What are the Furtherst Mosque and the Sacred Mosque (17:1)
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This is a reply to a fellow believer in our discussions on Hajj, the Kaaba and our qiblah. It is my first post, so if I am trangressing with any of the mores here, please let me know so I may correct my conduct.
Peace be unto you, brother!
Surah 37. Please pray for guidance from God and read this Surah, then follow me along the path shown to me according to the Quran and Scriptures.
Keep in mind I'm coming from the luciferian syncretism instituted by the GREAT WHORE, BABYLON as well as her harlot daughters. And being a white male with blue-eyes of Scottish-American descent, I don't have the Nation of Islam hadiths as the foundation for my faith. To be blunt, I am thankful I've come from the lies of the deceiver's Church, as it has instituted a deep seated mistrust in anything taught by man. It is up to me to search the Word of God found in the Quran, along with patience and prayer, to ensure I am not led astray. I am not a guardian to anyone but myself. As well, I can take the teachings of men given to me, so I may temper the Sword of Truth in the forge of God's Word to find the righteous path and discredit the liars and false-teachings expose the teachings of satan for what they are. Deception.
"The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakkah, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds. In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from the people to make Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds." Surah 396-97
Surah 3159
We are taught in the Quran about making circuits around the House Surah 2158, 2226,29
There are many who say a 'ley line' or 'point of grace' is at the Kaaba, which when looked from above matches the kaballah; take Allah out of the kaballah and what do you get?
Research via Google Maps and searching for Ley Line Maps points to one in Bakkah in Sudan. Coincidence that a 'ley line' or 'line of power' rests at Bakkah in Sudan or at the Kaaba depending on who you consult? I think not. With no mention in the Quran concerning this metaphysical garbage, I throw it out as New Age mysticism and heresy. Another tool of the deceiver to turn believers from the face of God.
As well, the The Sphere, which rested between the WTC prior to its destruction, was intended to be a humanistic kaaba in competition of the Kaaba in Mecca. This Sphere was featured in the movie 'Oz' starring Diana Ross and Michael Jackson, and in the film the inhabitants of Oz were circling the sphere in a manner akin to the Kaaba in Mecca. The sinister origins of the name Oz stem from Crowley and a diabolical tome written under the guidance of a demon bearing the name. /spit
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sphere
Again, the Scriptures stating that Abraham walked through the Middle East and settled NORTH of Mecca is strong; even tours are available for people who wish to 'walk the path of Abraham'. This though is further reason why I detest the traditions of men; they are so rife with suspicion all is suspect and must be clarified through research, study, and patient prayer.
According to Scripture, the Egyptians captured the Isrealites and made them slaves. With Bakkah south near Egypt, and with Ishmael and Hagar 'crying' for relief this Valley of Tears resounds with possibilities. As Ishmael and Hagar were forced into exile and traveled for sometime in the wilderness, Sudan is very far from the areas of their brethren; so far so that to see them settling in Sudan seems highly unlikely. Recall Ishmael and Hagar were expelled at the behest of Sarah, wife of Abraham. Judaism paints Ishmael in a horrid light, and I believe this is due to the blessings of Abraham's seed, ALL Abraham's seed, and Imram's line would be the line of the New Covenant (Surah 333-36). The Hebrew Bible says Ishmael was the progenitor of the 12 Tribes after marrying an Egyptian; again north-west of Mecca. Knowing the Zionist Jews are satanists, awaiting the Son of David (their antichrist Mark 1235-37. Even the wicked Canaanites, cursed descendants of Ham, under the teachings of the Pharisees (Mat. 2333) thought him the son of David and proclaimed him as such. Mat. 1522), I can understand the emnity towards the lines of Ishmeal and Imran. Here was a man of God who was thought of as their Jewish antichrist, yet was not and leading people to the Truth of God.
"Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not." John 1150 The Pharisees knew what Jesus was here for, and in trying to murder him, they tried to prevent the breaking of the Old Covenant. Remember satan has dominion over the kingdoms of man until God's return, and could give it to Jesus as shown in Scriptures. With Jesus saying 'No' to satan, we cannot think the serpent was quiet in the time Jesus taught among men. Mat. 410
It is ironic how the sun-god worship given on Sunday is not towards God, but to the antichrist Son of David. The more I read and study, the more I'm guided to how pervasive the doctrine of syncretism has beguiled the whole of the world. I get so angry at the deceiver, e'en though that creature is doing God's work to find those who love God and obey Him, yet I see my own family caught under this trap and know they too will be deceived when the antichrist assumes the mantle in Isreal. >
However, we have to note that the line of Imran (Amran), of which Jesus is the cornerstone through his lineage with Mary, is the Arab lineage The start of the New Covenant with muslim believers. If I recall correctly, the lineage of Muhammad is traced through the mothers, not the fathers. I will have to get back to you on that, yet the Truth remains Muhammad is of the line of Imran. I will need to read further to discover if this line passes from Ishmael or from Zimran. If you have any Scriptural/Quran references it would be appreciated.Don't let that fact distract you from the fact that mankind is one nation, and Jesus' New Covenant is the cornerstone for this nation Worship God and only God; associate no partners to God. Need I say that God loves the benevolant?
I derail my train of thought with a tangent. I apologize and will continue.
According to Scriptures, the first altar to God created by Abraham was in the land of Canaan. "And the Lord appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land and there builded he an altar unto the Lord, who appeared unto him. And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west and Hai on the east and there he builded an altar unto the Lord, and called upon the name of the Lord." Gen. 127-8
"Originally called Luz (Gen 2819), Bethel (lit. "house of God" was located on the north-south Ridge Road ("The Patriarch?s Highway" at the crossing of the east -west route between Jericho and Aphek."
Yet take note, according to the Quran, the first House was purified by Abraham and Ishmael! Surah 2125
After Abraham's exile by the Pharoah, Abraham went south. "And he went on his journeys from the south even to Bethel, unto the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Hai." Gen. 133
The traditional location of Bethel is Jericho, which is NORTH of the Dead Sea. Being in/near the land of Canaan in early times, and as the initial conflicts with Lot and the inhabitants of Canaan are written in Gen. 13; the division of the east and west between Lot and Abraham, which includes Jerusalem in Abraham's land. This all occurs North of Mecca.
Keep in mind Sarah was a foolish woman. She laughed when she heard God say she would have a son, even in her old age. Seems no coincidence that the offspring of Isreal would be of the bloodline that would become the Pharisees of the Old Covenant. The wicked of heart always are apparent in God's Word.
"And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar." Gen. 201http//www.keyway.ca/htm2003/20030203.htm
Abraham and Ismeal went together, for it was during this resettlement that Hagar and Ishmael were cast out at the behest of Sarah.
Hagar and Ishmael are cast out in Gen. 21, and during their flight in the wilderness Hagar weeps when they run out of food and water. God provides for them, and later Hagar finds Ishmael a wife from Egypt. "And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt." Gen. 2119-21
http//www.bibleplaces.com/wilderness.htm
Please take note that of these areas, only the wilderness of Paran is near Mecca. As to is the Well in Mecca, according to tradition. Again, Abraham is not with Ishmael.
If you continue reading, also take note Gen. 252 "And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah." A hebrew name for the lineage of Imran/Amran? The Jews of the Old Covenant from Isreal, 12 Kingdoms from Ishmael, and the New Covenant from Zimran? Worth more prayer and study, for certain!
Now the Canaanites, descendants of Ham, were declared haraam to Isaac, so he was given Rebekah throught God's guidance.
Now the final piece to this puzzle, in my mind and heart, is Ishmael.
"And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as though goest toward Assyria and he died in the presence of all his brethren." Gen. 2518
http//www.hlinc-zionsake.org/israel-boundaries/wilderness.jpg
Also in the wilderness of Paran. But Ishmael was sent here in exile by way of Sarah. He was not with Abraham during this time.
I'm still researching, yet based off of my own study of the Quran, Scriptures, and the geographical locations, Mecca contains the Kaaba, which is NOT the Bakkah Abraham created. I cannot in good faith pray towards the Sacred Mosque in Jerusalem (Al-Aqsa) either; I do not pray in worship of the Mosque, instead I turn my face towards God in the direction of His Messenger to show I follow the teachings of Muhammad. Surah 2115
"Therefore glorify Me, I will make you eminent, and give thanks to Me and be not ungrateful to Me." Surah 2152
Jesus didn't pray toward a Mosque in the garden, for certain.
Remember Muhammad turned his face to heaven. And as Surah 2226 shows, it was not Muhammad that purified the house, it was Abraham. Inside the Mosque in Jerusalem people walk around the inside reading Scripture verse and Surahs. But it isn't a place where only God is revered, for Christians go here as well; Christians still under the thrall of luciferian doctrine. And according to the history of Al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock, Abraham did not create either one of these buildings.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_of_the_RockAs well, the current State of Isreal is seeking to undermine the foundation to destroy Al-Aqsa, preceding the arrival of the antichrist.
Until I further study the Quran and what is given to us therein, I cannot go against the teachings of the Quran God is my qiblah. I do not know if a mosque is there in Bakkah, Jordan. Nor is there any indication that I should changing my direction from God or be making a pilgrimage to either place, in Jerusalem or to Mecca. And I'm reminded of the righteous path God sets before me. God does not change. "What has turned them from their qiblah which they had?" say the fools. The East and the West belong only to God, and God is in ALL. If I go anywhere, I will be visiting the area north of the Dead Sea to see if any remnant of Abraham's house still stands. Perchance a bit of adventure before the Tribulation begins?
"He it is Who has revealed the Book to thee; some of its verses are decisive - they are the basis of the Book - and others are allegorical. Then those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead, and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. And none knows its interpretation save Allah, and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord. And none mind except men of understanding." Surah 37
We get the command to point towards Mecca from hadiths and traditions. Mecca is said to be created by Ishmael's descendants, not Abraham.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca
Surah 2143-147 bears witness to the commands of God. "And We did not make that which thou wouldst have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follow the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels. And it was indeed a hard test except for those whom Allah guided...
Turn then thy face towards the Sacred Mosque (House of God, His Temple, our body, looking to the Throne of our heart where God is seated, not our own idols of the heart found in carnal materialism). And wherever you are turn your faces towards it. (Not the metaphysical 'The Secret - God is You' crap, turn your spirit to God, the All Mighty, the Creator, the Magnificent.) And those who have been given the Book certainly know that it is the truth from their Lord.
And even if thou shouldst bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow their quiblah, nor canst thou be a follower of their qublah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowedge that has come to thee, then thou wouldst indeed be of the wrongdoers.
The truth is from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters."Muhammad worshipped God, not a building. He looked to the heavens seeking God's enlightenment and Truth, not to a structure filled with idols. It is indeed a hard test. I pray to God, All Mighty, All Knowing, I passed the test, and thank God for His guidance. Thy will be done.
I hate the traditions of men, most assuredly. They cloud the Truth. >
However, with patience, prayer, and study, we surely will be guided to follow God's will.
Hope this helps with your own research and study. If you have anything to provide that would refute my studies, or further guide me along the righteous path, I humbly seek the opportunity to read the Surahs and verses given to me. Do not be alarmed if it takes time before I respond. I have found only through patience and prayer am I led towards Truth. God teaches me to rid myself of my impetuous and instant gratification manner, praise be to God!
We are told to read the Scriptures and Torah, using the Quran to guide us and verify the Truth.
Surah 291, 299, 32-4, 3184, 384, 4136, 566-68, 6154-155, 1037, 12111, 1856, 2848-49, 2946-47, 4215-16I see no facing of direction in either the Torah or Scriptures, but I do see all God's Prophets turning their eyes to the Heavens seeking God's will.
Soooo... I must ask you, is your house a Sacred Mosque for God? Are there images or idols inside that take away from God? I personally have been destroying idols from my own life statuettes for comic book heroes, decorative toys, movie/comic book posters, and objects of affection based on the creations of man, not God. My house is God's House, may He allow me to die a believer. Part of my conversion is clearing out this trash so God knows only He is in my heart, and no other idol of man will reside there.
Can we not turn our own homes into Sacred Mosques, where we may pray and worship in sincere obedience to God? Where we may pace circuits while reading from the Holy Quran?
Something to consider.
May God guide you and send blessings and wisdom from Most High.
Allahu Akbar!
Peace and blessings,
CJ Cummings
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Peace Everyone!
Great Thread and answers.Peace be unto you,
May this letter find you guided by God.
Understand that I too am searching for the Truth, through patient prayer and study of the Quran. I cannot say that I am 100% correct in not turning towards Masjid Al-Haram.
I have come from the Baptist Christian faith, steeped heavily in the luciferian doctrine of pagan syncretism, so my rejection of the hadiths was confirmed when I opened the Bukhari hadith and read with my own eyes the corruption within. So knowing that these hadiths push for turning towards the Kaabah in prayer, I have to study and research the original Arabic to discover for myself wherein the Truth lies in the Quran.
I read 6 translations now, having recently picked up the Sublime Quran translated by Laleh Bakhtiar Phd. I read many to cross reference translations, for though the Arabic is the same, I do not speak Arabic and rely on translations of men! However this learned woman, a scholar, is alive today, praise be to God! And God has blessed me with an avenue to contact her, (thanks to my wife-to-be who found her video discussions on YouTube), so I am awaiting a missive from her concerning the original translation.
Having said that, there are signs that we as worshippers of God must pray on when reading the Quran.
"Those to whom We have given the Book study it as it should be studied they are the ones that believe therein those who reject faith therein, the loss is their own." Surah 2121
We are given clear signs in the Quran that there is a Mosque dedicated to God. Surah 2144, 149-150
We are given clear signs as well consisting of landmarks for this house. 2158Coming from the Christian faith, it is easy for me to read the story of Abraham and the exile of Ishmael to trace their paths on their journies in life. Yet my own path to God must come from the Final Law, the Quran. Surah 1827
Remember, God gave us a direction to pray towards, not to, "so that We might know whoever follows the Messenger from him who turns about on his two heels." Surah 2143
God wants to know if we truly believe and follow Him through the Final Testament given to the Final Messenger, believing the Quran to be Truth, or if we follow our own hearts or the teachings of men.If in the response to my letter, Dr. Bahktiar shows me the Sacred Mosque spoken of in Surah 2144, 149-150 is Masjid Al-Haram in name, not an Arabic equivilant, then I will cease turning my own face to the heavens and prostrate myself towards the direction of Masjid Al-Haram. Not the Kaabah, but Masjid Al-Haram.
Then I'll have to tackle whether I circle the Kaabah or not, insha'Allah. P
I have read responses from other men and women who state their own views would be met with violence inside Mecca. I would have to ask, if we are believers, why would we attempt to sow discord in any place where God, the One True God, the Creator, is worshipped? Would it not be a blessing to share fellowship and praise to God with fellow brothers and sisters, e'en if their path is not on our own? God loves the benevolent. I personally would not mock or condemn those who follow a different path, for in my own witnessing I would pray that God plants the seeds of faith. I am not a guardian, and my only obligation is to share what I know from the Quran when given the opportunity. Even God tells us to travel wary when among unbelievers.
And lest we forget, believers are protected by God. I have complete faith in my safety no matter where I go.
"O those who have believed! Pray for help with patience and prayer; truly God is with the ones who remain steadfast." Surah 2153
I hope my own journey towards Truth through God's guidance is of assistance to other believers.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace be unto you, brothers and sisters,
May God guide you to the Truth.
The mountains of Safa and Marwa are markers for believers to find the House and Masjid Al-Haram. 2158
The House, aka The Kaaba, was the first qiblah, rebuilt and dedicated to God by Abraham and Ishmael. 2125, 1437
The House contained idols, so Muhammad didn't want to face it. God gave him/us a new qiblah Masjid Al-Haram. The Sacred Mosque. 2149-150
Masjid Al-Haram was around during the time of Muhammad. 928-29
God clearly states Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. 2140
We will not be asked what Abraham and Ishmael did, only what WE did. 2134,141
Men tell us the first qiblah was in Jerusalem.
Men tell us our qiblah is the House, aka The Kaaba.
God tells us this is a hard test except for those who are guided. 2143
Why is it a hard test?
Believers will go against the majority.
Believers will not face the Kaaba, but Masjid Al-Haram.
Believers will not hide the Truth. 2146
You have to put your entire faith into God, and believe completely the Quran is Truth.
This will bring believers into opposition with the unbelievers.
If you come to this Truth, and turn to the Kaaba, you are WRONG. 2145
Believers KNOW the Quran comes from God, as sure as we know our children. 2146
The Truth is from our Lord, so be not of the doubters. 2147
Do you dispute with me about Allah, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and for us are our deeds and for you your deeds; and we are sincere to Him? 2139
Or do you say Abraham and Ishmael and Issac and Jacob and the tribes were Jews and Christians? 2140
God guides who He pleases to the right path. 2142
This is a test to see who follows the Messanger and who turns on their heels. 2143
And those who dispute are fools or wrongdoers. 2142,145
We are to vie with each other in good works. 2148
Read. Pray. If you believe, share. Make videos.
One day we will be made master of our qiblah. 2144"O you who believe, seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient." Surah 2153
Be not of the doubters.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace Ragingaijin,
The mountains of Safa and Marwa are markers for believers to find the House and Masjid Al-Haram. 2158
How are some unkown and assumed mountains markers?
The god tells Abraham the location of the house in 2226 in no uncertain terms.
The House, aka The Kaaba, was the first qiblah, rebuilt and dedicated to God by Abraham and Ishmael. 2125, 1437
The House contained idols, so Muhammad didn't want to face it. God gave him/us a new qiblah Masjid Al-Haram. The Sacred Mosque. 2149-1502142 what is the answer that we should give to the fools who ask us about why we rejected the direction that we were on? This answer will always be true no matter who the fools are or what physical direction they follow.
Masjid Al-Haram was around during the time of Muhammad. 928-29
God clearly states Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. 2140
We will not be asked what Abraham and Ishmael did, only what WE did. 2134,141
Men tell us the first qiblah was in Jerusalem.
Men tell us our qiblah is the House, aka The Kaaba.
God tells us this is a hard test except for those who are guided. 2143Exactly. Facing some stone or some shrine is not a hard test. Going to a mosque and telling the overwheling majorty of people that god is everywhere and facing a random direction while praying is a hard thing to do. Those who are guided believe that piety is not to turn your face to the east and the west (2115, 2177).
Why is it a hard test?
Believers will go against the majority.Exactly.
Believers will not face the Kaaba, but Masjid Al-Haram.
Believers will not hide the Truth. 2146Yes they will face the truth to get there and be on the straight path.
You have to put your entire faith into God, and believe completely the Quran is Truth.
This will bring believers into opposition with the unbelievers.
If you come to this Truth, and turn to the Kaaba, you are WRONG. 2145
Believers KNOW the Quran comes from God, as sure as we know our children. 2146Yes they know "al-masjid al-haram" as they know their own children.
The Truth is from our Lord, so be not of the doubters. 2147
The people of the book know that the "al-masjid al-haram" is indeed the truth from their Lord.
Do you dispute with me about Allah, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and for us are our deeds and for you your deeds; and we are sincere to Him? 2139
Or do you say Abraham and Ishmael and Issac and Jacob and the tribes were Jews and Christians? 2140
God guides who He pleases to the right path. 2142By facing the truth for your lord, you are on the right path. No shrine can put you on the right path.
This is a test to see who follows the Messanger and who turns on their heels. 2143
It is a test because it is a big deal to turn away from whatever physical direction that the majority imagine to face.
And those who dispute are fools or wrongdoers. 2142,145
Go to any congregational site who follows any physical direction, whether Mecca, Jerusalem or wherever, if you turn away from the direction that they are facing, you will be asked the same question in 2142.
We are to vie with each other in good works. 2148
Read. Pray. If you believe, share. Make videos.
One day we will be made master of our qiblah. 2144
"O you who believe, seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient." Surah 2153
Be not of the doubters.
Peace and blessings.Racing to do good work and not racing to face some shrine, spin around it or touch it or kiss it.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace, brother,
Believe or believe not. I'm not a guardian.
Peace and blessings.
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"And certainly We have brought them a Book which We make clear with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for people who believe." Surah 752
"And We sent not before thee any but men to whom We sent revelation - so ask the followers of the Reminder if you know not - With clear arguments and Scriptures. And We have revealed to thee the Reminder that thou mayest make clear to men that which has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect." Surah 1643-44
Peace Ragingaijin,
How are some unkown and assumed mountains markers?
"The Safa and Marwa are truly among the signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit to it, there is no blame on him if he goes round them. And whoever does good spontaneously - surely Allah is Bountiful in rewarding, Knowing." Surah 2158
Do you believe God is All Knowing, Omniscient? Do you truly believe God is All Mighty?
Do you believe in the Quran as God's Word, completely and with all your heart? Do you trust the Quran to guide you true?
Did God place these markers as a way to confuse believers, or do you believe God knew all of this would come, to ensure this would be a test for every believer until the Day of Judgement?
Have you prayed to God about this issue, asking for clarification?
I believe God is All Knowing, Omniscient. I believe the Quran is the purest guidance here on earth for those who seek God. I believe God in His Wisdom, put these markers down in the Quran for those who truly believe to be guided true. And I believe God put this test in to see who truly follows Him, or turns on heels.
And brother, I have prayed about it. Ever since I read these Surahs; it has been a long journey, as you can see from the time of my first report to this one. Yet even God says "O you who believe, seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient." Surah 2153
I believe with all my heart, and all my soul, that I am willing to stake my entrance into Paradise on it. God guides those who seek Him and His Wisdom. God led me to the Quran out of Christianity. There is no reason for me to think or believe God would not lead me to understand these Surahs after I have patiently prayed for understanding.
Assumed markers? Brother, we know exactly where those markers are They are signposts for the believer.
The god tells Abraham the location of the house in 2226 in no uncertain terms.
Correct. And God tells Abraham what Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque, is in no uncertain terms in 2225 and 928-29.
"O you who believe, the idolators are surely unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs." Surah 928
We have been lied to by the deceiver and those who follow hadith. It is they who say the first qiblah is Al-Aqsa Mosque, not the Kaaba. Yet in Surah 2125, God tells us specifically what the first qiblah is.
2142 what is the answer that we should give to the fools who ask us about why we rejected the direction that we were on? This answer will always be true no matter who the fools are or what physical direction they follow.
Exactly. Facing some stone or some shrine is not a hard test. Going to a mosque and telling the overwheling majorty of people that god is everywhere and facing a random direction while praying is a hard thing to do. Those who are guided believe that piety is not to turn your face to the east and the west (2115, 2177).
You sure about that? )
You keep saying we are praying to a stone. God never told us to pray to anything but Him. God tells us to face toward Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque, to show Unity in Faith, and to prove to Him who follows the teachings of the Messenger (pbuh) from those who turn on their heel.
You pray to God and only to God. Do not associate partners to God.
I apologize if I am making an assumption, brother If English is not your primary language, and you know Arabic, please look up the Surahs in Chapter 2 again, and double check the meanings for 'face' and 'pray'. If neither English nor Arabic is your primary language, please look up the definition for 'face'. It means to point in a direction, not to pray in a direction.
Again, I do not know you, so I apologize if I am making an incorrect assumption. I mean no offense by it.
Exactly.
Yes they will face the truth to get there and be on the straight path.
Yes they know "al-masjid al-haram" as they know their own children.
The people of the book know that the "al-masjid al-haram" is indeed the truth from their Lord.
By facing the truth for your lord, you are on the right path. No shrine can put you on the right path.
Agreed on all. Yet by facing Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque, not the Kaaba, it will demonstrate to our Lord who follows the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) and those who turn on their heel.
It is a test because it is a big deal to turn away from whatever physical direction that the majority imagine to face.
Again, agreed. D
Go to any congregational site who follows any physical direction, whether Mecca, Jerusalem or wherever, if you turn away from the direction that they are facing, you will be asked the same question in 2142.
Agreed. And I intend to do just that. Someone needs to bring the Truth to the people, since the Imams and teachers refuse to do it.
Racing to do good work and not racing to face some shrine, spin around it or touch it or kiss it.
Brother, I can take open discussion. I draw the line in the sand with this snarkiness. No where did I say to kiss or touch Masjid Al-Haram or the Kaaba. No where did I say to face the Kaaba, the House. No where did I say to stone an idol, no where did I say to kiss the black stone. If you made this comment to be unjust, then apologize. I have brought this information to this forum to help guide the believers. If you do not believe I speak Truth, then pray asking God for guidance on this matter. I did. This is what God has shown me.
And you know full well, we are told to make circuits around the House. And you know full well there is no fault to them that run between Safa and Marwa.
Surah 2225-33,36,73 595,97, 2125,127,142-150, 396, 1437, 728,31,73, 91,17,19-22,28, 1781, 3449, 1051
And I will make this very, very clear. If you know I am speaking Truth, and you are attempting to hide this Truth from others, you are WRONG. God makes His warning crystal clear "And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to thee, then thou wouldst indeed be of the wrongdoers... And a party of them surely conceal the truth while they know." Surah 2145,146
"Those who conceal aught of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them; and for them is a painful chastisement. Those are they who buy error for guidance and chastisement for forgiveness; how bold they are to challenge the Fire! That is because Allah has revealed the Book with truth. And surely those who disagree about the Book go far in opposition." Surah 2;174-176
"I shall turn away from My messages those who are unjustly proud in the earth. And if they see every sign, they will not believe in it; and if they see the way of rectittude, they take it not for a way; and if they see the way of error, they take it for a way. This is because they reject Our messages and are heedless of them." Surah 7146
You can go back a few entries and see the path I took for this knowledge. I too thought this was a test to turn us completely away from Mecca. I was wrong, brother. Through patient prayer and requests for help, God has sent me the knowledge I need.
I face toward Masjid Al-Haram the Sacred Mosque, not the Kaaba the House. I face this direction to prove to God I believe the Quran is the Truth, clear and easy to understand because I believe and pray for guidance from God. I face this direction to show I follow the teachings of the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad (pbuh). I face this direction to show Unity in Faith with my fellow brother and sister believers.
And insha'Allah, I intend to make the Hajj and face the Sacred Mosque, and bring this message to my fellow brothers and sisters who are being lied to by those who lead them.
Pray for guidance, if you are a believer.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace be unto you, Raging Gaijin and all.
May God guide you to the Truth,
First, this friendly reminder for all those who thinks their suppositions as the Truth. For those who lied and change the Truth, hell-fire will be his/her abode. God?s warning, not mine.
171 _ Glory to Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs for He is the One Who Heareth and Seeth.
The general understanding of this verse from the teaching of Islam based on the hadiths; a journey by Muhammad from Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca to Masjid Al-Aqsa in Baitul Maqdis/Jerusalem and his ascension to Heaven, apart from witnessing the Signs in Heaven he was also to negotiate with God for the 5 salat times from 50 salat times. Correct me if I?m wrong.
Let?s look at the signs that God have shown us truthfully. Was there an Al-Aqsa mosque during the prophet?s time? His story tells us that the Al-Aqsa was built years after the death of the prophet. So Masjid Al-Aqsa is out from that verse and thus it was not Muhammad who made the night journey. But that still left us with the question, who made that night journey and from which sacred place to which sacred place?
?The Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless? is the Sacred House/Kaaba in Mecca within the Masjid Al-Haram whose precincts had been blessed by God after Abraham and Ishmael built it. The Kaaba in Mecca is the first and the oldest Sacred House. Only the Kaaba has ?some of Our Signs? to be shown to His servant.
So it must be a night journey from some sacred place to this Sacred House/Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca.
So what and where is this second sacred place which God is telling us in that verse? It is the place called the Sacred Valley of Wadi Tuwa. This is the place where God talk with Moses and wrote the Torat for the bani Israel. Please, don?t forget about this wadi. Although this place is only a wadi but it is THE sacred place where God wrote the Torat and talk with Moses.
So who actually made the night journey? It was Moses, so that he knows where to take the 12 tribes next, to the Sacred House in Mecca. The rest of the sura are all about Moses.
But when they reach the Sacred House, the tribes said there were strong people inside and ask Moses to get rid of them first then only they will enter. When Moses complain to God that he and Aron could not persuade these thick headed 12 tribes to enter the Sacred House, God punish them with the 40 years wandering in the Arabian desert. God tells them that the Sacred House is haram for the 12 tribes to enter, thus the Masjid Al-Haram. They knew that the first qibla was at Masjid Al-Haram.
So what exactly is the ?stone cube? inside the Masjid Al-Haram? It is the first qibla, the book of Abraham (in symbolic terms), when God told him and Ishmael to build the foundations for the religion of Tauhid.
The qibla is and will always be of God, when He said ?You come from Me and to Me you shall return?. Study the ?stone cube? (not the rituals) and pray to God for guidance and the Truth.
Out of these 40 years wandering, there are Hebrew writings / inscriptions in Yemen, Oman, Hail and other places of the Arabian Desert. And finally, after the long wandering in the desert, they were settled in Philistine (Palestine). And when some of the 12 tribes became arrogant and warred with one another and with their neighbours, God send the Babylonians to destroy the first temple in Jerusalem/Baitul Maqdis.
I hope your prayers to God and with this short summary will help and guide you to the Truth, brother RG.
For the others, please repent and pray for forgiveness from God. Please, never stop searching for the Truth from God. Your submission/surrender (islam) will only be accepted after you fulfill within yourself with the Truth and nothing but the Truth from God alone. Not mix in with conjectures and suppositions. Remember, our God is a Merciful God.
Brother RG, God?s willing, go and see the Sacred House and the qibla in Mecca. If you are with a group of the old way, just follow where ever they take you during the hajj season. Enjoy the sceneries in Medina and have a baffling time watching others doing the stoning of the 3 pillars. But whatever you do, don?t ever forget to pray and ask God any questions you have in your heart for the Truth, when you are there. The key word is PATIENCE and God always answer as promised.
I started searching for the Truth since 1993 and been following the religion of Abraham, Tauhid and never look back or to others. I have been to Mecca during the hajj season in 2000, escorting my dear old mum. I did the tawaf for the experience and I felt like a small boat floating on a sea of humans. I drank the zam zam and the first cup tasted like honey down my throat. I prayed in my hotel room and tell God how sorry and sad I am that I cannot join the masses in His Sacred House because of all the wayward rituals. Nowadays I am still reading and learning from God through the Holy Book of Truth. I am also in anticipation of going Home, but knowing this too, is all up to our most Compassionate and Merciful God.
God bless, brother RG. pr
Related signs that God had revealed quite recently, follow this link http//www.pilgrimpromo.com/WAR/
May God guide us all towards the TRUTH.
tauhid101. -
Peace be unto you, Raging Gaijin and all.
May God guide you to the Truth,
First, this friendly reminder for all those who thinks their suppositions as the Truth. For those who lied and change the Truth, hell-fire will be his/her abode. God?s warning, not mine.
Peace be unto you, brother,
Surah 2174-176
I understand completely. I appreciate the note though, for it is Truth you speak. Those who do hide the Truth will suffer a severe chastisement.
I testify I do not share this to spread a lie nor to change the Truth. May the curse of God be invoked upon me if I am lying or seek to change the Truth. I believe in it, most assuredly. If anyone believes I am spreading lies or falsehood, I entreat you pray to invoke the curse of God on the liars. Surah 361
Bear witness I submit to God and only God. I do not associate partners to God. And I believe the Quran to be the Final Testament sent to us by the Seal of Prophets, Muhammad.
I do entreat all who read my post to be sure to pray for guidance. This was the only way I discovered this, studying the Quran and only the Quran; the Book is complete, easy to read, and a clear guidance for believers. Surah 21-4
I believe it completely to incorporate it into my own daily worship of God, our Creator, Lord of the worlds.
Safa and Marwa are truly among the signs of God.
Again Pray for guidance. God guides those who seek Him.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace be unto you, brother tauhid,
Thank you for your response. I totally agree Only through patience and prayer will we truly receive the answers. Even I am still praying for guidance on this course, though I believe I have been given insight into this. Yet just because I have an 'answer' does not mean I should stop. There is further clarification about this, as well as why so many Muslims turn to the Kaaba instead of Masjid Al-Haram.
Please do not think my reply was intended as insult. I want people to know how I firmly believe in God and His guidance, not that of man. And how much I believe in the Quran as God's Word and guidance. Yet again, patient prayer and study will bring all Truth to light, insha'Allah. D
Thank you again for your response. Bismallah, may all responses to this topic help the believer on their search for Truth.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace be unto you, Raging Gaijin and all.
May God guide you to the Truth,
First, this friendly reminder for all those who thinks their suppositions as the Truth. For those who lied and change the Truth, hell-fire will be his/her abode. God?s warning, not mine.
Peace
171 _ Glory to Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs for He is the One Who Heareth and Seeth.
correct
The general understanding of this verse from the teaching of Islam based on the hadiths; a journey by Muhammad from Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca to Masjid Al-Aqsa in Baitul Maqdis/Jerusalem and his ascension to Heaven, apart from witnessing the Signs in Heaven he was also to negotiate with God for the 5 salat times from 50 salat times. Correct me if I?m wrong.
Nowhere in the few verses of surah 17 does it say anything about Muhammad nor in the previous revelation does it say anything about muhammad. This is bias thinking supported by sectarian beliefs. This has been touched by another post on this thread
Let?s look at the signs that God have shown us truthfully. Was there an Al-Aqsa mosque during the prophet?s time? His story tells us that the Al-Aqsa was built years after the death of the prophet. So Masjid Al-Aqsa is out from that verse and thus it was not Muhammad who made the night journey. But that still left us with the question, who made that night journey and from which sacred place to which sacred place?
Ok
?The Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless? is the Sacred House/Kaaba in Mecca within the Masjid Al-Haram whose precincts had been blessed by God after Abraham and Ishmael built it. The Kaaba in Mecca is the first and the oldest Sacred House. Only the Kaaba has ?some of Our Signs? to be shown to His servant.
There is nowhere in the quran that gives the indication kaaba in mecca was the first one, actually it clearly says it wasn't. This is more sectarian thinking with no quranic proof
So it must be a night journey from some sacred place to this Sacred House/Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca.
Mecca is nowhere mentioned in those verses
So what and where is this second sacred place which God is telling us in that verse? It is the place called the Sacred Valley of Wadi Tuwa. This is the place where God talk with Moses and wrote the Torat for the bani Israel. Please, don?t forget about this wadi. Although this place is only a wadi but it is THE sacred place where God wrote the Torat and talk with Moses.
Possible
So who actually made the night journey? It was Moses, so that he knows where to take the 12 tribes next, to the Sacred House in Mecca. The rest of the sura are all about Moses.
I believe it was moses, but the reasoning is flawed. Your belief is based on the idea that becca is same as mecca, which has not been proven.
But when they reach the Sacred House, the tribes said there were strong people inside and ask Moses to get rid of them first then only they will enter. When Moses complain to God that he and Aron could not persuade these thick headed 12 tribes to enter the Sacred House, God punish them with the 40 years wandering in the Arabian desert. God tells them that the Sacred House is haram for the 12 tribes to enter, thus the Masjid Al-Haram. They knew that the first qibla was at Masjid Al-Haram.
Where in the quran does it give you the idea that the israelites "knew that the qiblah was at masjid al haram", nowhere in the torah is mecca mentioned unless your talking about the temple at jerusalem as the masjid al haram then I could possibly agree.
So what exactly is the ?stone cube? inside the Masjid Al-Haram? It is the first qibla, the book of Abraham (in symbolic terms), when God told him and Ishmael to build the foundations for the religion of Tauhid.
Can you please tell me the "significance of a cube" to monotheism, Why on EARTH would GOD need a useless cube to build the foundation of monotheism. You do realize african and native americans have been found to venerate a cube similar to the one in mecca, and it wasn't for "monotheistic" reasons.
The qibla is and will always be of God, when He said ?You come from Me and to Me you shall return?. Study the ?stone cube? (not the rituals) and pray to God for guidance and the Truth.
Please show me the logic behind 'studying a stone cube', studying a stone cube won't do anything for me or my relationship with GOD. The cube is not a mediator.
Out of these 40 years wandering, there are Hebrew writings / inscriptions in Yemen, Oman, Hail and other places of the Arabian Desert. And finally, after the long wandering in the desert, they were settled in Philistine (Palestine). And when some of the 12 tribes became arrogant and warred with one another and with their neighbours, God send the Babylonians to destroy the first temple in Jerusalem/Baitul Maqdis.
Ok You still haven't drawn the connection between GOD->a cube->and monotheism
Peace
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Safa and Marwa are truly among the signs of God.
Since you seem to venerate safa and marwah and use it as your reasoning for everything, can you please tell me what it means to you? rotfl Do you realize the pagans could have easily named the hills after the already given quranic name just like they did to many things before. Like what Ayman said, there is no physical descriptions of "safa and marwah", which could proven without a shadow of a doubt that they were in mecca.
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Peace Real Truth,
FIY, I used the wording ?stone cube? because that?s what most of the members here who follows the consesus and the poll, call the Kaabah stone cube, black cube, a idol and the Mecca now is not the Becca in the Holy Book.
I pray God will forgive me for using the wording ?stone cube?. pr
Have you visit the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah in Mecca? Your post tells me you are very certain of what you wrote. Can I assume that you are set on the Kaabah not to be in Mecca, just because Becca is not Mecca? And the Mecca now is not the Mecca or Becca in the Holy Book?
If you have not visited the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah, are you not afraid to call the Kaabah a useless cube? Man, you are brave and I truly hope you do have a truthful relationship with God, Real Truth.
Peace.
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Peace Real Truth,
Peace
FIY, I used the wording ?stone cube? because that?s what most of the members here who follows the consesus and the poll, call the Kaabah stone cube, black cube, a idol and the Mecca now is not the Becca in the Holy Book.
Makes sense
I pray God will forgive me for using the wording ?stone cube?. pr
pr
Have you visit the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah in Mecca? Your post tells me you are very certain of what you wrote. Can I assume that you are set on the Kaabah not to be in Mecca, just because Becca is not Mecca? And the Mecca now is not the Mecca or Becca in the Holy Book?
No I have not visited neither(thank GOD) and don't plan to, there is no "one" kaaba. Like Ayman said, Abraham's house location is given in 2226. The becca in quran is not the same as mecca, if he meant mecca he would have called it mecca.
If you have not visited the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah, are you not afraid to call the Kaabah a useless cube? Man, you are brave and I truly hope you do have a truthful relationship with God, Real Truth.
I'm not scared of a useless cube, I'm afraid of GOD. I've done research with shows "rock veneration" identical to the one in mecca was rapid in many continents such as Africa. Many african civilization had their special "rock" that they claimed came from space(just as sunnis do) mainly because it most likely did...I've yet to see how a rock connects me to GOD. And where is this almighty cube that is suppose to be so important mentioned in the previous scripture(torah or gospel) If Abraham had really put that stone cube in mecca, then there must be some sort of proof his descendants went there to perform hajj am I right?
Surah 2177
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Salamun alaykum
"And brother, I have prayed about it. Ever since I read these Surahs; it has been a long journey, as you can see from the time of my first report to this one. Yet even God says "O you who believe, seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient." Surah 2153
Indeed it has been a long journey trying to establish what is meant by 171 and whether it was a physical jorney from one physical building to another in the farthest end of the universe ? To retrace the path of Muhammad / messenger of the Qur'an from al Masjid al Haram to al Masjid al Aqsa , I feel it is necessary to revisit verses relevant to this journey . We have gone this far in the search for the meaning and nature of the 'journey' as described in 171 and yet we are no closer to any clear understanding of it .
Perhaps , it is time to change our approach to this subject at hand , instead of looking at it from physical Masjids perspective , we could try and shift our focus to a Non Physical one to both "The Journey" itself and the said Masjids ? My suggestion is that we should look at this search from a 'Human Motivation' angle , after all we all know from the Qur'an that the prophet/messenger was as human as the rest of us . Since we do not have a reliable biography of Muhammad , we can only go by what was told to us through the Qur'an as to the life journey of the messenger as well as the life journeys of all previous messengers mentioned in the great reading . From the search for "Truth" to their appointment to messengerships/prophethood , these are the verses that we should look into and hope that perhaps , our God would shed some light on our quest to understand this subject at hand .
Let's have a look at some of these verses and see if they are clear enough for us all
1 Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists).
2 He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).
3 Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous
4 Who has taught (the writing) by the pen
5 He has taught man that which he knew not.
We could see from the above verses that the messenger had to go through all the learning processes as any other human being . For the sake of brevity , I would just list some of the verse numbers which I believe are relevant these are 961-5 , 931-11 , 2945 , 2121 and 1736 among other verses , others I'd paste such as these verses
"144 Muhammad ( م is no more than a Messenger, and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels (as disbelievers)? And he who turns back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; and Allah will give reward to those who are grateful" . and
110 Say (O Muhammad م "I am only a man like you. It has been revealed to me that your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God - i.e. Allah). So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord." and
Say (O Muhammad م "I am only a human being like you. It is revealed to me that your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God - Allah), therefore take Straight Path to Him (with true Faith - Islamic Monotheism) and obedience to Him, and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe to Al-Mushrikun (the polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah).
These are the verses that I believe is talking about Muhammad , if I may suggest that we should take a fresh look at the subject under discussion as a Spiritual and Intellectual journey of a human being towards fulfilling his 'highest potential' or reaching al Masjid al Aqsa whose surrounding is blessed .
For those who are familiar with Abraham Marslow and his " Hierarchy of Human Needs " perhaps they would find it easier to relate and to reconcile any contradiction that may appear in comparing Prophet Muhammad to a mere mortal such as ourselves . But then again , we could see from the verses above that Muhammad himself repeatedly say that he is a human like us , who has all the needs of a normal human being , he never said that he was an angel . The messenger had desires and drive to achieve and realize his own capabilities and to achieve a personal growth spitually and intellectually to the highest possible level . In the hierarchy of human needs of Abraham Marslow , the Messenger can be said to have achieved Self Actualization or Self Realization and from the meaning of Masjid al Aqsa Muhammad had certainly achieved Self Transcendence . However , All must go through the stages human needs before one can get to the Summit ( all lower needs were satisfied first and Muhammad was no exception ).
I hope this post can be useful towards a better understanding of the Topic of this thread .... let me list some other verses regarding the journey / search for the Truth by other Messngers such as Ibrahim and Moses for further examination 675-79 and 1860-82 .
Peace and may God increase our knowledge and wisdom .
almarh0m
p.p.s. The starting point is "The Inviolable Institution of Obedience" or " The Law " for Al Masjid Al Haram .
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Peace be unto you, brother tauhid,
Thank you for your response. I totally agree Only through patience and prayer will we truly receive the answers. Even I am still praying for guidance on this course, though I believe I have been given insight into this. Yet just because I have an 'answer' does not mean I should stop. There is further clarification about this, as well as why so many Muslims turn to the Kaaba instead of Masjid Al-Haram.
Please do not think my reply was intended as insult. I want people to know how I firmly believe in God and His guidance, not that of man. And how much I believe in the Quran as God's Word and guidance. Yet again, patient prayer and study will bring all Truth to light, insha'Allah. D
Thank you again for your response. Bismallah, may all responses to this topic help the believer on their search for Truth.
Peace and blessings.
So what's the difference between Masjid al-Haram and Kaaba, and where are they located, in your opinion.
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Peace progressive,
Can you please enlighten us where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people entering into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten us where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who walks straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Once you answer these questions, God willing you will find the answers to your above questions.
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peace truthseeker11, raginggaijin, all
I was only asking about ragingaijin's opinion, thats all. I personally think the qiblah is towards mecca, but i'm not here to discuss that.
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peace truthseeker11, raginggaijin, all
I was only asking about ragingaijin's opinion, thats all. I personally think the qiblah is towards mecca, but i'm not here to discuss that.
Salaam, akhi,
Masjid Al-Haram surrounds Bayt Al-Haram. The Sacred Mosque surrounds the Kabah. We pray inside Masjid Al-Haram. We make circuits around the Kabah/Bayt Al-Haram.
Hope this helps.
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Jazakallah Khair.