Koranic science
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many christians do not take biblical science literally and they do not see that as a problem.
is it ok for a muslim to not take quranic science literally? (please see The Top 30 Problems with the Big Bang)
for those of you that believe that quranic science must be taken literally can you please quote a verse in the quran to prove your point, god did say that his book is complete.
I see no contradiction in not taking quranic science literally and still believing that the quran is divine in origin.
Your thoughts?
peace
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many christians do not take biblical science literally and they do not see that as a problem.
is it ok for a muslim to not take quranic science literally? (please see The Top 30 Problems with the Big Bang)
for those of you that believe that quranic science must be taken literally can you please quote a verse in the quran to prove your point, god did say that his book is complete.
I see no contradiction in not taking quranic science literally and still believing that the quran is divine in origin.
Your thoughts?
peace
Give me an example of something that does not correlate with todays studies. If anything the Qur'an has many things in it that are too alike to todays observations of the universe to have appeared from that time (unless from God).
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i've already cited a paper about my beef with the big bang in the first post....
take for example the big crunch theory mentioned in the quran, many scientists are rejecting it now.
The purpose of the thread is not really to go into a debate about whether quranic science is accurate or not, or whether the quran is well ahead of its time (i reckon that much of the science was known at the time), I want to concentrate on the fact why some people would consider not taking quranic science literally would be unislamic, for those of you that believe that not taking quranic science literally is forbidden please provide a verse to prove it, or anything in the quran to support your claim.
thanks.
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My understanding as a current University level Physicist is that WE as scientists never really know what we are talking about. All we have are THEORIES that much our observations and results. If something wholly new and irresistibly clearer comes along we change the theory slightly to try and encompass this new revelation. The link you posted is what happens in science all the time, errors or new investigations arise, and the old Theory has to be revisited or trashed. This does not take anything away from the Qur'an, it means we need a better explanation.
The truth is God says He knows everything. He's not going to tell us everything in the Qur'an, the Qur'an is not a science textbook and it was revealed to a simple people and was intended for ALL time. Therefore there are some signs in the Qur'an that were ambiguous to the early Muslims that we understand now - big bang, embryology, the orbit of the sun and the Moon - and there maybe some things in the Qur'an we truly do not understand yet. (unit of creation, beast of the earth, Seven Heavens) Just because we do not know what they mean yet does not mean that they are fables or imaginary ideas. If you see a correlation that God is 100% right about all He has told us about the Worldthen we can extrapolate that everything else in the Qur'an is true if we do not yet understand it. There is NO Qur'anic Science, there are signs in the Qur'an presented to us. Science is a study and observation of the Universe. The Qur'an is not showing us science but signs and telling us to investigate. The Bible does not do that. God tells you go out and see My Signs! Go out and use your senses!
Bottom line if you do not believe God signs are correct, you believe God cannot convey his Creation to man, which is saying God is NOT All-knowing. Therefore you cannot essentially believe there is ANY falsehood in the Qur'an and then believe in Allah, its a contradiction. We as humans are trying to understand God's creation, remember our place, we came from sperm, and there was a time when we were not around. We are hear now, God's universe is here, God created and and knows full well whats going on. He tells us some of it in the Qur'an briefly so we can reflect but our knowledge is almost infinitessimal compared to God's.
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Realistically, when you quote scientists, you are quoting people who believed the ATOM was the smallest thing in the Universe. But we progressed and found there are much smaller elemental particles. When you quote scientists you put a lot of faith in them. But in the science World when it comes to things like the Quantum World, General Relativity, Special Relativity, String Theory etc the pioneers of these theories will say they do not have a clue what is going on. You can find the quotes of the greats Feynman, Einstein, Bohr, Schrodinger. God's understanding is limitless. The Qur'an doesn't present any verses that says it is Un"islamic" to not take the Signs literally. But you know in your heart that when God is explaining things to you he is telling you about his creation he says "Perhaps you will consider" he does NOT say "Perhaps you will imagine what it would be like"!! God makes it very clear He is talking about HIS creation. NOT some parable that doesn't bear any relevance to the Truth. Why do you think God refers to himself as the Truth? Do you think that water coming down from clouds, our the heavens being a secure canopy were made up by God for our comfort? It is a reality. What we do not know now does not take away anything from the Qur'an it just means we do not understand yet...not that God explained it incorrectly...
Peace
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i've already cited a paper about my beef with the big bang in the first post....
take for example the big crunch theory mentioned in the quran, many scientists are rejecting it now.
The Quran descibes a form of creation of the universe, it is mostly interpretated as the Bigbang. But it can also be understood as referring to Inflation theory or M-String theory, 2 theories that are accepted by the majority of scientists.
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i've already cited a paper about my beef with the big bang in the first post....
take for example the big crunch theory mentioned in the quran, many scientists are rejecting it now.
The purpose of the thread is not really to go into a debate about whether quranic science is accurate or not, or whether the quran is well ahead of its time (i reckon that much of the science was known at the time), I want to concentrate on the fact why some people would consider not taking quranic science literally would be unislamic, for those of you that believe that not taking quranic science literally is forbidden please provide a verse to prove it, or anything in the quran to support your claim.
thanks.
The Quran constantly refers to nature as its proof for God and that we must investigate it. In verses 3190-194 it is even made clear that nations who do not study nature will not be using their full potential and are thus condemned to the Fire, meaning they burn away their own potential to progress.
3191 (Such men and women of understanding keep reflecting upon how
God?s Laws operate in the Universe) Standing, sitting, and reclining, they
observe, and reflect upon God's creation of the heavens and the earth and
wonder, "Our Lord! You have not created all this without Purpose. High Above You are from creating anything in vain! Save us, then, from being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus, getting condemned to Fire.?(When humans harness the forces of Nature and use them for the common good of all, they move away from Hell and close to Paradise in both lives 4513-14. The Quran constanly refers to us the importance of scientific observation and testing, as the Quran guides into creating the correct understanding and relation of Reality. Because of this constant reference to Nature as proof of God, and that it exposes parts of His Will next to Revelation, the early Muslims started to investigate Nature and discovered many things, which Western Historians call the ?Golden Age?, which later on started the Enlightment of Europe. Under the Guidance of the Quran, the Early Muslims created the ways of scientific exploration that is still used today. 7185, 1736, 8817-21)
So to me it is logical it also mentions some points about nature that we now understand as true. And yes there were some matters known to the people of the time of Muhammed, but to have them all together in one book, and all of them correct is to intruiging to me to dismiss as a coincidence.
I have had some discussions with Dr. Shabbir where he rather saw a verse as metaphotical referring to a sociological concept while I saw it more referring to a natural phenomena. So it depends on your personal preferences.
Verses demanding we must investigate nature
7185 Can they not see (and correlate what he tells them with) the Dominion of the heavens and the earth and what Allah has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their own life may be near (hence the time to make the right decisions is not unlimited)? What HADITH (besides the Qur?an), are they going to believe after him?
1736 And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, Sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (And so, the insane and the disabled will have their incapacities taken into account in a court of law)
8817-21 Will they not, then, look at
- the water-laden clouds, how they are made? (1522).
- And at the sky, how it is raised high? (Without visible pillars 132).
- And at the mountains, how they are entrenched?
- And at the earth, how it is spread out? (That you do not even feel the
sphere, nor feel its speedy rotations 3110, 395, 7928-30).
Remind them, for you are one to remind.
1679 Have they not considered the birds enabled to fly in mid-air, with none but Allah holding them aloft? (2471). In this, behold, are messages for those who wish to attain conviction through reason.
4013 He it is Who shows you His Signs in the Universe and sends down sustenance for you from the sky. Yet none learns a lesson except those who turn to seek the Truth.
4233 And if He so wills He calms the winds so that they come to a halt on its surface. Herein, behold, are signs for everyone who is patient (in reading the Book of Nature) and grateful (for what he learns).
695-6 Allah is the One Who causes the grains and the seeds to split and germinate. He produces the living from the dead, and the dead from the living. Such is Allah. Where are you headed in bewilderment? (Similar are the Laws that apply to individuals and nations. They must develop their inherent potentials in order to prosper.)
He is the Cleaver of the daybreak. He has appointed the night for stillness, (rest and tranquility) and the sun and the moon to run their well-calculated courses. They become means of calculating time for you (105). Such is the Design of the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing.105-6 He it is, Who appointed the sun as a splendid glow, and the moon as a cool light. He appointed stages for the moon, in due measure. You make your calculations and calendars accordingly (697, 1712). Allah has created the Universe as the Absolute Reality and for a Purpose. (It is neither a dream, nor a reflection of the world of ideas). Allah details His Verses for those who wish to learn.
In the difference of day and night, and all that Allah has created in the heavens and the earth, there are signs for those who wish to walk aright.1432 (Think about the Source of your wealth and provision). Allah it is Who has created the heavens and the earth, and sends down water from the sky, thereby producing fruit and vegetation as provision for you. And He makes ships and boats to be of service to you that they sail in the sea by His Command, and has made of service to you the rivers.
See more 1712; 2130-2133; 2561-2562; 3020-3025; 3110,3131;
4311 And He it is Who sends down water from the sky in due measure. And We revive with it a dead land, thus will you be brought forth.
4312 And He it is Who has created all things in pairs and He it is Who has given you all those ships and quadrupeds on which you ride. (See 3636)
2443 Have you not seen how God drives the clouds, then gathers them, then makes them layers, and then you see the rain coming forth from them? He sends down, from the heights, hail and loads of snow to cover some ground and leave some uncovered, according to His Laws. The flashes of lightning and the brightness of the snow dazzle the Sight, all but snatching it away. (219-20)
1522 And We send the winds as pollinators that fertilize plants, and cause
water to come down from the height for you to drink. Who holds the stores of the Universe? You do not. (5141)2130 Are the unbelievers not aware (after this proclamation) that the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass that We exploded into parting? And that out of water We made every living thing? Will they not, then, acknowledge the Truth?
5147 And it is We who have built the Universe with power, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it. (?Samaa? = Sky = Heaven = Allegorically the Universe. ?Bi-Ayidin? = With hands = With power)
2133 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit.
395 He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth to fulfill a definite Purpose. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon, each running along its course for a term appointed. Is not He the Almighty, the Ever-Absolver of Imperfections?
8611 Witness is the high atmosphere that keeps returning (its water, gases and other composition).
229 He it is Who has created for you whatever is on earth ? all of it. And He has applied His Design to the High Cosmos and fashioned it in several ascending heights. He is the Supreme Knower of what all things are destined to be. (117, 5331, 571-2.)
2131 And We have set firm mountains (as pegs) on the earth, lest it sway with them (1615) And We have made therein broad roadways so that they might find their way.
2788 And the powerful elite that you deem firm as mountains, will float around like weightless clouds. Such is the Design of God Who disposes off all things in perfect order. Surely, He is fully Aware of what you do.
5725 Indeed, We sent Our Messengers with the evident Truth and revealed with them the Law and the Standard of right and wrong that mankind may deal in justice. And We have bestowed on from high the iron in which there is awesome power and many benefits for people. For, God marks out those who help Him and His Messengers although the victory may initially be obscure to them. Surely, God is Strong, Almighty.
2440 Or total darkness in the midst of a deep ocean, with waves upon waves and a thick cloud above - darkness upon darkness. When he holds out his hand, he can barely see it. For, whomever God deprives of light, will have no light.
9615 Nay, if such a person desists not, We will seize him by the forelobe (to a state of humiliation 1156)
754 Yes indeed, We have the Power to restore his very finger tips.
303 In the lowest lands close-by; yet it is they, who despite this defeat of theirs, shall be victorious.
1254 The King said, "Bring him to me so that I may appoint him a close
adviser to me." And when he had spoken with him, the King decreed, "From today on you have a high standing with us, invested with all trust."698 And He it is Who initiated you from a single life cell. Then in the process of evolution He appointed stages, from one station to the next destination. (Thus goes on the journey of life here and in the Hereafter (116) We have explained Our Laws for people who will learn and understand.
7930 And after that He made the earth shoot out from the Cosmic Nebula and made it spread out egg-shaped.
5533 O Communities of the nomads and the urban! If you can break through the fences of the heavens and the earth, then, break through. Never can you break through without an Authority. Can you bring any evidence?
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loved ya posts soof handshake
so ya planning a career in physics, any particular field?
exactly how many theories are you told in Uni?
and great post arnold handshake
I have had some discussions with Dr. Shabbir where he rather saw a verse as metaphotical referring to a sociological concept while I saw it more referring to a natural phenomena. So it depends on your personal preferences.
so would you consider doing your own translation of the quran without shabbir? when reading QXP last year i noticed a few verses there which contradicted with your posts on the board.
when I said that
not taking quranic science literally is not unislamic per sei was not implying that god was lying or that he made mistakes, there are many interpretations of the quran and I feel uncomfortable in taking a literal interpretation unless I am 100% sure.Theres a lesson behind every story in the quran (even if you don't notice it the first time ya read it), but does it matter if the stories are not actually true? I don't think it does, all that matters is that we learn the lessons from them.
There are grey areas like the creation story in the quran, both evolution and creationism can be interpreted, yet when looking at the science papers of both theories I have beef with both of them, both theories have gaps and plenty of holes, in both groups the supporters of one theory belittle the other, so i take an indifferent stance to the creation story in the quran, coz it makes no difference to me.
The reason i think it is not important to take
quranic scienceliterally is because it colors your thinking and limits your mind, someone with pre-conveived ideas has limited themselves before they even began the investigation. Take for example an evengelical christian that has made his mind up about creationism before he's even considered the option of evolution.So if the quran says X when talking about a law/theory for something and I end up believing in Y and take the quranic verses as figurative because I believe that there is more evidence for Y then there is for X I don't see how doing that contradicts the fact that someone can believe that the quran is divine in origin. The quran is not an easy book to understand, and no matter how hard we try we will never understand the
mind of god.1736 And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, Sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (And so, the insane and the disabled will have their incapacities taken into account in a court of law)
peace
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and great post arnold handshake
so would you consider doing your own translation of the quran without shabbir? when reading QXP last year i noticed a few verses there which contradicted with your posts on the board.
Peace,
No, not yet, first I want to finish my degree in Arabic at the university and study more on Quranic interpretation. And yes, Dr. Shabbir and I do differ on some issues and I would translate differently then him. But his approach I agree on.
The funny thing is, the same problem you mentioned on Qurnaic interpretation we also have in science, see this great interview with prof. Paul davies
http//deenrc.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/we-are-meant-to-be-here-paul-davies.doc
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interesting.
however claims that we can go back in time are too silly to even consider, they should be left in the science fiction section lol
No, not yet, first I want to finish my degree in Arabic at the university and study more on Quranic interpretation. And yes, Dr. Shabbir and I do differ on some issues and I would translate differently then him. But his approach I agree on
i heard on the islam channel that learning quranic arabic takes 8 years, is that true?
so how many year will we have to wait for your translation to come out? D
soof, arnold, just curious; do you guys believe in the "pancake theory" for the collapse of world trade centres?
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yearssssssssss...
As for 9/11, I have seen some many sides and theories, I only know that the US government knew it and allowed it to happen. How much was done by themselves on that day I do not know and care. Allowing is the same as doing it yourself in my eyes.
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interesting.
however claims that we can go back in time are too silly to even consider, they should be left in the science fiction section lol
i heard on the islam channel that learning quranic arabic takes 8 years, is that true?
so how many year will we have to wait for your translation to come out?
soof, arnold, just curious; do you guys believe in the "pancake theory" for the collapse of world trade centres?
Peace
I don't know what I'ms going to do in the future I'm in my 2nd year. I could go into research or just go get a job
Its funny at the moment we're given everything at face value at university. With cosmology (a module in physics) we have to memorise facts (which are in essence theories and aren't to be take as Gospel truth) inflation, big bang, CMB, Dark Matter etc. But the field of Cosmology is ever changing, its probably the most questioned aspect of physics, because we can't prove a lot of the facts, its all based on observations, which may or may not be wrong. But I agree the Big Bang/Big Crunch theory needs to be reassessed and it is faulty. At the same time I do not believe the Qur'an is mistaken because we only INFER God is talking about OUR theory of the Big Bang/origin of the universe. Whereas God knows truly what happened and said it as simply and clearly as possible. Hopefully as intelligent human beings we come to an understanding that is more strong than current theories God willing. In the end Muslims were in the 8th century the forward thinkers of Science, they embraced Scientific theories all over the world when it was rejected by the Christian World. The SOLE reason for that is because the investigations and the quest for knowledge and the observations made of the universe did not go against/contradict the faith. And it never will.Ooooh someone's been watching Zeitgeist It looks very convincing when you watch the twin towers collapse. s Im unsure it was staged but the collapse looks to perfect to have just happened by a plane. But I better shut up before secret services arrest me for conspiracy.
Peace
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So if the quran says X when talking about a law/theory for something and I end up believing in Y and take the quranic verses as figurative because I believe that there is more evidence for Y then there is for X I don't see how doing that contradicts the fact that someone can believe that the quran is divine in origin. The quran is not an easy book to understand, and no matter how hard we try we will never understand the
mind of god.1736 And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, Sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (And so, the insane and the disabled will have their incapacities taken into account in a court of law)
peace
Peace
The Qur'an is not hard to understand. Simpler folk than me and you believed in it when there were even more ambiguities, and they were forward-thinkers/scientists! (Baghdad Muslims in the 8th century) It just has ambiguities, which God says we should take the best meaning of. The Qur'an does not teach you to rely on blind faith as you have stated in the quote. But what I am saying is there should not be anything in the universe that contradicts the Qur'an because it is from the Creator who says He has full knowledge of all things. So if anything in the Qur'an does not match the real world (which it shouldn't) then we are interpreting it incorrectly or we are in error. Because as muslims we believe God is never in error neither is he frustrated by His creation.
PEace
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on the surface the quran seems easy........ but i've had to alter my views several times within the last 3 years.... no doubt they'll have to change again in the future.
Soof how long have you been following quran alone?
yeah i've seen Zeitgeist..... and loose change, 911 mysteries and painful deception. And boy does it look like a controlled demolition o
soof do they make you do all this, this, this and this, or that too much for a uni degree?
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The cornerstones of the Qur'an are simple and easy to adhere to. This is the simplicity of the Qur'an. God emphasises these things so its sticks in your head that these are the reaaaaally important things (although everything in the Qur'an is important, but you get what I'm saying)
Belief in one God.
Belief in all his attributes
Belief in the Last Day, Judgement, Jannah and Jehannah
Belief in the Prophets, Messengers God's Scripture
Our sole purpose of creation is worship, which can manifest in several ways - prayer, charity, observing God's limits, fasting, being mindful of God always.
To adhere to the laws in the Qur'an and observe God's limits
To investigate, reflect and be grateful for God's signs.Everything else unless I've missed something, is relatively ambiguous and open to interpretation. So no on the surface the Qur'an is both easy and ambiguous. There are parts we understand and are easy to adhere to, then there are parts that are hard to understand or require great thought to reason with. I really haven't been "qur'an alone" for that long, about 3 months D why do you ask?
Is loose change good? Zeitgeist was funny, the way they tried to make Jesus seem like a Pagan God. Poor Christians.
Rofl at giving a list of physics topics, scanning through them in 30 seconds I can see a lot of them I am studying or will study )Peace
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loose change has some errors in it, but it is worth watching IMO. Painful deception is good too. 911 mysteries is the best i've seen.
as for interpretations of the quran, well things are no so black and white here, I have taken a long break from the forum and this place is clearly not as busy as it used to be, back then no one agreed on the interpretation of a single verse lol
If you read past threads or observe future ones you may find interpretations of the quran a bit wacky, but don't let that put you off.
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many christians do not take biblical science literally and they do not see that as a problem.
is it ok for a muslim to not take quranic science literally? (please see The Top 30 Problems with the Big Bang)
for those of you that believe that quranic science must be taken literally can you please quote a verse in the quran to prove your point, god did say that his book is complete.
I see no contradiction in not taking quranic science literally and still believing that the quran is divine in origin.
Your thoughts?
peace
I don't think the quran contains any miraculous science. I think people who believe that have to first assume that the quran is from divine origin, which is the wrong way to go about learning. In fact, then they're not learning at all because they're then reading the quran just to prove that it is miraculous. So then it seems the sole purpose of the quran is to prove that the quran is from god. All these Harun Yahya videos...do they actually teach you anything? do they tell you anything you didn't know or something you can use in your daily life to make it better? No.
And this idea that the quran is for "all time" (and the stuff we don't understand is just encrypted scientific knowledge which we'll find out in the future was in the quran all the time and which will give further proof of the quran's holiness) is just...not true.
It's like if I write something that makes no sense, and when people say (quite truthfully) that it's bull crap, I say that it's divine writing and you will find out what it means in the future because right now you don't have enough knowledge. Anyone can write anything and make that argument.Also, scientific knowledge is always changing. We thought we knew everything in 1900, and then Max Plank and Einstein changed everything. We're learning new things all the time and our understanding of the universe is in constant development. Science textbooks of 30 years ago are useless now. So people can keep trying to fit CURRENT scientific theories and facts into the quran but they'll be utterly embarrassed when science moves on (but then they'll just fit the new ones into it).
The quran is not about scientific knowledge. the quran never says it was written by god. What it is is a bunch of allegorical stories with lessons pertaining to our everyday life...and what seems like superstition and some outdated laws and methods of punishment. Just like every other teaching, we take what is good from the quran and leave out the rest.
So if you're told there is miraculous scientific knowledge in the quran, don't believe it.
And the stuff we don't understand...it's better to just leave it alone and come back to it in a few years.
The quran's like poetry. A lot of times poets and songwriters write about their experiences, and sometimes we're too young or too naive or too different even too closed minded to understand them. I didn't know what the hell love songs were all about when I was nine. Then there's this song called Dying Thoughts of An Athiest (by Muse), and I wouldn't have got the lyrics if I heard it a couple of years ago. -
many christians do not take biblical science literally and they do not see that as a problem.
is it ok for a muslim to not take quranic science literally? (please see The Top 30 Problems with the Big Bang)
for those of you that believe that quranic science must be taken literally can you please quote a verse in the quran to prove your point, god did say that his book is complete.
I see no contradiction in not taking quranic science literally and still believing that the quran is divine in origin.
Your thoughts?
peacePeace,
Respectfully.Why would a Muslim not take Quranic science literally? Or metaphorically?
If The Exalted God The MOST Powerful says that he split the sea in half, opened it and allowed prophet Musa to walk thru it, then God is TRULY The ALLPOwerful. God can always interefere and break the Laws of Nature, since He created them. I'm not saying God breaks His Laws Of nature, i'm saying He shows that He can and if someone here needs help, then God proves it to him/her that He can do what humans cannot - control the nature, reality.......http//www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/rose-nebula.html
This link tells me that Muslims of the time of prophet Mohammed simply believed when he told them this but later generations won't believe as much so we are allowed to prove it with - science.
Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
I don't think the quran contains any miraculous science. I think people who believe that have to first assume that the quran is from divine origin, which is the wrong way to go about learning. In fact, then they're not learning at all because they're then reading the quran just to prove that it is miraculous. So then it seems the sole purpose of the quran is to prove that the quran is from god. All these Harun Yahya videos...do they actually teach you anything? do they tell you anything you didn't know or something you can use in your daily life to make it better? No.
And this idea that the quran is for "all time" (and the stuff we don't understand is just encrypted scientific knowledge which we'll find out in the future was in the quran all the time and which will give further proof of the quran's holiness) is just...not true.
It's like if I write something that makes no sense, and when people say (quite truthfully) that it's bull crap, I say that it's divine writing and you will find out what it means in the future because right now you don't have enough knowledge. Anyone can write anything and make that argument.Also, scientific knowledge is always changing. We thought we knew everything in 1900, and then Max Plank and Einstein changed everything. We're learning new things all the time and our understanding of the universe is in constant development. Science textbooks of 30 years ago are useless now. So people can keep trying to fit CURRENT scientific theories and facts into the quran but they'll be utterly embarrassed when science moves on (but then they'll just fit the new ones into it).
The quran is not about scientific knowledge. the quran never says it was written by god. What it is is a bunch of allegorical stories with lessons pertaining to our everyday life...and what seems like superstition and some outdated laws and methods of punishment. Just like every other teaching, we take what is good from the quran and leave out the rest.
So if you're told there is miraculous scientific knowledge in the quran, don't believe it.
And the stuff we don't understand...it's better to just leave it alone and come back to it in a few years.
The quran's like poetry. A lot of times poets and songwriters write about their experiences, and sometimes we're too young or too naive or too different even too closed minded to understand them. I didn't know what the hell love songs were all about when I was nine. Then there's this song called Dying Thoughts of An Athiest (by Muse), and I wouldn't have got the lyrics if I heard it a couple of years ago.I agree fully with what you said in bold. But it sounds like you are trying to liken the Qur'an to a book full of gibberish that bears some relevance to the real world. The Qur'an has been accurate on what it has presented to us. It was presented to a simple people, So God wouldn't break out with e=mc^2 or partial reflection of a light beam to explain quantum electrodynamics. He gave us simple signs that we can recognise for all time. As we progress we get more meaning for certain things. Indeed people at the time of the revelation had a different understanding (as we all have different understanding from each other now) and we have a different understanding now. If the Qur'an is in a broad sense not being changed for 1400 years and remains so then as time progresses our descendants will get even more understanding from the Qur'an. They may even go astray and take verses completely the wrong way, only God knows.
"the quran never says it was written by god."
???That (this) is indeed a noble Qur'an, In a Book kept hidden,Which none toucheth save the purified, A revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
5677-80"We have not revealed unto thee (Muhammad) this Qur'an that thou shouldst be distressed, But as a reminder unto him who feareth, A revelation from Him Who created the earth and the high heavens, The Beneficent One, Who is established on the Throne."
202-5There are many more but I'm tired and I don't think you want to re-read the Qur'an from me so I'll keep it brief.
The Qur'an makes the BOLDEST claims. It says throughout that is indeed from GOD. It says if it were not from GOD you would have found within it MANY CONTRADICTIONS. It says if you doubt this is from GOD then produce a book, sura, ayah like the Qur'an. The Qur'an makes these claims you can't weave around it so boldly as you did. Whether YOU believe them or not (Which it seems you don't ) is up to you. But saying the Qur'an doesn't even say it is from God is denial.
And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.
1037What is scientific knowledge? What makes us think our 3/4-D outlook on what we perceive to be a finite universe is correct or is akin to the Knowledge God has? What makes us think we are viewing the Universe through all possible dimensions? We were not there at the time of the birth of the universe, nor were we there at the birth of Earth, we did not witness our own creation, all we have are remnants, echoes of the past, fossils, background radiation, redshift, experiment and observations, from this we gain SOME perception of the scale of the creation, SOME scale of the complexity, but who is to say this is all? That is why the Qur'an is not a book of SCIENCE is it a book of SIGNS. Science is the quest for understanding, it is a study made by Man. Signs are to give us understanding, to help us to reflect on God and creation, they are made by God. Indeed our knowledge is limited and it is arrogant and foolish to think we hold greater knowledge to the universe and can pass judgement on God's revelation because of it's age or language.
God tells us to look at the signs of the Heavens and the Earth and to use our reason. He wants us to progress and learn of His creation. But God makes it known he has full knowledge of ALL things, whereas we are only gaining in knowledge. God gives us some signs to reflect on and build on, some are very simple - sunrise, sunset - some are more complicated/ambiguous - Heavens and Earth as one unit of creation and then the ripping apart. But these are to open our mind and to be mindful of God as a creator and that there is purpose in creation. A benefit of this open-mindness is the progression of human civilisation and the investigation of nature (as the early muslims did before they stagnated into backwards mythology). But what we must not do is get arrogant when we are progressing and think the Qur'an is ancient fables because of it's age, because it is responsible for the thrust that drove the renaissance into the Western World (Baghdad) and is responsible reinvoking our senses and exploring WHILST being mindful of God. The Qur'an bears FULL relevance to our World, all the Signs in the Qur'an are such that we can see for ourselves (except our own creation and the creation of the universe) and they are not mystical or esoteric, they are there for all people of all time to investigate and understand, whether we have the tools or foundation to understand FULLY the Signs God presents is our loss (Big Bang/Origin of Universe), but we progress as human beings Insha'Allah. But God alone knows fully, which is why He says He is All-knowing, He doesn't say anything about Himself for sport.
God tells us "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?"
In other words, what we did not know God is telling us. If we can come to these conclusions clearly as well good for us. If we don't God is just telling us so that we can reflect and possibly come to believe. God is telling us about HIS creation, He is not telling you about something He stumbled upon and researched like WE are. That is the difference. As a believe I believe If we want to doubt or squeeze incorrect theories from PARTIAL knowledge into what is in the Qur'an then we will have to answer for it on the Day, that is all.
There is nothing that seems excessive, pointless to me in the Qur'an but that is my understanding. We all differ. Peace be upon you.