It would be a double standard that other names are translated but for other prophets their names are not translated.

Like the following

Yusuf Ali
Say "I know not whether the (Punishment) which ye are promised is near, or whether my Lord will appoint for it a distant term.

"He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,-

"Except an apostle whom He has chosen and then He makes a band of rasadan march before him and behind him,

"That He may know that they have (truly) brought and delivered the Messages of their Lord and He surrounds (all the mysteries) that are with them, and takes account of every single thing."

Transliteration
Qul in adree aqareebun ma tooAAadoona am yajAAalu lahu rabbee amadan

AAalimu alghaybi fala yuthhiru AAala ghaybihi ahadan

Illa mani irtada min rasoolin fa-innahu yasluku min bayni yadayhi wamin khalfihi rasadan

LiyaAAlama an qad ablaghoo risalati rabbihim waahata bima ladayhim waahsa kulla shay-in AAadadan

Arberry
Say 'I do not know whether that which you are promised is nigh, or whether my Lord will appoint for it a space;

Knower He of the Unseen, and He discloses not His Unseen to anyone,

save only to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with; then He despatches before him and behind him rasadan,

that He may know they have delivered the Messages of their Lord; and He encompasses all that is with them, and He has numbered everything in numbers.'

Khalifa
Say, "I do not know if what is promised to you will happen soon, or if my Lord will delay it for awhile."

He is the Knower of the future; He does not reveal the future to anyone.

Illa mani irtada min rasoolin fa-innahu yasluku min bayni yadayhi wamin khalfihi rasadan

Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future, rasadan.

This is to ascertain that they have delivered their Lord's messages. He is fully aware of what they have. He has counted the numbers of all things.

God bless you

Hati

unknownuser

Salam Hati,

Yes in mathematics there are n! different ways you can arrange the n letters!

I agree with you, the book clearly refers to the record on the day of judgment

Thanks for agreeing and for staying on topic and answering the original question.

Peace jonny_k,

JK- NO it is NOT a lie and ive clearly explained why. You dont even bother to read the explanations.

JK- BECAUSE THOSE ARE UNNUMBERED VERSES AND THE WORDS IN THEM ARE NOT TO BE COUNTED. Now how do we know this? We know this BECAUSE IT WORKS FOR ALL THE ATTRIBUTES MENTIONED IN THE BISMILLAH. If we had to include 20...1140... whilst counting "rahman" or "raheem" or both then the count of "allah" being 2698 would be unjustified BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE. The point is to stay consistent once you use a method stick to it. Man i explained this in so much detail yet you ask the same thing again and again. Reg 9129 it violates other parts of the mathematical pattern for which youll have to study http//www.submission.org/tampering.html and connect the dots. GOD Bless!

Tampering NOT allowed!

That We, We descended the reminder/remembrance, and that We (are) for it, protectors/guards.

Numbering is INCONSISTENT 1st Surah 11?last Surah 10
Numbering is INNOVATION not part of Qur?an or recital
Numbering is ONLY for quick reference
EXCLUDED when counting words Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami
INCLUDED when counting initials
UNNUMBERED VERSES AND THE WORDS IN THEM ARE NOT TO BE COUNTED ?
means (2) Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami NOT (114)
CONSISTENT is then to omit all 112 Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami

This leaves us with?
9129? say "All?h is sufficient for me. L? il?ha illa Huwa?" ? omitted

We are now finished and continue to omit ALL other words in Qur?an which are NOT multiples of 19.

Desired OUTPUT = Manipulated INPUT
http//www.learnenglish.org.uk/games/magic-gopher-central.swf

Presto!

This is becoming redundant and exhausting so please excuse me if don?t reply to this thread anymore.

Peace

jonny_k

Peace "nun de plume",

Peace jonny_k,

Tampering NOT allowed!

JK- As ive explained before the tampering was unsuccessful BUT IT WAS ATTEMPTED. You say Quran is only recital. Ok lets go fwith that for a moment. I ca recite something other than the Quran and call it Quran. Eg i could after reciting sura 1 verse 77 "siraatallazeena 'an amta 'alaihim, ghairil mahdoobi 'alihim wala daaleen", recite an additional statement like 78 "la ta'abudoona illa allahi ahada fa in kuntum minal fassiqeen(do not worship anyone besides GOD lest you become extreme wrongdoers)". This would make perfect logical sense, woudlnt contradict the Message of the Quran in any way. Could easily be accepted as Quran. BUT it isnt. Get the point now?

That We, We descended the reminder/remembrance, and that We (are) for it, protectors/guards.

Numbering is INCONSISTENT 1st Surah 11?last Surah 10
Numbering is INNOVATION not part of Qur?an or recital
Numbering is ONLY for quick reference
EXCLUDED when counting words Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami
INCLUDED when counting initials
UNNUMBERED VERSES AND THE WORDS IN THEM ARE NOT TO BE COUNTED ?
means (2) Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami NOT (114)
CONSISTENT is then to omit all 112 Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami

This leaves us with?
9129? say "All?h is sufficient for me. L? il?ha illa Huwa?" ? omitted

We are now finished and continue to omit ALL other words in Qur?an which are NOT multiples of 19.

Desired OUTPUT = Manipulated INPUT
http//www.learnenglish.org.uk/games/magic-gopher-central.swf

Presto!

This is becoming redundant and exhausting so please excuse me if don?t reply to this thread anymore.

Peace

JK- Alright please just answer the following questions and maybe somehting will click in your mind

a) How do you know what is part of the Quran and what isnt? How do you what the Quran even is? As i said people recite many Qurans in various different accents as well as vaiants in grammar which can be seen especially if we compare the hafs to the warsh RECITATIONS.
b) Did you ever wonder why the Quran mentions so many numbers eg Noah living amongst his people for 1000 LESS 50 years, the sleepers in the cave staying there 300 PLUS 9 years, 7 heavens, angels carrying out the command of GOD in a period/day the count of which being 50,000 years, one period/day of GOD being equal to 1000 years of our count? Are these number there for fun or poetry(Note the Quran states it is NOT poetry).
c) Why does the Quran also refer to itself as the Book if its only a recital?
d) Why does even the oldest available manuscript contain spaces between what ?s considered as verses and coicnidentally those form part of a pattern? e) Why is a significant no of initial ltters found in their respective chapters in xples of 19, particularly the two suras which are ininialed Qaaf BOTH having 57 Qaafs and the Quran having 114 chapters.
f) Is the significance of "zan-noon" and 681 not clear enough or coincidental?
g) Is the fact that the GVs of four other attributes than the Bismillahs correspond exactly to the ok lets say even claimed counts of the words in the Bismillah a sheer coincidence? Please note that this discovery was made LONG after RK had counted the four words in the Bismillah. It only confirmed his counts regarding these terms.
h) Have you ever wondered why sura 9 is NOT PRECEDED by a Bismillah BUT AT THE SAME TIME theres an extra Bismillah found in Chapter 27(19 chapters from sura 9) verse 30 restoring the no of Bimillahs back to 114(19x6) as the number of chapters?

To answer your points 4&5 i already told you that such a distinction is necessary IF the 112 Bismillahs other than 2730 and 11 have a certain diffeent property which is that theyr unnumbered. Here GOD is apparently making this distinction. And just because words and letters have a different counting method doesnt make it insignificant. They are two different things each having it's own method and the method used consistently amongst each item so theres no problem and it remains significant. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace jonny_k,

JK- As ive explained before the tampering was unsuccessful BUT IT WAS ATTEMPTED. You say Quran is only recital. Ok lets go fwith that for a moment. I ca recite something other than the Quran and call it Quran. Eg i could after reciting sura 1 verse 77 "siraatallazeena 'an amta 'alaihim, ghairil mahdoobi 'alihim wala daaleen", recite an additional statement like 78 "la ta'abudoona illa allahi ahada fa in kuntum minal fassiqeen(do not worship anyone besides GOD lest you become extreme wrongdoers)". This would make perfect logical sense, woudlnt contradict the Message of the Quran in any way. Could easily be accepted as Quran. BUT it isnt. Get the point now?

JK- Alright please just answer the following questions and maybe somehting will click in your mind

a) How do you know what is part of the Quran and what isnt? How do you what the Quran even is? As i said people recite many Qurans in various different accents as well as vaiants in grammar which can be seen especially if we compare the hafs to the warsh RECITATIONS.

Tomayto Tomahto is still a Tomato
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVvyUKOwwwU

Likewise someone can try to change the easily memorized Do-Re-Me-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do.

Bismi Allhi Ar-Ramni Ar-Rami
Alif-Lam-Meem

To

Bismi Allhi Ar-Rami Ar-Ramni
Meem Lam Alif

All the 19 stuff remains unchanged, yet they?ll stand corrected by those who remember and Qur?an was/is preserved in recital, a commandment from God since beginning?

Certainly, We have made this easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember. (445
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5417)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5422)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5432)
And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember? (5440)

Please open separate topics for the rest of the why, why, why...

Peace

Jack

Sorry for the late reply, but Jonny K, Quran calls itself the book / al kitab???

Where?

22 doesn't have 'this', it has 'that' / thalik.

The Quran clarifies/details Al kitab/ the book, which ALREADY existed. (1037).

unknownuser

Let's not forget the books ingrained people's heads, and one last example

1132 has only 4 words = 4! (Factorial) = 4x3x2x1 = 24 sentences with the same code 19 values.

Below are only 3 of the possible 24; please try and tell us which is correct?

Min ma sharri khalaqa
From what evil He created

Min sharri ma khalaqa
From evil what He created

Min ma khalaqa sharri
From what He created evil

Likewise the last verse in al-Fatihah 17 has 9 words = 9! = 362,880 possible sentences.

Perhaps try scrambling/shifting the 70 or so words in inheritance verse 411 to view impact.

That's 70 ! = 1.19785717 ? 10^100 different possible sentences with same Geometrical Value!

http//www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&q=70%21

I believe this point is made clear.

Peace

unknownuser