So does your version of Salaat satisfy ..Sakara or not?
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Peace be upon you,
I have written a few responses in salaat thread today that should help you understand my position more. Let me know if they dont
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Peace be upon you,
I have written a few responses in salaat thread today that should help you understand my position more. Let me know if they dont
Hi God within,
I agree with you about the subconscious and all, but Salaat.....well that I think is a common sensical thing people do all over the world and even animals may do it with a wink and a nudge.
So here is what it means i think- 100%.
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O ye who believe! Don?t take to counsel while you are in sleep/anger/shock/fear/grief/intoxication till you are capable of taking on board what is said???God be with you Br.
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Peace be upon you Simple,
I agree with you about the subconscious and all, but Salaat.....well that I think is a common sensical thing people do all over the world and even animals may do it with a wink and a nudge.
Thats just it, people DO program themselves....or GET PROGRAMMED BY OTHERS....all over the world. ;D Theats why God says "Woe to those who salaat but are unaware of thier salaat". You see what I am getting at?
WHy do you act the way you do while you neighbor acts the way they do? Because you both grew up a certain way, seeing and hearing certain things, some the same some different.
Regarding animals, I dont see anywhere that animals must maintain the salaat(programming)...but there is a comment on birds flying in a row (take a moment to think about how perfect they fly together, making perfect turns as if someone is guiding them). The verse says they know thier salaat(PROGRAM). It is the human that can AND HAS deprogrammed themselves because the human is free, everything else is restricted to law. They have no real choice, it is the human that if free to disobey God, and must reprogram thierselves.
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Salaams Br,
You cannot blame the programming for our evilness.If you did we arn't to blame for it therefore no punishment is due- for majority in this case.
The quran isn't about why we do what we do, but about what we should do, thus we will be held to account and again salee is nothing at all to do with programming but to do with what we aim, desire or think is right to do.
Salee is about the path we want to follow.
Remember a lot of the people are going to hell because of their salaat, because of what they choose for themselves and others and not for their programming.
peace
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Peace be upon you Simple,
You cannot blame the programming for our evilness.If you did we arn't to blame for it therefore no punishment is due- for majority in this case.
The programming is always the blame, but that does not take us off the hook because we are RESPONSIBLE for the programming. Woe to the programmers who are heedless of thier programming! Another verse...He who purifies the nafs(subconcious) succeeds, he who corrupts it fails. So the control of the nafs is our job and it is that which we are judged upon. So yes, if we allow our subconcious/nafs to be corrupted and bring forth evil, rather than reprogram it and bring forth purification (salaat and zakaat), then the corruption it brings forth is our fault. One of the messengers was asked..
1187 ?O Shuaib, does your ?salat? order you that we leave off what our fathers served or that we leave off doing with our property what we like.?
You see, our spirits ORDER US based on what we put in it(salaat). If you put in a certain program, that is what the computer will do.
The quran isn't about why we do what we do, but about what we should do, thus we will be held to account and again salee is nothing at all to do with programming but to do with what we aim, desire or think is right to do.
Its not about WHY we do what we do? If you dont know why you do what you do, how in the world can you CHANGE what you do? Respectfully that doesnt make much sense to me. The God does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in thier Nafs. I have given the same verses over and over again that show that programming of the nafs is the most important work. If you disagree I can only respect your decicion to do so.
Salee is about the path we want to follow.
siraltal mustaqeem is the maintained path, not salaat.
Remember a lot of the people are going to hell because of their salaat, because of what they choose for themselves and others and not for their programming.
There are people in the fire (hell is never mentioned) right now because they are not those who program thier subconcious, instead they just allow their conditionings to run rampant and have the slogans "well thats just me, I can do anything about it, you just have to accept me for who I am..." and other such illogical statements that do not prove true.
You can choose a lot of things for yourself and others, but only when these choices get planted in the soil of the mind and take root do they manifest in life.
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Salaams Br,
You see, our spirits ORDER US based on what we put in it(salaat). If you put in a certain program, that is what the computer will do.
Of course you can try and put good things into your subconscious, but irrespective of what is in there we can make people do good- by laws and accountability.
So its not that we always do what is in there. You have got to agree here.
Even a thief, a rapist can be made to do well ? irrespective of what his subconscious want him to do.
So although the programming is good it?s not a necessity for the good of mankind or ones-self, you cannot blame it.
A woman used to sell herself cannot be held accountable for her programming, for that may be the way she was brought up or did such out of necessity, but she must be held accountable for her deed to change her programming ? if indeed it may be faulty of which if I may say no one knows but her God.
siraltal mustaqeem is the maintained path, not salaat.
Yes I am saying likewise but salaat is talking about, discussing, and accepting a new siraltal mustaqeem which changes, becomes more sophisticated with the times.
The quran isn?t about why we do what we do, irrespective of that it is about changing our natures willingly or by compulsion to be good citizens/ righteous.
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Re God Within
I've talked to someone before who has views similar to yours. He believed that there's no actual residence of Heaven and Hell - they are mental states, not physical. He too spoke of 'salaat' as being a form of personal conditioning, used to connect our spirit to Ar-Rahmaan. And he also adamantly believed that Al-Qur'aan is not literal, it's metaphorical... Is this what you believe? I see you have a lot of viewpoints that are similar to his...
Peace.
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Peace be upon you Simple,
Of course you can try and put good things into your subconscious
Not "try", we CAN put seeds into the subconcious. There is a scientifically proven method of doing do that involves going to that state between awake and sleep (merging of day and night)
but irrespective of what is in there we can make people do good- by laws and accountability.
We can? I believe the United States has the most people in jail and maybe gun deaths. How has more laws and penalties "made" people change? How many more masjids and churches need to be built and more sermons need to be listened to? Spiritulity is about shaping behavior and there is a science to changing your behavior.
So its not that we always do what is in there. You have got to agree here.
Even a thief, a rapist can be made to do well ? irrespective of what his subconscious want him to do.
There is a verse that says something like "they say they believe when they are with you, but when they are alone with thier shaytaan(emotions), they say "I was always with you""....something like that, you familiar with the verse I am talking about? Sure, we can phsically stop a thief or rapist by physically restricting them like in jail, but UNLESS they decide while in jail to replace the incorrect thoughts about life with correct thoughts (reprogramming), then when they come out they will continue to manifest wicked behavior. How many times does the drug addict leave rehab and go back to smoking crack? Although he/she definately wants to stop, SOMETHING pushes him or her, something seduces him/her. WHat kind of companion are you with? One that seduces to right or wrong?
So although the programming is good it?s not a necessity for the good of mankind or ones-self, you cannot blame it.
Thats like saying that programming is not necessary for a computer. We DO what we LEARN. Yes, he blame is on the programmer, not the program, but it is the programmers job to change the program. But for many it must start with realizing the truth and difference about the programmer and the program. Many identify with the program, and are not even aware that they realy are the programmer.
A woman used to sell herself cannot be held accountable for her programming, for that may be the way she was brought up
So if you were brought up eating pork and you learned that pork is bad for you , etc...will you be held accountable for your heart attack from poor eating if you decide not to stop? I notice you said she "USED TO" sell herself. Why did she stop? Could it be that she knew she was accountable for her actions, which are dictated by the subconcious(nafs)? Didnt Musa tell some people to KILL THIER NAFS? WHy?
or did such out of necessity, but she must be held accountable for her deed to change her programming ? if indeed it may be faulty of which if I may say no one knows but her God.
No one knows but God if prostitution is incorrect? Wel, certainly if she "USED TO" do it she intuited the knowledge that it is wrong and made the changes in her spirit(nafs).
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siraltal mustaqeem is the maintained path, not salaat.Yes I am saying likewise but salaat is talking about, discussing, and accepting a new siraltal mustaqeem which changes, becomes more sophisticated with the times.
So when God says that that the malakiah came to Zakariah while he was alone maintaing salaat(programming his spirit), how could he have been "talking about, discussing, and accepting a new path"?
The quran isn?t about why we do what we do, irrespective of that it is about changing our natures willingly or by compulsion to be good citizens/ righteous.
Yes, its about CHANGING, but if you dont know how you operate, how can you change? Compulsion does not make real lasting change. P person who is told they should stop smoking or die will stop due to another emotion called fear, but later might start again when they dont see death coming fast enough. So this message absolutely deals with the WHY. If I have a calculator that is programmed to add 7 to every number that I enter, and I want to CHANGE that to 1, dont I need to know how the calculator operates to do that? Doesnt a doctor need to know how the body operates to make changes to it? Or the weight lifter? How can the WHY not be addressed? Were we sent with operating instructions? Perhaps thats what this message is? I would contemplate that for a while.
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Peace be upon you Ahmad Bilal,
Yes, that sounds the same as me for the most part. If you are refering to "idolfree1" from this forum then that is me. If you are talking about someone else, then please tell me who that is. I would like to meet this person.
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Salaams Br,
Not "try", we CAN put seeds into the subconscious. There is a scientifically proven method of doing do that involves going to that state between awake and sleep (merging of day and night)
Where may I find the details of this Scientific method?
We can? I believe the United States has the most people in jail and maybe gun deaths. How has more laws and penalties "made" people change? How many more masjids and churches need to be built and more sermons need to be listened to? Spiritulity is about shaping behavior and there is a science to changing your behavior.
How? Law and penalties are the only things in the world controlling the baddies not to be animals.
Talking and listening to people- undertaking counsel is the only way. When people know they and their rights are being looked into then the majority do the same in return- and I think that is what the quran envisages.
???they will continue to manifest wicked behavior?.
Yes they probably will, there will always be people right and wrong to some degree, unfortunately, but as you are aware childhood is the best time for programming the bio-computer.
Yes, its about CHANGING, but if you don?t know how you operate, how can you change? How can the WHY not be addressed? Were we sent with operating instructions? Perhaps that?s what this message is? I would contemplate that for a while.
People don?t have the time to contemplate, I might you might but that is probably 2 from 10,000 or more?
Ask the tens of thousands of people in Africa Should they ask why or get to some work???it?s similar the world over.
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Peace be upon you Simple,
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Not "try", we CAN put seeds into the subconscious. There is a scientifically proven method of doing do that involves going to that state between awake and sleep (merging of day and night)Where may I find the details of this Scientific method?
Do a search on brainwave patterns, specifically Alpha and Theta brain wave patterns. Also search for nuerons. But the best "science" is your YOU to do the experiment yourself. Hearing something and experiencing it are worlds apart.
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We can? I believe the United States has the most people in jail and maybe gun deaths. How has more laws and penalties "made" people change? How many more masjids and churches need to be built and more sermons need to be listened to? Spiritulity is about shaping behavior and there is a science to changing your behavior.How? Law and penalties are the only things in the world controlling the baddies not to be animals.
Wrong, they are still manifesting animal nature INSIDE jail. There is still violence, drug use, prostitution/homosexuality, etc going on. So how are the man made laws and penalties effecting human behavior? Life experience does not coincide with those ideas.
Talking and listening to people- undertaking counsel is the only way.
Again, how many more masjids and churches and synongues need to be built? There is constant taling and listening and counsel given at those places, but no effect on behavior. This tells us that we are not applying the right technology. Yes, everyones intentions are good, but we are not finding the way to effect the NAFS. And it is the NAFS that we must purify to succeed and if we corrupt we will fail. And it is the NAFS that we must change before God changes our conditions.
When people know they and their rights are being looked into then the majority do the same in return- and I think that is what the quran envisages.
I did not understand that statement can you elaborate?
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???they will continue to manifest wicked behavior?.Yes they probably will, there will always be people right and wrong to some degree, unfortunately, but as you are aware childhood is the best time for programming the bio-computer.
Yes, that childhood state of receptivity is the best for programming, and it is this state we get into when we master going into the meditation state. Just like a child can put its feet in its mouth, when we get older we dont use our flexibility and we loose it, but it can be regained through patience and programming of your limbs through Yoga and such techniques. Its kind like the statement, We are God's and to God we are RETURNING. We are all in a process of returning to our natural state. We have to remove/purify all the conditionings we picked up in life that keep us from putting our toes in our mouths ;D
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Yes, its about CHANGING, but if you don?t know how you operate, how can you change? How can the WHY not be addressed? Were we sent with operating instructions? Perhaps that?s what this message is? I would contemplate that for a while.People don?t have the time to contemplate, I might you might but that is probably 2 from 10,000 or more?
Ask the tens of thousands of people in Africa Should they ask why or get to some work???it?s similar the world over.
If you dont ask WHY then you will be a slave to those who KNOW WHY and use it against you. Simple as that.
The WHY is connected to the HOW, and thats what we want to get to. The WHY gives you PURPOSE, and with no purpose you cannot fan your desire to get motivated.
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Peace be upon you Ahmad Bilal,
Yes, that sounds the same as me for the most part. If you are refering to "idolfree1" from this forum then that is me. If you are talking about someone else, then please tell me who that is. I would like to meet this person.
Peace.
I wasn't specifically speaking of someone on this forum - I was talking to someone I see day-to-day. He seems to have the same concepts and ideologies that you have regarding the interpretation of Al-Qur'aan. I just wanted your opinion on the matter. Thanks...
Peace.
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Peace be upon you Ahmad,
You should tell him to come on the forum.
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Peace be upon you Ahmad,
You should tell him to come on the forum.
Peace.
I'll see if I can locate him and tell him about the site. He'll probably find it pretty interesting...
Peace.