Dual nature of Quran?
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Unfortunately I have disposed of all notes I made when 'doing' the quran, and I really do not wish to spend time finding things back again.
That's because I feel I am done with books and now only follow my inner guidance combined with the only book god ever wrote himself nature.
3669 gives some indication but its not the verses i was referring to.
A knowledgeable imam will know where to find it.Yeah, there is another million or so nonsensical claims that clearly show prejudice and wishful thinking.
I stand by what I said about the quran itself explaining that its target group was limited to those who had not received/accepted the word yet. That meant in those days only Mecca and surroundings. Consult your iman for the relevant verses.
About the bible and my view on it
yes, it has been tampered with extensively, for political reasons.From the bible 20 books were removed, another 25 'corrected'.
The highest teachings survived nevertheless and are there for all eyes to see.
These teachings are from Jesus himself, he who according to the quran is the one who is going to save the world (Now in progress).
From this it follows that the (truth in the) bible is most definitely for all of humanity.
But again,the bible is not the truth but its wrappings.
(The same applies to the quran, but it deals more with rules and regulation in THIS life, for a limited target group)
In conclusion, I arrive to the opposite
the quran was/is for a limited group, the bible is for all of humanity.
But at least I supply the arguments to justify my conclusion.A free-minded person should be able to find his/her own truth, THANKS TO THE FACT that books are never (meant) to be 'conclusive'....the are meant to put your mind/spirit at work and so innerly find your truth.
Books and religions are not meant to present the undiluted and pure truth to you on a silver tray.
They follow this (biblical) rule- do not throw your pearls before the swines.
And we are asked to follow those - seek and ye shall find
- ask and ye shall be given.
Thusly, the swines will only find what they seek (simple reading) and the truthful seeker will find what is hidden within it.
- do not throw your pearls before the swines.
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The Holy Bible is conclusive in that we know it is from GOD.
It is inconclusive in that we learn something new everytime we read the Bible. Our understanding grows as the Holy Spirit guides us to learn new truths.
Why allow the 4 gospels to appear inconsistant? To pique our curiosity, delve in deeper and gain a richer understanding.
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That is just a rewording of what I said in the last paragraph of my previous message. Therefore correct. peace
It does however not exclude the possibility of harmful 'corrections'.The qualifications in my previous message (prejudice, wishful thinking) might be too harsh, the misunderstanding that the quran was meant for the whole world is mainly caused by a mistranslation.
The teaching is 'islam will conquer the world'.
Here, only 4 out of 5 words are translated into english. This causes the misunderstanding.
Islam means peace (trough surrender to god)
The correct translation therefore is 'peace will conquer the world'
This is entirely correct and the core of ALL religions, esoteric teachings, astrology etc. and has absolutely nothing to do with any religion that follows this universal knowledge.If your father had named you 'islam' the same erroneous thinking could have brought you many followers expecting YOU the save the wold.
What is happening now/soon is simply an enhanced functioning of our brain as a result of an astrological event.
Planet earth is entering a part of space known as the Allen Belt. It has a much different, higher, vibratory rate that results in profound changes in our mental apparatus. This will cause us to see the deception, see what must change, understand that creation is based on love, goodness and beauty, see that aggression, fear, conquering are its destructive opposites.
.This peace of info is not in any religious book, which proofs the danger of focusing on any one of them with the exclusion of others.
Personally, I denounced christiany at early age, only to discover its more or less hidden universal truths by 'doing' oriental religions.
And without this christian/oriental back ground I could have never understood the depth of the quran.
Which does not mean that I accept any of them for the full 100%. I don't.Truth will arrive, not trough intellectual effort, but because it is divinely ordained that planet earth is now entering an enlightening part of space, causing our brain to be updated. elektro hail
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No not exactly a rewording of your beliefs - I give all credit to the Holy Spirit guiding us to the new understandings.
anders have you ever read the Gospel in aramaic? I see noharmfulo corrections in the Holy Bible. I do see harmful translations in the Quran. I have come to think of reading the Quran as a Bible study guide,
Luke 21
25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
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anders have you ever read the Gospel in aramaic? I see noharmfulo corrections in the Holy Bible. I do see harmful translations in the Quran. I have come to think of reading the Quran as a Bible study guide,
Why should I? God gave me my language. It is bibliolatrists and their likes who get lost in languages. Truth transcends language.
You are no match for the dark forces who know how to deceive.
Don't look for lies, look for slightly bent truths and half truths, for the way it is said, for what is NOT said. The total of that is more than sufficient to keep the sheeple in bondage. This is the fate of all divine messages.I have tried a couple of times to get a fair and clear denunciation of verses (149 violent ones) that are simply not acceptable any more, but the best that blind followers of the faith were able to do is mumble something vague about context.
Still without fully admitting that such 'contextual' interpretation leads to a peaceful reading though.
I'd like to see an example of such creative reading where 'kill' becomes 'do never kill' .
I've given up.There is some merit in what you say about using the quran to better understand the bible. After all, the words of the man who according to the quran will save the world (Jesus) are in it.
It must have been divine influence that saved those words from the manipulating scribes.
Unfortunately its only the free minded who would do this, not the religiously programmed. -
anders - "You are no match for the dark forces who know how to deceive."
I agree completely and must therefore depend on the Holy Spirit to guide me.
Be careful searching through nature for GOD by yourself, as you said dark forces know too well how to deceive.
I mention aramaic because when you read in aramaic and then in english, my native language the true message of the Bible comes through. There is still way too much confusion about the understanding of what is revealed in the Quran.
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I am a bit baffled by you calling the Quran confused, and as if the bible was clear. The bible isn't even referred to as a book, it is a collection of books and letters, written over a very long period of time (many hundreds of years), by a large number of people, collected and pieced together by the official clergy of a fascist state, Imperial Rome. The tone of it's books range from genocidal (Exodus) to extreme pacifism that rejects even self defense (Matthew), the divine kings and prophets range from being highly debaucherous and promiscuous, to utterly celebrate. How can you call the Quran confusing? It doesn't have a fraction of this.
All you're left with is finding one of many possible meanings in the bible, and then doing the same thing as the Sunni Muslims - claiming your own highly contentious and contradictory meaning is the only possible correct one, and denouncing anyone who disagrees as a depraved heretic. Really, what's the point?
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Yes when reading the Holy Bible you do see extremes- but each Book is written for a specific time and place in the history of man.
002.062
YUSUFALI Those who believe, and those who follow the Jewish, and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
PICKTHAL Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
SHAKIR Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.003.085
YUSUFALI If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost.
PICKTHAL And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers. -
Dear All,
according to my understanding Quran is not of dual nature Nor it is created but it is sent down to a person to be delivered to the people. Now the problem comes when one tries to prove that it is from God. In that Muslims go to all means to prove it right and those who oppose do all to prove that it is not from him and this is all because of some misunderstandings created by few.
In my understanding Quran is message for Humans and not for specific group as claimed by the so called Muslims. Basic of Islam is given in verse 2-62 and that is 1. believe in one God 2. believe in final day or resurrection day. 3. do the righteousness but the problems arises when people start interpreting the signs which are unclear to give them specified meaning and that behavior starts the war.
I try to stand by the clear verses to avoid confusions. Example believing the Quran as words of God is my belief and not proof that it is the words of God. when I will try to prove it to be the word of God then the problem will start, so my strategy it to stick with my understanding but the problem with humans (me including) is that we want to prove that we are right which in other words is others are wrong.
My understanding is to understand Quran because my belief is that it is word of God. After reading Quran I reach to the conclusion that the best way to understand the complete understanding is to discuss rather than tell what is wrong or right.
To prove according to my belief that Quran is not created and sent is this
7517 it is for us to collect it and to promulgate it
7518 But when we have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated)
Regards.
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Christians have to have proof because we were warned by Jesus to beware of false prophets.
Matthew 7
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 24
4Jesus answered "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
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Dear pvb,
Do Christians had any prophet after Jesus?
Fruit of Prophet Muhammad era is known to everyone but if you compare it with today's versions and their interpretations then it is not prophets fault of what so called Muslims have made themselves today.
for Matthew 24 part. Muslims will not come in name of Christ so that is also closed for Muslims. So if Muslims are not going to come in the name of Christ then who will come? isn't they from the Christians?
Christians will be hated by all nations so that time is yet to come so end is not here and the Christians character will be like this then what it have to do with others? so that is also not regarding to prophet Muhammad.
Now the Muslims have closed the doors for any more prophets so that will be not from Muslims.
kindly explain what is "gospel of kingdom".
Regards.
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Yes there have been and will continue to be prophets- teachers of GOD's WORD, preachers that use GOD's Holy Bible. One you may know - Martin Luther. Billy Graham is also similar to a prophet bringing new understanding of Holy Bible.
I'm not sure what you mean by this statment - "and the Christians character will be like this then what it have to do with others?"
It is the Injil mentioned in the Quran, The Good News, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all together make up the Gospel of the Knigdom..
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Yes there have been and will continue to be prophets- teachers of GOD's WORD, preachers that use GOD's Holy Bible. One you may know - Martin Luther. Billy Graham is also similar to a prophet bringing new understanding of Holy Bible.
The sunnis, shiites, christians is having a hard time understanding what "NAVI" (Hebrew) or "NABIY" (Arab) actually meant..
Translating "NAVI"/"NABIY" as "PROPHET" is misleading and incorrect.NAVI = MOUTH OF GOD or through NAVI's mouth came out the words of God ...
"I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him."
Deuteronomy 1818The root nun-vet-alef ("navi" is based on the two-letter root nun-vet which denotes hollowness or openness;
to receive transcendental wisdom, one must make oneself ?open?.I don't think Martin Luther and Billy Graham is a NAVI or "God's mouth"..
Besides.. they never claimed to be one either..I'm not sure what you mean by this statment - "and the Christians character will be like this then what it have to do with others?"
It is the Injil mentioned in the Quran, The Good News, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all together make up the Gospel of the Knigdom..
The Quran didn't explicitly mention Matthew, Mark, Luke, John or other canonic (read authorized by religious authorities/clerics) books of gospel..
The Quran didn't explicitly mention all of other apocriphal (read not authorized by religious authorities/clerics) books of gospels..
The Quran didn't explicitly mention all of other apocriphal (read not authorized by religious authorities/clerics) jewish books..
The Quran does explicitly mention TORAH, PSALM as among of "God's books".
And the Quran does contains messages / stories previously found in BOTH of CANONIC and NON-CANONIC Christians and Jewish books..But since you're asking specifically about Gospel a.k.a "Good News"..
Here's the "Good News" all about according to Quran...."And convey good news to those who believe and do good deeds, that they shall have gardens in which rivers flow; whenever they shall be given a portion of the fruit thereof, they shall say This is what was given to us before; and they shall be given the like of it, and they shall have pure mates in them, and in them, they shall abide."
And the whole purpose / objective of sending the "Good News".
"And We send not messengers but as announcers of good news and givers of warning, then whoever believes and acts righteously, they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve. "Salam / Shalom / Peace
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the Injil that was available to Mohammad and mentioned in the Quran was the one he could hold between his hands is the same Gospel of Mathew, John, Luke and Mark that we have today
So one has to say I am a prophet and then he is???
Yes we know Christians will be and are hated by all of the world.
Matthew 7
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. -
It's not exactly the same - the Quran carries at least one story of Jesus that is only contained in the Gospel of St Thomas - suggesting St Thomas is part of the 'Injil'. I wish we could just dump that term and translate it properly to gospel.
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The oldest fragments of St. Thomas date to only 140 AD.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas
The Gospel of Thomas may have been excluded from the canon of the New Testament because it was believed to be
not have been written close to the time of Jesus
not have been written by apostolic authority or was forged in Thomas' name
not used by multiple churches over a wide geographic range
heretical or unorthodox -
But it may have been recieved spiritually, in the same way that St Paul spiritually recieved guidance from the church.
The Jesus seminar judges that the Gospel of Thomas is more reliable than the Gospel of John.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar#Overall_reliability_of_the_five_gospels
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I'm thinking of the story where Jesus breathes life into clay birds, which fly away - in the Quran 3.049 and 5.110 - and The Infancy Gospel of Thomas 21-5