The truth of Jinn

abdullah_m

It is good to see a variety of views displayed here.

ayani

Brother ~

thank you for writing on the jinn. when i first came to Islam, i was smugly aloof from the idea of jinn. but my ideas have changed.

i do believe now that much of what is attributed in the west to mental illness is what the Quran understands as jinn. things that the Quran has made clear, that which we should learn and set our hearts upon, the evil jinn will work to frustrate, unravel, or tug away from. these days i've been reading quite a few distress cries from Muslims suffering with anxiety and invasive thoughts, and the latter especially does make more sense to me as explained by the shaytan and by jinn.

our answers for this do not lie in medication or chemical altering of brain activity, but in patience, prayer, trust in God, and seeking His protection and help.

brother Abdullah, you mentioned the jinn of the NT. i do find that many liberal Christian churches will sound embarrassed about the mention of "unclean spirits", and almost apologize for Jesus and his contemporaries as they explain how we now understand this to be schizophrenia, tourettes, etc.

-[

Amin74

Salaam UC,

Thanks for the posts. I couldn't agree more. For example 37 which partially states "But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah".

This is a perfect example of how people have come to believe Jinns are spirits. If you look back at the verses posted in the argument you can see that there is not one verse that clearly says Jinns are spirits. NOT ONE. In fact most of them are saying that Jinn are men. Thanks again for that post. Allah is clear in telling us how people take a clear meaning and distort it like believing Jinns are spooks or spirits. Great stuff.

Verse 37 also confirms how people take allegories and expressions in Al Quran like this one from 2740 and take them literally.

2740
One who had the knowledge of the Book said I will bring it to you in the twinkling of an eye. Then when he saw it settled beside him, he said This is of the grace of my Lord that He may try me whether I am grateful or ungrateful; and whoever is grateful, he is grateful only for his own soul, and whoever is ungrateful, then surely my Lord is Self-sufficient, Honored.

Clearly this is a perfect example of people who "follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings". In the twinkling of an eye is an idiomatic phrase. Anyone who takes this literally, without providing evidence of its supposed literal meaning elsewhere in Quran, is causing discord. There is no evidence in that verse alone that that phrase should be taken literally. Even afterwards it says 'when he saw it settled beside him'. Here it gives no clue as to how much time has passed. To assume it happened in a second is just conjecture. All languages are full of idioms. Like when people say, "I'll be back in a second." Any intelligent person knows this is an allegory or idiom and not to be taken literally. Again good work on showing that verse.

Verse 5515 which tells us of what Jinn are made of is also taken care of in the article I have linked above. Hope you have read it all.

When I first heard of Jinns I was always told they were spirits. But after actually reading what Allah says about Jinns it is clear they are men. Living and breathing, flesh and blood on the earth like you and me. It is so clear in Al Quran. One has to really distort the meaning of the verses and/or follow Hadith to actually believe they are spirits. Even Arnold was closer with his idea that they were a symbol of the fiery side of humans but I showed where he made his mistakes here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13858.msg164834#msg164834
I even posted evidence from the Bible at that link which conforms with Allah's words that Jinn are men and not spirits or spooks.

So what is your opinion on the stuff I posted above about Salaat? Indeed the Jews used to pray like the Muslims do today as Salaat was given to Abraham.

Also did you read all the translations I posted of Mubin I posted above? Yes Iblis and his offspring are a CLEAR enemy to us because they are men. Jesus knew this also as is stated in John 8 in the Bible.

One other thing. You posted a link to verse 1587. What was the purpose of that?

Peace

UncleCasual

In the name of God, most merciful, most compassionate.
Peace be with you, abdullah_m, ayani, Amin74.

abdullah_m Variety of views?

Sister Ayani, I find the diagnosis "schizophrenia" to be limited, as it implies a divided individual only. And jinn goes beyond the individual.
But reading up on Carl Gustav Jung, who termed the phrase, http//no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_Jung
I can see that he has similar thoughts, to that of Islam.
Anima, Animus, may be our two angels, and his view of archetypes (spirits), are in concordance with the Quran, that they are pre-existent.
Ego vs Shadow, higher vs lower self(soul).
The collective unconscious.. hmm.. Tawheed? )
I also think the term "wiswas" (whisper) is closely related to "schizophrenia".
About evil jinn themselves.. I agree with Ayani, stay on the right path, regardless of whisper. And stay away from disbelievers.
It is also a medical issue. A controversial topic. Modern medicine has come a long way. It may help?

Amin74 If, by your logic, jinn are men, what do you then mean, wiswas(whisper) is, and where is the man to seek refuge from, when the Quran tells you to http//islamawakened.com/Quran/16/98/

Peace be with you.

Amin74

Salaam UC,

From verse 1698 it seems that Allah is definitely speaking of a specific personality namely Satan. See some of the translations from that link below.

Yusuf Ali - When thou dost read the Qur'an, seek Allah's protection from Satan the rejected one.

Pickthal - And when thou recitest the Qur'an, seek refuge in Allah from Satan the outcast.

Arberry - When thou recitest the Koran, seek refuge in God from the accursed Satan;

Khalifa - When you read the Quran, you shall seek refuge in GOD from Satan the rejected.

Free Minds - So, when you study the Quran, you shall seek refuge with God from Satan the outcast.

From the selections above it would appear that Allah is speaking about one individual and this Satan could very well be the same Satan mentioned in verses such as 234 and 711-18. (These verses are speaking of Adams creation and Iblis' refusal to bow to him as well as him being cast out.) But what I noticed about those verses and a number of others that mention the same event, in 5 different translations, it always uses the word Iblis and Satan is only mentioned in brackets. I believe Iblis is the actual name of the Jinn personality that refused to prostrate to Adam and was cast out. However the word Satan may have other connotations or meanings. This i am unsure of. But it is interesting that none of the translations at your link used the name Iblis when it speaks of who or what we need to take refuge from.

I would say that the 'satan' mentioned in 1698 may very well not be the same personality that is Iblis as mentioned in 234, 711 and many other verses which talk about the specific event of Iblis being cast out. What needs to be done is a comparison between such verses to see which Arabic words are used in each one.

If verse 1698 is talking about the specific personality Iblis it would still not refute the argument that Iblis was or is a man. For one thing, Al Quran does not detail much about Iblis except the fact that he was or is a physical being like a man on Earth. We do not know what capacities he maintains while here. Did he grow old and die? Does he contain Ruwh as Adam does? We know he has free choice and we know he had that capacity before he was on Earth. We know he was sent to Earth with Adam. We know he must have a body in the physical world. We know he has offspring and tribes. We know he and his offspring are the avowed enemies of Adam and his offspring. But their are still many unanswered questions, none of which are answered if we make unreasonable assumptions, without evidence, that Iblis and jinn are spirits or spooks.

A lot more research has to go into this.

Peace

Jack