Speech of God?

[cosmicdancer]

I made this video expressing some thoughts about the Qur'an

http//uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oKoEu8xS7nk

It's in Arabic and I made it late last night after putting the kids to sleep and didn't really plan it properly - and so I'm sorry I should have added subtitles.

Translation

Peace be upon you and the mercy of god and his blessing, today I will present a video in arabic and I want to speak a little bit about the Qur'an and I shall begin with some verses from it. (First few verses from sura yasin - my first son's name - )

Is this the speech of god or the speech of men? I used o believe that this is the speech of God but now I believe it is the speech of Muhammad and that god - if there is a god - does not send down books or send prophets, but all of this is from the imagination of man, even though they are sincere in their belief.

I was born Muslim and for 48 years I was a devout Muslim, but i the last few years doubts beset me. Doubts in the Qur'an, doubts in islam, doubts in everything, doubts in all that I used to believe in. I tried to push away these doubts, I , tried in every way, but they did not increase except in fury and extremity, and left nothing but questions.

How could the Merciful, the forgiving, say that he will torture those who don't believe in him, a torture that is permanent, everlasting, horrible, and frightening beyond all extreme. How can the gentle and the loving that it is allowed for a husband to hit his wife, how can the Peaceful, the Compassionate, 'kill the polythiests wherever one finds them!'

All these questions went around my conscience, and I couldn't find an answer that assured my heart or quietened my soul. Until I found no option but the conclusion that this is not the speech of God, but the speech of man, man from the 7th century, man who posses the mentality of his time andvthe thinking of his age.

So my associates friends said that the Qur'an is a miracle in it's language and it's style, and no one can challenge or bring the same as it. But this is a subjective opinion and not an objective one and depends on the view of the individual reading the qu'ran and depends upon his faith - or lack of faith.

Now, when I read the quran I see no reason to suppose this is the speech of god but I see many reasons to supose this is the speech of man.

Until we met again - peace be upon you.

[humandesign]

Cosmic dancer,

I think that with some of the quotes you have found in the Quran were originally mistranslated - according to the new translations provided in 'The Message' book.

In any case - sometimes you can either accept the reality or not - such as many people do suffer on the earth - even innocent people and many people who have wronged their souls do suffer or even don't suffer.......yet. In our eyes the world itself may not seem just.

But perhaps it is what is contained within us that matters most and perhaps how we apply the wisdom of the Quran to ourselves rather than testing the Quran concerning it's rules etc.

The Quran when revealed was primarily addressing a certain people of a certain culture at a certain time - though it does advocate for the truths for all of mainkind. If you want - it was the true hadith concerning those people to whom it was revealed. That does not mean that I must eat meat if I prefer not to eat it out of personal choice - same as with marrying 4 women. having slaves or otherwise.

And lastly - we can all have our own types of struggles wherever we may have been positioned to be in the world. It is hard to put ourselves in another's position and say what we woudl do or not do or how God woudl apply in our lives at that point - but in the end we must be busy with our own lives and what we see our our functions as it has been said in the Quran how each person will have been allocated their own goal to strive towards.

[Alen]

Peace,
Respectfully.

Trust God, Cosmicdancer, just trust God, God loves those who put their trust in Him.
Rely on God, because if you don't, you lose, if you do, you win.
Islam is easy, Quran is easy to understand, life is easy, this world is easy, people make it difficult.

May Allah The Most Merciful guide you on the Straight Path, brother.
God bless you.
Peace.

[pvb]

cosmicdancer- You sound very much in despair. Have tied praying to GOD to have your faith restored?

A prayer of comfort

Psalm 23
1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3He restoreth my soul he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

[AlFajr]

Peace be upon you,
You wonder why there is a punishment? Let me give you the honest answer. Simply, it is because many humans have choses misguidance over guidance

216 These are the ones who have purchased straying for guidance; their trade did not profit them, nor were they guided.

2175 These are the ones who have purchased straying for guidance, and retribution for forgiveness; they have no patience towards the Fire.

God has said he will give everyone enough signs to make a decision

4348 And every sign We showed them was greater than the one before it, and We seized them with the torment, perhaps they would revert.

7174 It is such that We explain the revelations, perhaps they will revert.

3221 And We will let them taste the worldly retribution before the greater retribution, perhaps they will revert.

4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?

When death occurs it is already too late

418 And there will be no repentance for those who commit sin until death comes upon one of them, then he says "I repent now!", nor for those who die while they are disbelievers. To those We have prepared a painful retribution.

2399 Until death comes to one of them, he says "My Lord, send me back."

1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said "I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted."
1091 Now you say this?, while before you disobeyed and were of the corrupters!
1092 This day, We will preserve your body, so that you become a sign for those after you. But most of the people are unaware of Our signs!

23100 "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind." No, it is but a word he is speaking. And there is a barrier to prevent them from going back until the Day they are all resurrected.

3537 And they will scream in it "Our Lord, let us out, and we will work righteousness instead of the works we used to do." Did We not give you a long life so that he who would remember would take heed, and a warner came to you? Therefore, taste, for the transgressors will have no supporter.

So those who die with this attitude

4524 And they said "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" And they have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture.

Surely they do not compare with those who said

3622 "And why should I not serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return?"

So ask yourself

4521 Or do those who work evil expect that We would treat them the same as those who believe and do good works, in their present life and their death? Miserable is how they judge.

Good and Evil are not the same. What do you think?

7317 So how can you be righteous if you have rejected, on a Day when the children become grey haired?

Do you still have a problem with the idea of a permenant hell?

4532 And when it was said "Surely God's promise is the truth, and there is no doubt about the coming of the Hour," you said "We do not know what the Hour is! We are full of conjecture about it; we are not certain."
4533 And the evils of their works will become evident to them, and the very thing they ridiculed will be their doom.
4534 And it will be said to them "Today We will forget you, just as you forgot the meeting of this Day. And your abode is the Fire, and you will have no helpers."

Remember that you are still alive, and have been given knowledge

2851 And We have delivered the message, perhaps they may take heed.

3829 A Scripture that We have sent down to you, that is blessed, so that they may reflect upon its verses, and so that those with intelligence will take heed.

6940 This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.
6941 It is not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
6942 Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
6943 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.

4523 Have you seen the one who took his ego as his god, and God led him astray, despite his knowledge, and He sealed his hearing and his heart, and He made a veil on his eyes? Who then can guide him after God? Will you not remember?

Don't be seduced by this worldly life

6130 "O you tribes of Jinn and humans, did not messengers come to you from amongst you and relate to you My revelations, and warn you of the meeting of this Day?" They said "Yes, we bear witness upon ourselves;" and the worldly life deceived them, and they bore witness on themselves that they were rejecters.

107 As for those who do not wish to meet Us, and they are content with the worldly life, and they became relieved with it, and they are unaware of Our signs.

751 The ones who took their system as amusement and games, and were preoccupied with this worldly life. Today We forget them as they forgot their meeting on this Day, and they did not heed Our revelations.

1024 The example of the worldly life is like a water which has come down from the sky, so it mixed with the plants of the Earth from what the people and the livestock eat. Then the Earth takes its shape and becomes beautiful and its inhabitants think that they have mastered it; then Our judgment comes by night or by day, so We make it a wasteland as if it never prospered by the yesterday! It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think.

[ayani]

brother, i have been having the same conflicts.

thanks to God i've seen this. it seems so odd that God would lead me to Islam, to the Quran, to this site, and then allow doubts to come. i know i am not a trinitarian. (sorry, pvb)

yet i disgust myself by how i speak to trinitarians (sorry again, pvb). and how dividing books can really be. and doctrines. yet we need guidance and crave guidance, and truth.

so... we will see. may God bless you, brother, and all who walk, who wander, who are firm, and who doubt.

[pvb]

No offense taken, but I do not care for the name trinitarian. It is so misunderstood by people- thniking that there are 3 divine beings, when there is only one true divine being-GOD. I am a believer in One True GOD that is UNITY in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

ayani - How do you know that GOD lead you to the Quran? What are your signs? proofs?

[UncleCasual]

In the name of God, most merciful, most compassionate.
Peace be with you.

You are starting to sound like a hadeeth, pvb.

First of all, I read your statement as,

I believe in a god, which is three parts, that consists of God, a son (supposedly Jesus) who is also a god, and the spirit of God.

First of all, WHERE is this god?

Peace be with you.

[ayani]

ayani - How do you know that GOD lead you to the Quran? What are your signs? proofs?

i'm really glad you asked this, sister.

i'm reminded of the verse that goes something like "they grasp, but they only go after what their minds form". Asad gives this verse the meaning of, man can not find solutions to his existential problems from within himself, or in ideas, or abstractions, but he must submit and trust in God, and invite God into his life.

my signs have been many. God does answer prayer. one example

one thing i struggle with is invasive thoughts. many of these invasive thoughts take the form of irrational, spiteful, hurtful thoughts towards others, which i would much, much rather have out of my scope of thought. i once opened the Quran on this issue, and was shown this

behold, thy Sustainer grants abundant sustenance, or gives it in scant measure, unto whomever He wills verily, fully aware is He of his creatures, and sees them all. 1730

in other words, dang it, we are all God's creatures, fantastically humble and small. so let us not take up pride against one another, and remember our humble origins in fluid, as the Quran says, and not speak about other what we can not know.

another remarkable verse relating to that trouble is this

God will not take you to task for oaths which you may have uttered without thought, but will take you to task for what your hearts have conceived for God is much-forgiving, forbearing. 2225

i was so happy and grateful to find this verse- it related exactly to the specific problem of what we may imagine without thinking or willing it, vs. what is in our hearts, and God's forgiveness and patience with us. that was a sign.

sister, i do believe that God wants to guide us, and that if we trust in Him and submit to Him, He will. the more i asked not for grand, inner truths or formulas, and the more i realized that God is great, and that we need Him, the closer i came to Islam. first going to jumma salat, then reading and studying, free-minds, and with all of that, more of a prayer life. perhaps God knows you would be best suited to Christianity, and wants to use you in that faith? only God knows.

so if they dispute with thee, say "i have submitted my whole self to God and so have those who follow me." and say to the people of the book and to those who are unlearned "do you also submit yourselves?" if they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, your mission is to convey the Message; and in God's sight are (all) His servants. 320

[pvb]

UncleCasual-

GOD is everywhere but not in everything. Father, Son and Holy Spirit - 3 manifestations of GOD working in unity, to reach man. These 3 are not partners but One True GOD.

ayani-I think many people deal with this problem- invasive, hurtful thoughts. I like to sing, have you tried singing to GOD when they start?

one of my favorite songs

Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

[Northuddin]

)

Nothing exists but God.

Idolatry itself can be described as God being somewhere, or nowhere.

[huruf]

I agree with Ayani, God answers... if you listen to Him. If you are listening to something else, you might not get his answer.

You cannot corner God and tell him how He should be or How He should talk. The way to listen is like Maryam I am here, Your will is all I want. In fact God talks to us non stop, we just get lost in noise. Silence, inner quietude, emptying ourselves so that the voice of God finds space to resound. Don't try too hard to get to something, rather stay back so that something gets to you.

I agre with Northuddin nothing exists, but God.

[Northuddin]

Yeah, I generally view that as a reason to follow my own intelligence.
And the Quran generally is that, intelligence written down, to be learned from.
Truth and consequence, seen through the eyes of an angel.