Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
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Are you saying that this statement is false?- the original revelations were written on leaves, bones, whatever could be written on.
Now Bahman has me wondering!! Where is the original hand written Quran?
Peace pvb,
We could wait longer and may they find the Original. )
Avoiding chnaging topic I am tranfering my response in this tread to here.Salaam Bahman
You did not complete Ayman's sentence
The underlined phrase is the "masjid al-haram". It is not "made", whether of stone or anything else.
Peace Samia and thank you for your note. I am learning and sometime Iam slow, Now I understnd that Ayman means no phisical focal point just
the inviolable insitution of obedience,
Such obedience should be based on what source?
I see many stay away from this topic, they know as soon as they accept the Original was destroyed then their claim for protection has no more value and only way to prove such protection is Solid Code. God knows future and knew Satan will destroy the original but never could find secrect of 7 pairs up to the time this screen ready to display on www for those that are educated and are in search for truth not those that are not able to abondon their false learning.Peace )
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Peace
The original Qur'an is with God. It is said several times at the beginning of many Suras "This is the Scripture we have SENT DOWN" so the ORIGINAL is with God, The Lord of Mercy.
I have no idea where the first one on earth is, but it says in the Qur'an that"We gave it to you in gradual revelation."
2532This I believe allows ease of memorization, Arabic is a language designed for recitation. Arabs were reknowned for recitation of poems by heart. Muhammed (pbuh) memorised the Qur'an just as those believers around him. It has been memorised since.
Its pure guesswork to try and say where the first Qur'an is as if you were there or that it was burnt. But we do believe it had been memorised, Muhammed memorised it, people around him did (although it is no ones duty to preserve the Qur'an except God's). Faithful believers believe the Qur'an was preserved from this point on. Those who don't do not believe this is the case and it was open to corruption, do not believe in this Scripture and that it was God's duty to preserve the Qur'an. They are entitled to their opinion.
It is not through historical verification that I came to be one devoted to God. It is through the message in the Qur'an and the terrifying voice that resonates when I read it. I believe that is sufficient for me. "We hear and obey", Glory be to God.
Peace
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Peace
The original Qur'an is with God. It is said several times at the beginning of many Suras "This is the Scripture we have SENT DOWN" so the ORIGINAL is with God, The Lord of Mercy.
I have no idea where the first one on earth is, but it says in the Qur'an that"We gave it to you in gradual revelation."
2532This I believe allows ease of memorization, Arabic is a language designed for recitation. Arabs were reknowned for recitation of poems by heart. Muhammed (pbuh) memorised the Qur'an just as those believers around him. It has been memorised since.
Its pure guesswork to try and say where the first Qur'an is as if you were there or that it was burnt. But we do believe it had been memorised, Muhammed memorised it, people around him did (although it is no ones duty to preserve the Qur'an except God's). Faithful believers believe the Qur'an was preserved from this point on. Those who don't do not believe this is the case and it was open to corruption, do not believe in this Scripture and that it was God's duty to preserve the Qur'an. They are entitled to their opinion.
It is not through historical verification that I came to be one devoted to God. It is through the message in the Qur'an and the terrifying voice that resonates when I read it. I believe that is sufficient for me. "We hear and obey", Glory be to God.
Peace
Yes.
The best argument of any book is what it says, not what others say about it.
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the original revelations were written on leaves, bones, whatever could be written on.
How about paper/parchment/papyrus? This was in circulation since the ancient Egyptian civilization.
Has any excavatin found a bone or a stone with quraanic writing on it, or even non quranic from that era? -
http//www.biblefellowship.org/BibleAndLife/bibleandlife_2006_4.htm
"One of the Dead Sea scrolls found in cave #1 at Qumran dated at 125 B.C. contains the entire prophecy of Isaiah. This scroll was penned over 1,000 years before any of the manuscripts (Masoretic text) previously possessed."
There have to be original earth copies somewhere, unless Uthmann burned the wrong ones!!!
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Peace all,
Once again i must stress the point that code-19 defines the boundaries of the Quran. Ok say i prove statements of the Quran because they are scientifically accurate thus matching with reality and even prove the internal consistency of the Quran. BUT wht about the verses WHICH APPARENTLY do not match reality at any moment like there are 7 heavens or even that Idris, Saleh and Shuaib existed and did whats mentioned in the Quran for example? HOW do we know that is part of the Quran? How do we get the connection? To summarize if we say find out that verses a.b,c from different places in the Quran are correct and have been proven, how do we show that verses x,y,z are also whilst theyve not yet been proven? I say the only possible way is via MATHEMATICAL INDUCTION OR a CODE WHICH BINDS THEM ALL TOGETHER. GOD Bless! -
Peace again all,
To give you an example lets say somebody introduces/recites a verse after the 7th verse of sura 1, which now ends with "wa la dhaaleen", in the following way
"wa la ta'abudoona minallahi ahada fatakoona minal kaafireen" which translates as "and do no worship anyone besides GOD lest you become disbelievers/rejectors". Technically this verse would be correct and it would not contradict reality. INFACT neither would it contradict other parts of the Quran. SO WHY then wont we accept it as part of the Quran should we hear it like now? GOD Bless! -
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http//19.org/forum/index.php/m/20207/0/#msg_20207
Heres another thread in this regard where i analyse "hafs" and "warsh" versions. It is IMHO necessary that teh very least protection for the Quran to be considered so is the protection DOWN TO EVERY LETTER since there were 28 such available at the time of Muhammad and before each letter having a unique numerical value. Diacritical marks could be ignored becaue they dont have any numerical value, neither follow any standard of where they appear, and thus can never give an unambiguous count. As weve seen "hafs" and "warsh" have differences in letters and even at times whole letters/words are missing in warsh in between verses compared with hafs. Hence this manuscript mode cannot be considered protection and once again wer left only with a mathematical system which in this case has been based on no. 19. GOD Bless! -
Peace Bahman,
If the qur'an in my house was glowing with inner light, if it levitated to my desk whenever I sat down, and the pages turned automatically, and it had it's own built-in soundtrack that was different every day, yet the text I was reading was completely impractical and of no use, I wouldn't bother with it.
The authenticity of the text reveals itself through the application of the guidance within. I need no more than that. And if someone asked me what proof I had, I would say, "none", except my word.
Peace,
TayPeace,
Respectfully.Well, brother Tay, The Quran itself is the proof. I mean, no human back then at the time of revelation, could not have possible dreamt of the things to come. Those people at the time of the revelation of The Quran, would think of our cell phones, webcams and internet as magic, sorcery or jinn, maybe, i don't know.
They had stornger faith and they firmly believed.
Of course, they had miralces, which some had the honor of seeing it with their own eyes.
Like spliting of the sea, prophet Ibrahim walked out of the fire, .... and so on.Today, we have miracles of our own and The Quran is so strong, AlhamdilAllah, that we don't need bigger miracles then the verses from The Quran. As we all know, there are people who just read The Quran, maybe even one sura or a few verses and they get attracted, AlhamdilAllah, and they accept Islam, AlhamdilAllah. The Quran is stronger then we think. AlhamdilAllah.
Peace. jedi
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http//19.org/forum/index.php/m/20207/0/#msg_20207
Heres another thread in this regard where i analyse "hafs" and "warsh" versions. It is IMHO necessary that teh very least protection for the Quran to be considered so is the protection DOWN TO EVERY LETTER since there were 28 such available at the time of Muhammad and before each letter having a unique numerical value. Diacritical marks could be ignored becaue they dont have any numerical value, neither follow any standard of where they appear, and thus can never give an unambiguous count. As weve seen "hafs" and "warsh" have differences in letters and even at times whole letters/words are missing in warsh in between verses compared with hafs. Hence this manuscript mode cannot be considered protection and once again wer left only with a mathematical system which in this case has been based on no. 19. GOD Bless!Peace Dear Brother Khizer
I see you are back with more confidence 7431
God Bless. -
Peace
Of course, they had miralces, which some had the honor of seeing it with their own eyes.
Like spliting of the sea, prophet Ibrahim walked out of the fire, .... and so on.2106
When we abrogate any miracle, or cause it to be forgotten, we produce a better miracle, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that GOD is Omnipotent?
Peace -
Peace again,
I need to make a correction. i suspect hamza, or at least a substitute of what was later termed as hamza, was a LETTER during Muhammad's time. That would make the Arabic letter count 29 and the no of initialed surahs(initials ARE LETTERS and thus directly related to the alphabet) is also 29. Hamza has shown significant roles in the mathemtical pattern and thus i cannot ignore this important relation either. A discovery related to hamza is
"Al-Quran al-kareem" though not found in this particular form in the Quran(it does mention "quranun kareem" in 5677) we can be justified in adding the prefix "al" because as youll see it relates to the phrase "allah ar-rahman ar-raheem". YES both phrases "al-quran al-kareem" and "allah ar-rahman arraheem" have the SAME GV = 684 which is ALSO a XPLE OF 19. This is only the case if "Quran" is spelled with "hamza" and the GV of the hamza is "1" just like alif. So call it "hamza" or call it some unique alif like letter, it mustve been there and some sort of dotting/spacing back in Muhammad's time must be the justification for its presence just like the verse nos. GOD Bless! -
Peace everyone,
Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
The very title of this thread is very revealing. In philosophy, one can gain as much knowledge from the question as from the answer. In this case, we can learn very clear facts about the mindset of the questioner.
This question is like asking "Why are Martians green?" The questioner has an answer in mind and is expecting you to answer something like "because they eat lots of spinach" or something like that. Of course, the real question is "how do you know that there is such a thing as Martians in the first place?"
So the question to Bahman and Code 19ers is "how do you know that these unique versions of the Qur'an were later destroyed by fire in the first place?" The answer is of course, the same way they found out that 9128-129 were added to the great reading HADITHS. They then work backwards to justify their HADITHS-based preconceptions. They believe in HADITHS and in their CODE 19 more than they believe in the god's promise that no falsehood would enter the great reading.
Remember that 7430-31 tells us "the count/counting of 19 is nothing except a "fitna" (attractive temptation) for the disbelievers". So it is not surprising that we find empirical verification of this fact in the attitude of those who don't really believe in what 7430-31 is saying.
As for early "versions" of the great reading, they are not unique. In fact, all the ancient manuscripts of Chapter 9 in existence have 9128-129. Here is an example that everyone can verify with their own eyes
http//www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/visite/sanaa/image1/066049C.jpeg
The radiocarbon dating of the above manuscript suggests a date of about 657CE to 690CE at the latest.
Also, Bahman and other Code 19ers might want to check an even earlier manuscript that is estimated to date to the first half of the 600s CE in Biblioth?que Nationale, Paris, Folio 44b. This folio shows 9121 - 9129, 101 - 102.
Peace,
Ayman
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So the question to Bahman and Code 19ers is "how do you know that these unique versions of the Qur'an were later destroyed by fire in the first place?" The answer is of course, the same way they found out that 9128-129 were added to the great reading HADITHS. They then work backwards to justify their HADITHS-based preconceptions. They believe in HADITHS and in their CODE 19 more than they believe in the god's promise that no falsehood would enter the great reading.
Peace.
7431 )
My topic is copy of this
Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
Show us your response to claims in that site, No mention of 9-128-129 )
Peace -
Peace Bahman,
My topic is copy of this
Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
Show us your response to claims in that site, No mention of 9-128-129The claims on the site are all based on false Hadiths. At least it is good that you are now trying to distance yourself from those claims.
Peace,
Ayman
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At least it is good that you are now trying to distance yourself from those claims.
Peace Ayman
I am not distancing myself from the truth, I am bringing attention of truth seekers to facts. Now we witness such superhuman interlocking security design exposing the fraud and fabrication of those 2 verses.
All you need to understand such greatness is understand how to use +/-x, unless you with you phd in mathematic can produce one of those.
Just show us if you can do it then of course your work would be considered as smart work of this creature, hence those orders and verse numbers have been recorded 19 years after prophet passed away, by the remind you that such order has been locked into table 23 which I consider it another Miracle when none of these Mathematician could design such table.It was 7 years ago I started to find if any body can design one like it.
One of those PHD holders tried for days and hours using special math CAD and could not go more than 17 number (chapters).
How about you as a mathematician in this forum may can do it. Just try it and see how much knowledge you have. Then we consider your claims.
Peace -
...The question to Bahman and Code 19ers is "how do you know that these unique versions of the Qur'an were later destroyed by fire in the first place?" The answer is of course, the same way they found out that 9128-129 were added to the great reading HADITHS. They then work backwards to justify their HADITHS-based preconceptions. They believe in HADITHS and in their CODE 19 more than they believe in the god's promise that no falsehood would enter the great reading...
This is a very interesting concept, and it is very true. The assumption that the early versions of Al-Qur'aan were destroyed by fire is completely based on hadeeths, and that's not sufficient enough to make it true. The early versions may not have even been actually destroyed at all - it could have easily been falsely prescribed, just like so many of the other hadeeths we see floating around...
Peace.