What are the Furtherst Mosque and the Sacred Mosque (17:1)
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Peace be unto you, brother tauhid,
Thank you for your response. I totally agree Only through patience and prayer will we truly receive the answers. Even I am still praying for guidance on this course, though I believe I have been given insight into this. Yet just because I have an 'answer' does not mean I should stop. There is further clarification about this, as well as why so many Muslims turn to the Kaaba instead of Masjid Al-Haram.
Please do not think my reply was intended as insult. I want people to know how I firmly believe in God and His guidance, not that of man. And how much I believe in the Quran as God's Word and guidance. Yet again, patient prayer and study will bring all Truth to light, insha'Allah. D
Thank you again for your response. Bismallah, may all responses to this topic help the believer on their search for Truth.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace be unto you, Raging Gaijin and all.
May God guide you to the Truth,
First, this friendly reminder for all those who thinks their suppositions as the Truth. For those who lied and change the Truth, hell-fire will be his/her abode. God?s warning, not mine.
Peace
171 _ Glory to Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs for He is the One Who Heareth and Seeth.
correct
The general understanding of this verse from the teaching of Islam based on the hadiths; a journey by Muhammad from Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca to Masjid Al-Aqsa in Baitul Maqdis/Jerusalem and his ascension to Heaven, apart from witnessing the Signs in Heaven he was also to negotiate with God for the 5 salat times from 50 salat times. Correct me if I?m wrong.
Nowhere in the few verses of surah 17 does it say anything about Muhammad nor in the previous revelation does it say anything about muhammad. This is bias thinking supported by sectarian beliefs. This has been touched by another post on this thread
Let?s look at the signs that God have shown us truthfully. Was there an Al-Aqsa mosque during the prophet?s time? His story tells us that the Al-Aqsa was built years after the death of the prophet. So Masjid Al-Aqsa is out from that verse and thus it was not Muhammad who made the night journey. But that still left us with the question, who made that night journey and from which sacred place to which sacred place?
Ok
?The Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless? is the Sacred House/Kaaba in Mecca within the Masjid Al-Haram whose precincts had been blessed by God after Abraham and Ishmael built it. The Kaaba in Mecca is the first and the oldest Sacred House. Only the Kaaba has ?some of Our Signs? to be shown to His servant.
There is nowhere in the quran that gives the indication kaaba in mecca was the first one, actually it clearly says it wasn't. This is more sectarian thinking with no quranic proof
So it must be a night journey from some sacred place to this Sacred House/Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca.
Mecca is nowhere mentioned in those verses
So what and where is this second sacred place which God is telling us in that verse? It is the place called the Sacred Valley of Wadi Tuwa. This is the place where God talk with Moses and wrote the Torat for the bani Israel. Please, don?t forget about this wadi. Although this place is only a wadi but it is THE sacred place where God wrote the Torat and talk with Moses.
Possible
So who actually made the night journey? It was Moses, so that he knows where to take the 12 tribes next, to the Sacred House in Mecca. The rest of the sura are all about Moses.
I believe it was moses, but the reasoning is flawed. Your belief is based on the idea that becca is same as mecca, which has not been proven.
But when they reach the Sacred House, the tribes said there were strong people inside and ask Moses to get rid of them first then only they will enter. When Moses complain to God that he and Aron could not persuade these thick headed 12 tribes to enter the Sacred House, God punish them with the 40 years wandering in the Arabian desert. God tells them that the Sacred House is haram for the 12 tribes to enter, thus the Masjid Al-Haram. They knew that the first qibla was at Masjid Al-Haram.
Where in the quran does it give you the idea that the israelites "knew that the qiblah was at masjid al haram", nowhere in the torah is mecca mentioned unless your talking about the temple at jerusalem as the masjid al haram then I could possibly agree.
So what exactly is the ?stone cube? inside the Masjid Al-Haram? It is the first qibla, the book of Abraham (in symbolic terms), when God told him and Ishmael to build the foundations for the religion of Tauhid.
Can you please tell me the "significance of a cube" to monotheism, Why on EARTH would GOD need a useless cube to build the foundation of monotheism. You do realize african and native americans have been found to venerate a cube similar to the one in mecca, and it wasn't for "monotheistic" reasons.
The qibla is and will always be of God, when He said ?You come from Me and to Me you shall return?. Study the ?stone cube? (not the rituals) and pray to God for guidance and the Truth.
Please show me the logic behind 'studying a stone cube', studying a stone cube won't do anything for me or my relationship with GOD. The cube is not a mediator.
Out of these 40 years wandering, there are Hebrew writings / inscriptions in Yemen, Oman, Hail and other places of the Arabian Desert. And finally, after the long wandering in the desert, they were settled in Philistine (Palestine). And when some of the 12 tribes became arrogant and warred with one another and with their neighbours, God send the Babylonians to destroy the first temple in Jerusalem/Baitul Maqdis.
Ok You still haven't drawn the connection between GOD->a cube->and monotheism
Peace
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Safa and Marwa are truly among the signs of God.
Since you seem to venerate safa and marwah and use it as your reasoning for everything, can you please tell me what it means to you? rotfl Do you realize the pagans could have easily named the hills after the already given quranic name just like they did to many things before. Like what Ayman said, there is no physical descriptions of "safa and marwah", which could proven without a shadow of a doubt that they were in mecca.
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Peace Real Truth,
FIY, I used the wording ?stone cube? because that?s what most of the members here who follows the consesus and the poll, call the Kaabah stone cube, black cube, a idol and the Mecca now is not the Becca in the Holy Book.
I pray God will forgive me for using the wording ?stone cube?. pr
Have you visit the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah in Mecca? Your post tells me you are very certain of what you wrote. Can I assume that you are set on the Kaabah not to be in Mecca, just because Becca is not Mecca? And the Mecca now is not the Mecca or Becca in the Holy Book?
If you have not visited the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah, are you not afraid to call the Kaabah a useless cube? Man, you are brave and I truly hope you do have a truthful relationship with God, Real Truth.
Peace.
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Peace Real Truth,
Peace
FIY, I used the wording ?stone cube? because that?s what most of the members here who follows the consesus and the poll, call the Kaabah stone cube, black cube, a idol and the Mecca now is not the Becca in the Holy Book.
Makes sense
I pray God will forgive me for using the wording ?stone cube?. pr
pr
Have you visit the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah in Mecca? Your post tells me you are very certain of what you wrote. Can I assume that you are set on the Kaabah not to be in Mecca, just because Becca is not Mecca? And the Mecca now is not the Mecca or Becca in the Holy Book?
No I have not visited neither(thank GOD) and don't plan to, there is no "one" kaaba. Like Ayman said, Abraham's house location is given in 2226. The becca in quran is not the same as mecca, if he meant mecca he would have called it mecca.
If you have not visited the Sacred Mosque Al-Haram and the Kaabah, are you not afraid to call the Kaabah a useless cube? Man, you are brave and I truly hope you do have a truthful relationship with God, Real Truth.
I'm not scared of a useless cube, I'm afraid of GOD. I've done research with shows "rock veneration" identical to the one in mecca was rapid in many continents such as Africa. Many african civilization had their special "rock" that they claimed came from space(just as sunnis do) mainly because it most likely did...I've yet to see how a rock connects me to GOD. And where is this almighty cube that is suppose to be so important mentioned in the previous scripture(torah or gospel) If Abraham had really put that stone cube in mecca, then there must be some sort of proof his descendants went there to perform hajj am I right?
Surah 2177
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Salamun alaykum
"And brother, I have prayed about it. Ever since I read these Surahs; it has been a long journey, as you can see from the time of my first report to this one. Yet even God says "O you who believe, seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient." Surah 2153
Indeed it has been a long journey trying to establish what is meant by 171 and whether it was a physical jorney from one physical building to another in the farthest end of the universe ? To retrace the path of Muhammad / messenger of the Qur'an from al Masjid al Haram to al Masjid al Aqsa , I feel it is necessary to revisit verses relevant to this journey . We have gone this far in the search for the meaning and nature of the 'journey' as described in 171 and yet we are no closer to any clear understanding of it .
Perhaps , it is time to change our approach to this subject at hand , instead of looking at it from physical Masjids perspective , we could try and shift our focus to a Non Physical one to both "The Journey" itself and the said Masjids ? My suggestion is that we should look at this search from a 'Human Motivation' angle , after all we all know from the Qur'an that the prophet/messenger was as human as the rest of us . Since we do not have a reliable biography of Muhammad , we can only go by what was told to us through the Qur'an as to the life journey of the messenger as well as the life journeys of all previous messengers mentioned in the great reading . From the search for "Truth" to their appointment to messengerships/prophethood , these are the verses that we should look into and hope that perhaps , our God would shed some light on our quest to understand this subject at hand .
Let's have a look at some of these verses and see if they are clear enough for us all
1 Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists).
2 He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).
3 Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous
4 Who has taught (the writing) by the pen
5 He has taught man that which he knew not.
We could see from the above verses that the messenger had to go through all the learning processes as any other human being . For the sake of brevity , I would just list some of the verse numbers which I believe are relevant these are 961-5 , 931-11 , 2945 , 2121 and 1736 among other verses , others I'd paste such as these verses
"144 Muhammad ( م is no more than a Messenger, and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels (as disbelievers)? And he who turns back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; and Allah will give reward to those who are grateful" . and
110 Say (O Muhammad م "I am only a man like you. It has been revealed to me that your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God - i.e. Allah). So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord." and
Say (O Muhammad م "I am only a human being like you. It is revealed to me that your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God - Allah), therefore take Straight Path to Him (with true Faith - Islamic Monotheism) and obedience to Him, and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe to Al-Mushrikun (the polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah).
These are the verses that I believe is talking about Muhammad , if I may suggest that we should take a fresh look at the subject under discussion as a Spiritual and Intellectual journey of a human being towards fulfilling his 'highest potential' or reaching al Masjid al Aqsa whose surrounding is blessed .
For those who are familiar with Abraham Marslow and his " Hierarchy of Human Needs " perhaps they would find it easier to relate and to reconcile any contradiction that may appear in comparing Prophet Muhammad to a mere mortal such as ourselves . But then again , we could see from the verses above that Muhammad himself repeatedly say that he is a human like us , who has all the needs of a normal human being , he never said that he was an angel . The messenger had desires and drive to achieve and realize his own capabilities and to achieve a personal growth spitually and intellectually to the highest possible level . In the hierarchy of human needs of Abraham Marslow , the Messenger can be said to have achieved Self Actualization or Self Realization and from the meaning of Masjid al Aqsa Muhammad had certainly achieved Self Transcendence . However , All must go through the stages human needs before one can get to the Summit ( all lower needs were satisfied first and Muhammad was no exception ).
I hope this post can be useful towards a better understanding of the Topic of this thread .... let me list some other verses regarding the journey / search for the Truth by other Messngers such as Ibrahim and Moses for further examination 675-79 and 1860-82 .
Peace and may God increase our knowledge and wisdom .
almarh0m
p.p.s. The starting point is "The Inviolable Institution of Obedience" or " The Law " for Al Masjid Al Haram .
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Peace be unto you, brother tauhid,
Thank you for your response. I totally agree Only through patience and prayer will we truly receive the answers. Even I am still praying for guidance on this course, though I believe I have been given insight into this. Yet just because I have an 'answer' does not mean I should stop. There is further clarification about this, as well as why so many Muslims turn to the Kaaba instead of Masjid Al-Haram.
Please do not think my reply was intended as insult. I want people to know how I firmly believe in God and His guidance, not that of man. And how much I believe in the Quran as God's Word and guidance. Yet again, patient prayer and study will bring all Truth to light, insha'Allah. D
Thank you again for your response. Bismallah, may all responses to this topic help the believer on their search for Truth.
Peace and blessings.
So what's the difference between Masjid al-Haram and Kaaba, and where are they located, in your opinion.
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Peace progressive,
Can you please enlighten us where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it
1102 And you see the people entering into God?s DEEN in flocks.
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.
Also can you please enlighten us where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path
6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who walks straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?
I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.
Once you answer these questions, God willing you will find the answers to your above questions.
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peace truthseeker11, raginggaijin, all
I was only asking about ragingaijin's opinion, thats all. I personally think the qiblah is towards mecca, but i'm not here to discuss that.
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peace truthseeker11, raginggaijin, all
I was only asking about ragingaijin's opinion, thats all. I personally think the qiblah is towards mecca, but i'm not here to discuss that.
Salaam, akhi,
Masjid Al-Haram surrounds Bayt Al-Haram. The Sacred Mosque surrounds the Kabah. We pray inside Masjid Al-Haram. We make circuits around the Kabah/Bayt Al-Haram.
Hope this helps.
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Jazakallah Khair.