The 5 stages of a Muslim turning Quran Aloner
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Edip your avatar is the funniest thing I have ever seen. Thank you.
Yes, it is an avatar made by a Turkish artist. She made many more, but I liked this one the most for the following reason it is a ladybug which is also called luckybug by some. It is a living divine sign delivering a numero-literal sign, which bugs the unappreciative. It puts a smile on gardeners' face as volunteer pest control worker. But, I may soon retire it and replace it with a lion.
Glad to hear that you think that you haven't lost your "sense of common sense," but unfortunately, all who lose it never doubt of their possession of it. (I confess that I have lost a portion of it .
Peace,
Edip -
The problem I have is the concept of submission. I can see in the Koran Aloner the hard work to shrug off so many beliefs and try to reconcile the Islamic faith with your morality/rationality. But lingering there is always the thought of submission, that silent whisper, "Stop fighting. Just give up. Submit or die."
My vote is that we wrestle with God and see who wins. I think it is what God wants. He wants us to struggle with him and force ourselves to get to know him and admit we are bested. There is nothing wrong with this approach and it can in fact encourage the love and respect we seek and God deserves.
As a metaphor look at the world of Tennis and Roger Federer. Many of his opponents recognise his greatness in defeat. After having exerted all their strength against Roger and being bested with apparent ease they are often truly gracious in defeat.
When we submit I fear that we never really get to know how great God is and we never really grow ourselves because we never test and push ourselves.
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peace all,
NB I use the term "Quran Alone" and "Quran Aloner" only to act as a reference, not as an endorsement of the term.
A former member (mq) used to discuss different stages of growth/thinking of a Muslim turning to the "Quran Alone" mindset. I do not agree with it in terms of such a defined manner but it is definitely food for thought and often observed, based on my experience.
Basically, it means the different stages a Muslim who turns to the "Quran Alone" view goes though on their journey of increasing knowledge/discovery, with stage 5 being the highest level
- Questioning of sharia laws (but not of rituals and hadith)
- Questioning of hadith (but not of rituals)
- Questioning of rituals (but not of existence of those rituals, merely a revision of them)
- Questioning of the very existence of rituals (including Mecca itself)
- Questioning the existence of historical personalities (like nabis and rasul).
You may recognise some of the stages in yourself.
Those who are introduced to Quran alone by witnessing "one of the greatest signs" (7430-37), skip some and follow some additional steps. But again any generalization will have problems and ranking will be controversial. An atheist can easily add a few more steps.
Though I disagree with your step 3 and 4, yet I find the step 5 completely ridiculous. Any person who could reach to such a step, in my opinion, has lost touch with reality and has problem with rudimentary principles of common sense.
Peace,
Edip -
Peace Edip,
Though I disagree with your step 3 and 4, yet I find the step 5 completely ridiculous. Any person who could reach to such a step, in my opinion, has lost touch with reality and has problem with rudimentary principles of common sense.
I think that Step 5 is misplaced and it actually should be Step 1.
5.1. Questioning the existence of historical personalities (like nabis and rasul).
It is questioning the existence of the historical personalities. For example, the historic prophet Mohamed personality is the one given by the books of history of Tabari and Ibn Hisham as well as the numerous Hadith books where he has a beard, wears a short garment, stones monkeys, etc. This "historical" personality never really existed. Obsession with superficial (and false) historic details about the prophets such as how they looked and what they wore, etc. is the typical Sunni attitude (also was the attitude of Dr. Khalifa as evidenced by his dream).
The great reading actually gives us very little information about the prophets and messengers and it is not arranged in any kind of historic way (in other words, in a neat chronology with dates and places). So as far as the great reading is concerned, the historic prophets and messengers don't really matter and it is more about the lessons learned from the situations described in the great reading in no specific historical context.
This is why I think it is the first step. Because first you need to stop idolizing imaginary historical personalities before you can progress.
Peace,
Ayman
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I think there's a misunderstanding with regards to step five. Step five isn't questioning if nabis and rasuls existed. Rather, its questioning if nabis and rasuls are historical personalities. Some people that nabis and rasuls can emerge at any time. If they can't, then the ayat regarding them are obsolete and thats impossible, as far as Quran is concerned.
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We are going to see this list on a Quran alone website one day as the "Official 5 Steps" -\
Yeah , or warnings like 'please dont enter here if you're only at step 2' (in case you can't accept the rejection of mecca).
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- Questioning of sharia laws (but not of rituals and hadith)
- Questioning of hadith (but not of rituals)
- Questioning of rituals (but not of existence of those rituals, merely a revision of them)
- Questioning of the very existence of rituals (including Mecca itself)
- Questioning the existence of historical personalities (like nabis and rasul).
More or less what I went through except 1 and 2 happened at the same time and I never went through number 5
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Obsession with superficial (and false) historic details about the prophets such as how they looked and what they wore, etc. is the typical Sunni attitude (also was the attitude of Dr. Khalifa as evidenced by his dream). Ayman
Ayman
Your allergy, your ignorance and arrogance, which are in continual competition with each other, against "one of the greatest" signs leads you to take every opportunity to smear a brave monotheist. Rashad was never obsessed about such frivolous details and his books and speeches out there as witnesses. He was critical of these obsessions long before you woke up. If I share my dream with someone and describe what I saw in my dream with some details, if that makes me obsessed, then you are hundred times obsessed with Rashad Khalifa.
Don't you have a sense of decency?
Peace,
Edip -
Ayman
Your allergy, your ignorance and arrogance, which are in continual competition with each other, against "one of the greatest" signs leads you to take every opportunity to smear a brave monotheist. Rashad was never obsessed about such frivolous details and his books and speeches out there as witnesses. He was critical of these obsessions long before you woke up. If I share my dream with someone and describe what I saw in my dream with some details, if that makes me obsessed, then you are hundred times obsessed with Rashad Khalifa.
Don't you have a sense of decency?
Peace,
Edipyea, First it takes hold of your mind. Then it takes over your life and you see it everywhere
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=1463;type=avatar
and then &
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ElUBr6-GLU
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Peace,
Basically, it means the different stages a Muslim who turns to the "Quran Alone" view goes though on their journey of increasing knowledge/discovery, with stage 5 being the highest level
- Questioning of sharia laws (but not of rituals and hadith)
- Questioning of hadith (but not of rituals)
- Questioning of rituals (but not of existence of those rituals, merely a revision of them)
- Questioning of the very existence of rituals (including Mecca itself)
- Questioning the existence of historical personalities (like nabis and rasul).
You may recognise some of the stages in yourself.
None of the above;
- questioned existence of the universe
- deduced everything came about from nothing
- read the Qur?an
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzjTKOlZp-I
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yea, First it takes hold of your mind. Then it takes over your life and you see it everywhere
Interesting... If a single lady bug displaying your allergen on its back transforms into "EVERYWHERE" in your mind, then your allergy and phobia is severe. As for 23, it is a movie based on lies and deception, like most movies.
Lady bug, your life, everywhere, and 23? Try again to connect the dots ;D
PS Joke aside, I know that cute bug is not a real lady; it really bugs those who are arrogant innumerate or ingrate