Islamic Calendar Article
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Peace,
After months and years of thinking over this matter I believe the following article presents the most 'correct' understanding.
Layth
- Article below has been refined/improved reposted based on discussions.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/calendars.htm
In this article, God willing, we will be able to answer some critical questions that arise when one is studying the Quran
When is Ramadhan?
When is Hajj?
When are the four 'restricted' months?If we are successful, then you should be able to give-up the systems you are using today for a system designed by the Almighty and harmonious with nature.
Today's Islamic calendar?
The current 'Islamic' calendar uses a simple count of 12 lunar months which is presumably bases on the Quran and which uses the 'Hijra' (prophet's migration to Medina) as its 'year-0'.
"The count of the months with God is twelve months in God?s record the day He created the sky and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set-up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous." (936)
The lunar months retain Arabic names in the following sequence
- Muharam, 2. Safar, 3. Rabea I, 4. Rabea II, 5. Jamadi I, 6. Jamadi II, 7. Rajab, 8. Shaban, 9. Ramadhan, 10. Shawal, 11. Dhul Qida, 12. Dhul Hija.
The obvious result of such a calendar as any amateur astronomer would know is that the lunar year (12 months * 29.53 days per month = 354.36 days) will be 11-days shorter than the actual solar year of 365.242 days.
This calendar results in the months wildly being out of sync with the seasons and any future 'pre-planning' becomes a complexity in-itself.
Now, it may never have occurred to you to fiddle with this calendar or to examine it carefully in the light of the Quran, but it is no secret that nearly all nations who profess to use the 'Islamic' calendar will also run a 'civil' calendar which uses a 365-day year and for which they schedule their lives and businesses.A logical problem
"A month of Ramadhan, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide and clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Whoever from you is witness to that month, then let him fast in it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He Has guided you, that you may be thankful. " (2185)
"We have sent it down in the night of destiny. And do you know what is the night of destiny?. The night of destiny is better than one thousand months. The Angels and the Spirit come down in it by their Lord?s leave in every matter. It is peaceful until the coming of dawn." (97105)
Here we are told that the Quran was revealed in a 'specific' month (the 9th month of the current calendar) and in a 'specific night'.
The problem created by a wildly spinning calendar is that this special 'night' where the Earth is in a specific location in relation to the sun and the moon and the universe does not occur but once in a 365-days period. Therefore to move the month in which there is fasting from summer to winter to Autumn to Fall clearly creates a logical problem.
What is a Year / What is a Month?
To define these time periods is the first step to unraveling the problem faced with the calendar and the mistakes made.
Year - Typically defined as a rotation of the Earth around the Sun (365 days rounded).
This is scientifically calculated as the time it takes the Earth to rotate around the Sun from the beginning of one vernal Equinox to the next vernal Equinox. Such calculation comes to approximately 365.24 days (also known as tropical year).
"And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely." (1712)
In 1712 above, God speaks of the night and day and how they serve as timing devices. And as we know the night and day are results of the spinning of the earth on its axes and thus the presence or absence of sunlight on areas of the earth in its rotation causes night and day. So the sun is a factor here in the issue of night and day. And the sun is indeed a body designed by God to serve (among other functions) as a timer...
1 year = 1 earth phase around the sun (approx. 365 days).What may be of interest to point-out is that the Quran uses the singular form of the word 'day/yawm' approximately 365-times. Thus relating to us the proper definition for the word 'year' (i.e. it is a solar based method).
Month - This is typically known as a 30 day period.
"He is the One who made the sun to emit light, and the moon to reflect it, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except for truth. He details the revelations for a people who know. " (105)
The unique structure of the Moon with it 'phases' has been known from the earliest written records showing that various civilizations used it for their calculations. The mean interval between conjunctions of the Moon and Sun make for the 29.53 days between and this has been called a 'Month'.
Please note that the calculation of new-moon to new-moon is scientifically and correctly done based on the 'conjunction' and not the sighting of a crescent as done in today's Islamic calendar. Thus, calendars can be predicted accurately years in advance based on the perfect system of design in the cosmos and not the physical sighting based on optical discrepancies.
1 month = 1 moon phase (approx. 30 days)
Again, what we know is not a coincidence is that the 'plural' occurrence of the word 'days/ayaam' in the Quran is 30 times.
The Jewish Mistake
The Jews had taken into account the movements of the sun and moon by adopted a luni-solar calendar, for which they had an intercalary month (Adaar II) which they inserted regularly into the calendar to make a 13th month to keep in-line with the true length of a year and the seasons.
YUSUFALI Verily the transposing (of a prohibited month) is an addition to Unbelief the Unbelievers are led to wrong thereby for they make it lawful one year, and forbidden another year, in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allah and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their course seems pleasing to them. But Allah guideth not those who reject Faith. (937)
The early scholars of the Quran took it to mean that this 'intercalary' month was a serious mistake and they thus abandoned its practice to the current 12-month lunar cycle.
By keeping in mind the true meaning of a 'year' as being 365 days, we can see that this is a clear mistake on behalf of the scholars and that closer examination reveals that it was not the 'intercalary' month that was being admonished, but the false Jewish practice of accelerating its insertion (every other year) which overcompensates and keeps the months out of sync with the true year.
"Know that the acceleration of the intercalary is an increase in rejection, to misguide those who have rejected by it. They make it lawful one calendar year, and they forbid it one calendar year, so as to circumvent the count that God Has made restricted; thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people." (937)
The proper system to follow is to insert an intercalary month every 3rd lunar year (not every other year as the Jews were doing), and this would bring the Solar & Lunar calendars within perfect synchronization every 19 solar years (also referred to as the Metonic Cycle). The number of times the word 'year(s)' occurs in the Quran is '19' for which we have learned that the Quran has no 'coincidences'.
The four 'restricted' months
The current 'Islamic' calendar considers the months of Muharam, Rajeb, Dhul Qida, Dhul Huja as being 'forbidden/sacred' months. What this means to an average Muslim is that these months must be 'holy' in some way... However, this is not what the Quran has said nor what needs to be understood.
"The count of the months with God is twelve months in God?s record the day He created the sky and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set-up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous. " (936)
The word 'Hurum' is more accurately translated as 'restricted/forbidden' rather than 'holy' (which is Muqadas in Arabic).
What is 'restricted'?
"O you who believe, honour your contracts. Made lawful for you are all the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you, and what you are not allowed to hunt of the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases." (51)
Here we see the Arabic word "Hurum" being placed in its proper context as 'restricted'. What is clearly restricted is the hunting of game in this period.
In-fact, the 5th chapter/sura in the Quran deals primarily with the issue of game conservation and environmental protection. The book of God is not only a book of justice for mankind, but it is also a book of life for this planet and the continuation of our species.
Now, the only reason gaming would be 'restricted' in 4 months every year would mean that this is the "mating season" for such wildlife where hunting them will lead to a rapid decline in their populations. This can only be the case if the 4-months fall within the "mating season" of these wildlife and thus they are fixed to the natural seasons the land and not wildly floating around as we have today.
Four months sequential?
"Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters. And a declaration from God and His messenger to the people on the great day of Pilgrimage ?That God and His messenger are innocent from all those who set-up partners? If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected of a painful retribution." (92-3)
Although the answer was obvious since we are dealing with gaming restrictions, the verse above confirms this fact also as being 4 sequential months. The current Islamic calendar makes months 1,7,11 & 12 as 'sacred' which is in contradiction to 92-3 above.
When does the year start?
This is by far the most difficult question that needed much time and thought.
What we have determined thus far is that the normal year is 12 lunar months, with a 13th month being inserted every 3rd lunar year to compensate for the seasonal shift. We also have determined that 4 of these months are 'restricted' from hunting any game and that they are 'sequential'.
The simplest way to start a calendar is to have a 'marker' which is repeated year after year to align the calendar to the solar movements. The measurable events which may be construed as 'markers' have been identified as follows
The Autumnal Equinox
The Vernal EquinoxThe Autumn Equinox is The date (near September 22 in the northern hemisphere) when night and day are nearly of the same length and Sun crosses the celestial equator (i.e., declination 0) moving southward (in the northern hemisphere). The autumnal equinox marks the first day of the season of autumn.
The Vernal Equinox is The date (near March 21 in the northern hemisphere) when night and day are nearly the same length and Sun crosses the celestial equator (i.e., declination 0) moving northward. The vernal equinox marks the first day of the season of spring.
The 'equinox' marks the seasonal beginning of winter & summer and which has been used as a 'marker' for the seasons.The Jewish calendar uses the 'vernal equinox' as its 'marker' and begins the year count with the first lunar month that appears on or after this date (the Jews claim that this was the time they emerged from Egypt and that God decreed to them the calendar to begin in this period).
"This should be cherished by Quraysh. The way they cherish the journey of the winter and summer. So let them worship the Lord of this House. The One who fed them from hunger, and protected them from fear. " (1061-4)
However, looking at the sequence which the Quran uses in 1061-4 above by beginning the winter before the summer, it becomes logical and natural to chose the 'Autumn Equinox' as the 'marker' for the beginning of the year.
Autumn Equinox (on or around September 23rd)
Months 1-4 are 'restricted' from hunting.
Months 5-12 are normal hunting months.
Month 13 is inserted every 3rd lunar year to keep in-line with the seasons.
How to determine when the 13th months is added?
As explained above, the system of determining the new year begins with the 1st new moon after the autumn equinox. However, since we are beginning the count of the years from 'point zero' then the issue of 'when' to insert the 13th month needs to be clarified.
If we count 12 lunar months using the Gregorian year 2003 as a start-point, then it needs to be observed if the 'new moon' of the 'new year' is falling before or after the autumn equinox. If the new moon is falling 'before' the start of the equinox, then this will be a 13 month year. If the new moon is 'on' or 'after', then it is a 12 month year.
Once the first 13th month insertion is taken care of, it will be found that 7 such insertions will take place in a 19 solar year period.
Mating Season of animals?
A quick search on the internet for the mating season of deer (to use an obvious animal) in the northern hemisphere revealed that November was the 'peak' of the mating season. This period fits perfectly in-line with the 4-restricted months designed to preserve wildlife.
When is Fasting?
Now that we have the calendar working, we need to determine when the decreed period of fasting will fall in this 12 month cycle.
"A month of Ramadhan, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide and clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Whoever from you is witness to that month, then let him fast in it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He Has guided you, that you may be thankful. " (2185)
The key to understanding which month the fast is to be held in is the word 'Ramdhan'. This word is being used today to indicate that it is the name of one of the Arabic months (the 9th to be specific) in the wildly spinning lunar calendar. However, a simple examination of the word itself reveals quite interesting meanings
Ramadh/Ramdhi/Ramadha = The period beginning autumn/rains that approach at the end of summer and beginning of autumn/the land that is still hot from summer.
Here is a 'literal' translation of 2185 which changes our understanding quite considerably
"A month beginning Autumn, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide and clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Whoever from you is witness to that month, then let him fast in it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He Has guided you, that you may be thankful. " (2185)
Thus it is the 1st month of the year that comes immediately after the Autumn Equinox (which is also the 1st of the 'restricted' months) in which fasting has been decreed.
How Long is the Fast?
Islamic scholars have determined that fasting shall be for a full lunar month based on 2185 (where it says 'Whoever from you is witness to that month, then let him fast in it'). However, the length of the fast has already been established in 2183-184 which they conveniently overlooked
"O you who believe, it is decreed for you to fast as it was decreed for those before you that you may be righteous. A few number of days. Whoever of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if you knew. " (2183-184)
Ignoring the fact that fasting is decreed to those before us (and thus is not specific to the Muslims, nor to the revelation of the Quran), the period which we are to fast has been defined by the word 'madoodat/few'. This word typically indicates a number from 3-10 as the term 'madoodat' is used for numbers which can be simply counted even by the fingers of the hand (this same word can be seen in 2203 to indicate a period of 3 days).
The answer (which number is it from 3-10) is derived from 2185 in which God say's "so that you may complete the count". The complete count for our number system is a 10-based system (2196). i.e. we when we reach 10, we start the count again with 11, 12, 13, etc.. (this is different from an 8 based system which has been used in the past or even a 7 base system).
Fasting = 10 days (these are the first 10-days of the 1st month of the new year since the fast begins with witnessing the month, thus its beginning).
A note to mention out of curiosity is that the occurrence of the word 'yawmakum/yamahum/your days/their days' is exactly 10 times in the Quran.
"It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He Has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God Has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous." (2187)
The fast is to occur from just before dawn and lasts till the night approaches.
When is the Hajj/Pilgrimage
This answer may have already been made apparent, but to close the calendar circle it should be highlighted as follows
"They ask you regarding the new moons, say ?They provide a scheduled timing for the people as well as for the Pilgrimage? And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whomever is righteous and come to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed." (2189)
"The Pilgrimage is in the months which have been appointed. So whoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor argument in the Pilgrimage. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O people of understanding." (2197)
"Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters. And a declaration from God and His messenger to the people on the great day of Pilgrimage ?That God and His messenger are innocent from all those who set-up partners? If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected a painful retribution. Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among those who have set-up partners if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they plan to attack you; you shall continue the treaty with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous. So when the restricted months are passed, then you may kill those who have set-up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and hold the assembly, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful." (92-5)
The Pilgrimage is to be held with the 'new moons' of the 4 'restricted months'. Thus, any person who wishes to perform the Pilgrimage merely has to decide in which of the 4-months he/she will pilgrim and then go ahead and do so.
How long is the pilgrimage?
"And remember God during a few number of days. Whoever hurries to two days, there is no sin upon him; and whoever delays, there is no sin upon him if he is being righteous. And be aware of God, and know that it is to Him that you will be gathered. " (2203)
"And proclaim to mankind with the pilgrimage, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure. So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall God?s name in the appointed days over what He Has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor." (2227-2
"And complete the Pilgrimage and the visit for God; if you cannot, then make what is easy of the animal sacrifice, and do not shave your heads until the animal sacrifice reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then you may redeem by fasting or giving charity or a sacrifice. If you are secure, then whoever continues the visit until the Pilgrimage, then he shall provide what he can of the animal sacrifice. As for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family do not live near the restricted Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution" (2196)
The Pilgrimage will last for the first 3-days of the 'new moon' in which God is praised for His gift of the livestock to humanity. The Pilgrimage will be covered in a separate article (God willing) highlighting he rituals and feasts associated with such an event.
Conclusion
God's calendar is one that exists in nature and which utilizes the entities of sun, moon and star to make a perfect timing mechanism that is in-line with nature and in-harmony with our movements through the universe. here is a summary of what has been explained above
The Islamic new year begins with the 1st moon after the autumn equinox (the moon is based on 'conjunction' and not sighting).The first 4 months (1-4) are 'restricted' from hunting any game, while domestic animals and the catch of the sea is lawful (see Quran 51 & 596).
The 1st of these months is the period in which fasting is decreed for 10-days as it was decreed for those before us.
The Pilgrimage is to be held in any of the 4 restricted months during the first 3-days of the 'new moon'.
After a count of 12 lunar months, if the new moon appears before the autumn equinox, then that will be the time to insert a 13th month. This insertion is done 7 times every 19 solar years to ensure an alignment of the seasons.
It is the same system that He taught to Abraham and the prophets that came after him...We now have the option to hold tight to this balanced system and regulate with it our lives, or we may abandon it to what we desire.
"And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous." (2130)
For More on Calendars
http//astro.nmsu.edu/~lhuber/leaphist.html
http//www.treasure-troves.com/astro/Calendar.html
http//library.thinkquest.org/29033/noframes.htm
http//webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar.html
http//www.ccg.org/english/s/p053.html -
Salaams all,
I believe layth said (with respect)
"If we are successful, then you should be able to give-up the systems you are using today for a system designed by the Almighty and harmonious with nature."
Looking at the following the chinese had 1900 years befor islam came the best callender system - i think,and no dought that must be given to them by God - so don't you reckon all calleneder systems we have came from God or was it just the one which he gave us via the holy quran.What do you reckon?
"Introduction
The calendar systems used in the ancient world reflect the agricultural, political and ritual needs characteristic of the societies in which they flourished. Astronomical observations to establish the winter and summer solstices were in use three to four millennia ago . By the 14th century BC the Shang Chinese had established the solar year as 365.25 days and the lunar month as 29.5 days. The lunisolar calendar, in which the ritual month is based on the Moon and the agricultural year on the Sun, was used throughout the ancient Near East (except Egypt) and Greece from the third millennium BC. Early calendars used either thirteen lunar months of 28 days or twelve alternating lunar months of 29 and 30 days and haphazard means to reconcile the 354/364-day lunar year with the 365-day solar year."Salaams.
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Salaams all ,
i can't see a callander in the quran apart from these ayats-and it doesn't give any details as to a callender system just that we can use the sun and the moon for counting the time,as i can see plus no daught there may be some mistranslation aswell as usual.It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand
The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those
Can you see a callender?
Bye.
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ooof. I must disagree here.
Just because we use the Lunar calendar is 11 days shorter than the Solar, doesn't mean that it's out of whack. God knows this and I'm sure it's on purpose. Ramadhan moves around every year, and this in itself is a blessing for a religion that covers the whole world.
The month of fasting is sometimes in the winter months and sometimes in the summer months, depending on where you are located. This is a mercy, so that those who are in the upper lattitudes dont have to deal with long days of fasting every single year. In 19 years, you've fasted Ramadhan in every possible season and length of day.
And yes, the Qur'an BEGAN being revealed on a specific night, but who's to say it's a specific night according to the solar count? The Sun is used to regulate our daily rituals and counting the hours, whereas the Moon is used for counting the years and holy events. I suspect it's the Moon-Earth alignment that is most important here, since night time is constnatly referred to be the best time for praying. While the Sun has always been associated with idolatry, how many times does the Qur'an mention God's prophets coming to a people "Ya3bidoun al-Shams", worhsipping the Sun. The choosing of a Lunar cycle could very well be Divine Wisdom in showing poeple that the Sun is nothing more than a light to set our day of time with.
Wallahu a3lam.
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Salaams Mo,
please see this to know what are the forbidden months and then you might agree that the western callender of twelve months is idealy -quranic.
Because if you believe what this guy is saying then the forbidden months need to be fixed.
http//www.free-minds.org/Arab_Conspiracy.html
Salaams.
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Salaam brother.
Ya i read that article when i first started considering the Qur'an Only movement, which i found very attractive. But after reading it, i got completely turned off from the whole thing and went back to tradition. To me, it shows to what extent people can twist meanings of words in order to make them anytyhing, especially in Arabic because of the root system.
I mean, whatever ) I completely disagree with the whole calendar argument, and i've argued my point quite well on the other thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=59133#59133To claim an arab conspiracy against Islam and Allah is waaaay out there. And i should know, because i believe in an NWO/Illuminati conspiracy. But to say that after 1400 years of history, which included 1000 years of cultural, scientific, medical superiority of Arabs and Muslims over the entire world, that all that was based on falsehood is completely CRAZY.
Aidid has shown nothing more than his lack of historical sense and displays a great imagination. Rock worship!? HAHAHA
Granted the Muslims have gone into decadence in the past 200 years due to both external and internal factors, but to say that the whole of Islam is a sham. Not buying it.
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To claim an arab conspiracy against Islam and Allah is waaaay out there. And i should know, because i believe in an NWO/Illuminati conspiracy. But to say that after 1400 years of history, which included 1000 years of cultural, scientific, medical superiority of Arabs and Muslims over the entire world, that all that was based on falsehood is completely CRAZY.
But you have no problem with a brotherhood of ideas who have been manipulating for some 5000 years that we know of.???
Or a manipulative vatican that held christianity hostage for some 1500 years?
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But you have no problem with a brotherhood of ideas who have been manipulating for some 5000 years that we know of.???
Or a manipulative vatican that held christianity hostage for some 1500 years?
No because the proof of that conspiracy is clear as day. and in my mind, the only safe haven against all that has been the Muslim world..and hence its been the focus of so many attacks in the recent past..nameely the last couple hundred years.
One thing i have learned while researching the conspiracies is not to be too gullible of everything, and this specific bit deserves alot more of my scrutiny than any other conspiracy because it would mean that even God's order has been compromised, and if i was a Quranite..then maybe Id find this alot easier to swallow. But im not, at least not yet. The evidence for following Allah and His Messenger are too overwhelming to ignore.
"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."
That instruction must've served for something.
"And We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought."
"And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou should make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe."The prophet wasn't simply a messenger, but a teach and a judge amongst us.
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."He tells us what is forbidden and what is lawful..not just the Quran.
And of course there's more. Now im not advocating the blind acceptance of all Hadith. But the Sunna itself, which i maintain is seperate from Hadith, is practice..physical ritual that was passed down generation after generation since the time of the prophet. Much harder to invent than sayings if you ask me. People didnt just start performing the Hajj out of nowhere. Or pray 5 times a day out of nowhere.
There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.
Im not ready to follow the whims of a comfortably fed westernized mind that tells me what Islam should be..1400 after the fact..while denying 1400 years of amazing history for Islam and Muslims....
Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...
We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.
There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.
Therefore, Imams are people who are "in the know". Anyone cannot become an Imam. That would be pure ignorance. Allah (swt) commands the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Allah (swt) command us that if we have doubt about the message that was sent from Allah (swt), then ASK THOSE WHO KNOW
And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.
Also, we read
If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.
So no..you will not see a verse saying "follow Imam Bukhari" (altho i dont agree with Bukhari..but for sake of argument) is not the type of language that the Qur'an uses and you should know that. Allah does not go down to such specific level. He would then have to mention every other shcolar by name too. Also, too much importance would be given to Imam Bukhari if he was commanded to be followed by name. There is wisdom in all this. Allah (swt) is the knower of All things. He uses words of wisdom and that carry an absolute truth meaning in them. He doesn't use words just because some idiot on free-minds.org (sorry) doesn't understand simple language and needs to redefine a word according to the PRL. In fact He delibrately uses words that carry vast meaning so that in His Divine language, the word encompasses many things.
Lets not deny either that each verse has meaning upon meaning upon meaning. This is known...so ur efforts here will end up misleading many..while maybe leading a few..im sorry to say..but that is my assessment so far )
soooooo drop the issue of my acceptance of the Quran Only method for now.
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No because the proof of that conspiracy is clear as day. and in my mind, the only safe haven against all that has been the Muslim world..and hence its been the focus of so many attacks in the recent past..nameely the last couple hundred years.
Another perspective could be that God is telling us something. The muslim world is not excacty a beacon of light, so obviously something did go horribly wrong.
One thing i have learned while researching the conspiracies is not to be too gullible of everything, and this specific bit deserves alot more of my scrutiny than any other conspiracy because it would mean that even God's order has been compromised, and if i was a Quranite..then maybe Id find this alot easier to swallow. But im not, at least not yet. The evidence for following Allah and His Messenger are too overwhelming to ignore.
there is no evidence that following the messenger means to follow scriptures other than Qur'aan
"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."
That instruction must've served for something.
Yes obviously, he came to a people who had'nt had a messenger before. So they would indeed need it to be explained. But we can read that other people allready knew e.g salat.
"And We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought."
"And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou should make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe."
The prophet wasn't simply a messenger, but a teach and a judge amongst us.
Yes, and he used Qur'aan to do so and nothing else. And he told us to do the same. thank you for proving my point especially with the last verse posted.
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
I agree, and all we need to do is read Qur'aan to find out what that was all about.
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."
yes we should indeed share the spoils of war
He tells us what is forbidden and what is lawful..not just the Quran.
"Oh Prophet, WHY do you forbid "TUHARAM" that which God has made lawful "AHAL" in order to please your wives. God is Merciful and Forgiving. God has decreed to you how to revoke your oaths, and God is your Lord. He is most Wise and Knowledgeable" (66/1-2)
He was however not allowed to invent any laws. Several "laws" are added through hadeeth and sunna. The law can be found in Qur'aan
And of course there's more. Now im not advocating the blind acceptance of all Hadith. But the Sunna itself, which i maintain is seperate from Hadith, is practice..physical ritual that was passed down generation after generation since the time of the prophet. Much harder to invent than sayings if you ask me. People didnt just start performing the Hajj out of nowhere. Or pray 5 times a day out of nowhere.
No both practices were likely to have been practiced before the prophet, and then just continued when he died, and ascribed to him. But this is my oppinion, not a fact. You know, in my family we have always cut of the end of the roast of thrown that out. Everybody did this, and told that is because how grandmom did hers, and it was wonderfull.
So i asked grandmom, why? And she told me, well actually its from my mother, out pot was not big enough for the roast so we had to cut off the end. So here we have a ritual that all abide by in the belief that it does something to the quality of the meal, when in fact the explanation was really simple and streight forward.There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.
Yes, as seen on the succes it wields in the world. Im not buying that for a minute. He altso tells us that if we follow THE MAJORITY, we will be wrong.
Im not ready to follow the whims of a comfortably fed westernized mind that tells me what Islam should be..1400 after the fact..while denying 1400 years of amazing history for Islam and Muslims....
There is a lot of historical "facts" that i dont accept. this is just one more of them.
Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...
Then why give it to us? why not just give us the explanation you belive is from the Prophet? and spare the paper of Qur'aan?
We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.
There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.
But only if he follow the path that you yourself do right?
Therefore, Imams are people who are "in the know". Anyone cannot become an Imam. That would be pure ignorance. Allah (swt) commands the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Allah (swt) command us that if we have doubt about the message that was sent from Allah (swt), then ASK THOSE WHO KNOW
And this would be whom, according to you?
And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.
Also, we read
If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
So who are they, do you reckon?
so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.
I find it more arrogant to claim that God cannot communicate a book to his servants that they can understand and use as a practical tool in their lifes. But we can easily understand 50.000 pages of story's written by saintly schoolars. It just doesnt fly...
...In fact He delibrately uses words that carry vast meaning so that in His Divine language, the word encompasses many things.
Thank you for agreeing with us all. Because that is what you do right here. This is why the socalled Quranic movements may appear not to be succesfull. No, they are not succesfull as cults, that is true. But as personal enlightenment they are very.
Lets not deny either that each verse has meaning upon meaning upon meaning. This is known...so ur efforts here will end up misleading many..while maybe leading a few..im sorry to say..but that is my assessment so far )
soooooo drop the issue of my acceptance of the Quran Only method for now.
You are entitled to your oppinion. I disagree though.
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Another perspective could be that God is telling us something. The muslim world is not excacty a beacon of light, so obviously something did go horribly wrong.
Ya not today, nor for the last little while. But any historian will tell you of the great multicultural and rational civilization that existed in Muslim lands. Of course they didn't reinvent the wheel they absorbed greek philosophy and took it to the next level, they adopted indian numerals but applied them to make algebra and calculus, they collected medical knowledge from all poeples and consolidated that and took it further. all based on injunctions to "walk the Earth and see how God began Creation"
Yes obviously, he came to a people who had'nt had a messenger before. So they would indeed need it to be explained. But we can read that other people allready knew e.g salat.
But we are a people who've never had a Messenger. In the same way that the Arabs didn't. They KNEW of other Messengers since you had Yahud and Nasara living among them. And they used to trade with Syria and Abyssinia and Yemen, so they have been exposed to these ideas. And some of the Arabs followed those religions and not all were Kuffar. So i see that all common-folk need it explained.
But ok, lets say we can all interpret it as we please, wouldnt this cause more division than anything. Simple example of the Mu'tazillat. They were Quranites, and in the end they ended up disagreeing amongst each other over everything because there was no standard of interpretation.
btw. So salaat to you is not simply a "commitment" as many say on here?
Yes, and he used Qur'aan to do so and nothing else. And he told us to do the same. thank you for proving my point especially with the last verse posted.
Ok but since he's the best of the explainer, shouldn't we follow an example or setup some basic sense of a standard? Are we better than him that we can explain it using nothing else, not even the aid of Jibril, as he did? And his companions would refer everything to him so he would judge among them, otherwise they would've disbelieved.
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
I agree, and all we need to do is read Qur'aan to find out what that was all about.
Qur'an First. But not Qur'an Alone. )
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."
yes we should indeed share the spoils of war
OK ill give you that one...but im gonna get back at you for it...
"Oh Prophet, WHY do you forbid "TUHARAM" that which God has made lawful "AHAL" in order to please your wives. God is Merciful and Forgiving. God has decreed to you how to revoke your oaths, and God is your Lord. He is most Wise and Knowledgeable" (66/1-2)
He was however not allowed to invent any laws. Several "laws" are added through hadeeth and sunna. The law can be found in Qur'aan
And here it is...Read verse 3 and 4. My quote ended up being about spoils of war, and yours is about back biting and what was said between wives that the prophet was made aware of. So both example don't prove either one of our arguments )
No both practices were likely to have been practiced before the prophet, and then just continued when he died, and ascribed to him. But this is my oppinion, not a fact.
But if that were the case, why would Salaat and Hajj be mentioned in the Qur'an? Not only that, the Salaat and Hajj of the Kuffar is mentioned to be meaningless because it was flawed and the prophet cleansed it. Hence he practiced it in his own life. Wouldn't God have said to cease this practice completely? No. In fact the opposite is what we find. Yes those practices were there, just as the Kaaba was there, all as remnants of the faith/practice that Ismael and Ibrahim taught the nomads as they settled Mecca. And later obviously it became a site of pilgrimmage to pagan idols because the worship of the One God was lost in the sands of time, as has happened so many times before. This may not be Quranic fact, but if the Quran doesn't mention the presence of Sharks in the sea, does that mean they don't exist? )
You know, in my family we have always cut of the end of the roast of thrown that out. Everybody did this, and told that is because how grandmom did hers, and it was wonderfull.
So i asked grandmom, why? And she told me, well actually its from my mother, out pot was not big enough for the roast so we had to cut off the end. So here we have a ritual that all abide by in the belief that it does something to the quality of the meal, when in fact the explanation was really simple and streight forward.Very good example, and i can see how that can happen with religion. But i totally disagree that it has happned in Islam. We can clearly see how it's happened for the People of the Book because even they cannot trace most of their rituals to Isa or Musa or whoever they claim to follow. Our prophet lived in the full light of history and the chain of PRACTICE (forget Hadith for now) is unbroken since.
There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.
Yes, as seen on the succes it wields in the world. Im not buying that for a minute. He altso tells us that if we follow THE MAJORITY, we will be wrong.
But doesn't the Qur'an say that if we follow God we will be successful in THIS world AND the NEXT? Fine when you talk about the majority, but the majority of what? Humankind? Then Muslims are not a majority. And i think that verse is more appropriate when seen in light of what was happening in Mecca, instructing the early Muslims and reassuring them when they were a tiny minority.
See what i mean? Without a basis or a standard, we can fit the Qur'an into any argument we want.
Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...
Then why give it to us? why not just give us the explanation you belive is from the Prophet? and spare the paper of Qur'aan?
Don't go to the other extreme of Hadith Only. Obviously the Qur'an is peace for the hearts of men, and in it is great wisdom and we're still discovering the meanings of many verses that were considered metaphorical back in the day, so the Book itself is timeless. But on specifics and in matters of daily lives, the life of the prophet is a clear example.
We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.
There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.
But only if he follow the path that you yourself do right?
The paths to Allah are as numerous as the numbers of breaths on Earth. - Ali.
And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.
Also, we read
If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
So who are they, do you reckon?
I don't know yet, but it certainly isn't a freeminder at this point )
so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.
I find it more arrogant to claim that God cannot communicate a book to his servants that they can understand and use as a practical tool in their lifes. But we can easily understand 50.000 pages of story's written by saintly schoolars. It just doesnt fly...
If it's that easy to understand on a personal basis, where is the full analysis of the Book? Of every part of it to be used in everyday life? What about all the details of daily life? Ya it can probably be all summed up by the 10 commandments even, but that hardly suffices in our day and age.
Thank you for agreeing with us all. Because that is what you do right here. This is why the socalled Quranic movements may appear not to be succesfull. No, they are not succesfull as cults, that is true. But as personal enlightenment they are very.
Perhaps yes. But then why would the Qur'an call us the best community to ever rise up from mankind, if its only working on a personal enlightenment basis. This is starting to smell like new-ageism....
You are entitled to your oppinion. I disagree though.
Great ) Respect rocks.
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In Muhammad (PBUH)'s last year (11AH) he emphasised that there were twelve months in that year and after. This means the previous year had the intercalary 1st month which used to be called Nasi and that some people believed his last year should also have 13 months. What probably happened was that his announcement was misunderstood and the next year without him around they simply continue the 12 lunar month system every year repeated again year after year. People were probably unsure whether or not they should insert the intercalary month until after 6 years, in the month of Shabban, Caliph Omar decided the 12 lunar month system which they had been following since the death of Muhammad (PBUH) should become official and unchangeable. Traditionally the fact that a man owed him money on a certain date in shabban tipped the scales, and acknowledgement that there had been two intercalary months would have meant waiting another two months for the debt to be repaid.
Omar also decided that the year of the migration 11 years before Muhammad (PBUH)'s death should be the first year. He remembered the day Muhammad arrived in Medina as Monday 8th of Rabi when the 1st of Muharram was (the new year) began on a Thursday. There was no calculation involved other than Muhammad (PBUH) died 6 years ago. 11 years before that was the year of the migration. Therefore the current year was 17 years since the migration, so 1 muharram 17 years ago should be the start of the AH system.
If the year before Muhammad (PBUH) died was the intercalary month then by the time Omar made his decision 2 intercalary months had probebly passed. If on the other hand anyone believes thaty it would be the year after Muhammad (PBUH) died that was supposed to include the intercalary month then still by the time Omar made his decision only 2 intercalary months would have been lost. So all we have to do to pinpoint Ramadhan in the last year of Muhammad (PBUH) is to push the date Ramadan occurred in 17AH forward by two lunar months. Simple!
Not at all surprisingly, the answer we arrive at is that the Islamic 9th month Ramadaan corresponds exactly with the 9th Jewish month Kislev -always has, always will. Thus the 1st of Muharram corresponds exactly with the 1st of Nissan. This by the way is no new discovery at all. Any retrocalculation software will tell you that in 632AD the year Muhammad (PBUH) died Ramadaan began around 22 Nov.
The day Muhammad arrived in Medina on Monday 8th of Rabi (1) in the year when the 1st of Muharram (new year's day) was on a Thursday was the 27th of May 622AD. Because this is the only year that 1 Nissan which we have already established was the 1st of Muharram was on a Thursday (Thursday the 21st of March 622AD which also happened to be the spring equinox).
It is all very simple mathematics really and does not need elaborate Quranic exegesis to establish the date. You could have asked any Sufi.
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Salaam all!
I started out liking this idea about the calendar,but the more I Read the replies Im against it.......- Quran says---12 months,correct?,with no mention of a intercalery month,to add one would be to add to what Allah has stated,and the Quran is Complete..
- There is to much contraversy as to when to begin the yr,if its a certain time or date then the Quran has to say so,for Allah has left nothing out.Therefore if its not mentioned then there is no rule to set the exact date.If we try to then that would be saying Allah left something out that is relevent.
So by reason there is no reason to accept another way besides what is generally accepted..So No real need for change on this subject,imo...
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Peace Hamza,
i don't know if you've read the whole threads. There is a lot of stuff to ingest and for sure a lot of controversy. But , even though fasting with the rest of the "muslim" world might be ok, the calendar is purely manmade and for sure not one initiated in the times of the prophet, but after his death, by Kalif Omar.
lk
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Peace Hamza,
i don't know if you've read the whole threads. There is a lot of stuff to ingest and for sure a lot of controversy. But , even though fasting with the rest of the "muslim" world might be ok, the calendar is purely manmade and for sure not one initiated in the times of the prophet, but after his death, by Kalif Omar.
lk
Peace Elke,
Yes I read the entire thread and just got through reading the article on FM/PM site again,and most of it seems reasonable,but The Sufi made some better arguments for the the beginning of Muharam and when Ramadan is..Because Ramadan suggests an autumn month like the FM/PM article says,therfore it makes since that Ramadan would fall in Nov/Dec..since Winter doesnt begin until Dec 21st in the Northern Hemisphere.Beginning the yr in Autumn like the article says doesnt make since based on the fact that would put Ramadan in Apr-May in the spring and not autumn like the name Ramadan implies..
So I agree with the view that if the calendar is to be a fixed one then the new year would began at the spring equinox at the same time that Allah led the Isralites out of Egypt.And Ramadan(an autumn month) would fall in Nov-Dec.,the last month of Autumn. -
Preocupation with when the intercalary month should occur is something the Quran seems to be against. The year divides very naturally into 4 equal quarters with the two equinoxes and two solstices. Even without the sun and the moon these quaters exist because they are stellar phenomena. There are 12 moths in Allah(SWT)'s reckoning, so each quater must naturally have 3 months. We are not told that new moons are for the beginnings of the months, but that the new moons are for the beginnings of festivals (in the 12 months). So the new moon of the last third of the autumn quater (21 Sept-21Dec) whether it be near the beginning of that last third, or near the end, was clearly when Ramadan began, every year until the death of Muhammad (SAW).
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I just read on here http//www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/The%20Islamic%20Jewish%20Calendar.pdf that Ramadan means heat,if thats true then Ramadan means the month of heat not autumn and falls in line with it being in Apr/May and Muharram being in Aug/Sept corresponding with the Hebrew New Year of Rosh Hashanna.
? ? ?And what about
"And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous." (2130)
Its a well known fact that Abraham kept the Hebrew calendar and Muhammad adopted Ros e Ashura(Yom Kippur) which falls in the Hebrew month of Tishri(Sept/Oct),so Muharram should be the same as Tishri.
So the Islamic year of 1427 would begin on Sept 22nd this yr the same day that the Hebrew festival of Rosh Hashana is on..
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Fine, except it goes against the historical fact that Ramadaan coincided with Chislev in the last year that The Prophet (PBUH) was alive when he declared the absence of the intercaliary month. Thus up until this year (632) Ramadaan would have naturally coincided with Chislev every year.
BTW Chislev is also the month of burning for the festival of lights.
