Who are the people of the book?

farida

Peace "fairda",
"al-kitaab" includes further "kutub" in it. "kitaab" translates most literally into "something written/writing". Now there can be furrhter "thingswritten/writings" inside an already "writing" like in programming/mathematics we can have commands/functions which call themselves again. Such are known as RECURSIVE commands/functins(e.g. from maths is the function SIN(SIN(X)). From the conext of the Quran ahl-ul-kitaab refers to those who claim to have superficial attachment to GOD's Wrting throughout the times like Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, shiites, sunnis etc etc. GOD Bless!

Peace JK
I am sorry your reply makes no sense to me so please do not bring your mathematics into a simple question. You anyway have a problem believing in the Qur'an without beleiving in NO 19, which goes to show that this book has not reached your heart or mind I should say.
So my questions again to others on this site is who are the people of the book as its talking about a book not books?
peace

jonny_k

Peace "farida",

Peace JK
I am sorry your reply makes no sense to me so please do not bring your mathematics into a simple question. You anyway have a problem believing in the Qur'an without beleiving in NO 19, which goes to show that this book has not reached your heart or mind I should say.
So my questions again to others on this site is who are the people of the book as its talking about a book not books?
peace

JK- What has this got to do with no 19? Do i see you being prejudiced against me? You acn ask any mathematcian regarding recursive functions. Im sure youve heard of sin x, cos x and tan x. This is elementary trigonometry. Now you can use double function like sin(cos (x)) or even sin(sin(x)) the latter of which is recursive. The word "al-kitaab" is the broad term and it means "the writing". Can there not be individual "writings" inside the big "writing"? Ofcourse there can. Infact you can call every statement in the Quran "kitaab" i.e. something WRITTEN. GOD Bless!

farida

Peace "farida",

Do i see you being prejudiced against me?

Yes

jonny_k

Peace "farida",

Yes

JK- Why just because i disagree with you on certain issues. What kind of attitude is that? GOD Bless!

farida

Peace "farida",

JK- Why just because i disagree with you on certain issues. What kind of attitude is that? GOD Bless!

Listen JK I disagree with you on all issues. Does that make you understand my kind of attitude?
I do not consider you to be from the people of the book so I dont have to use my best manners with you in any discussion. Understand!!

belH

Salaam,

Tradionally we understood that this refers to jews and Christains but then it should have said "People of the books"
My question is, without referring to hadiths; who are people of the book?

peace
farida

Peace Farida
Good calls his Torah, Bible, and Quran the Book, and not the Books; The reason He says that because the three Reavelations are calling for one Message.

Allah! There is no Allah but Hethe Living, the Self-Subsisting Eternal. (2) It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Torah (Of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) (3) Before this as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest chastisement and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution. (3-4)

Therefore, The people of the Book are the People of Torah (they claim that they believe in Torah), the People of Bible (they claim they believe in Bible and Torah), and the People of Quran (they claim that they believe in the Torah, Bible and Quran).
Peace

farida

Peace Farida
Good calls his Torah, Bible, and Quran the Book, and not the Books; The reason He says that because the three Reavelations are valling for one Message.

Allah! There is no Allah but Hethe Living, the Self-Subsisting Eternal. (2) It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Torah (Of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) (3) Before this as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest chastisement and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution. (3-4)

Therefore, The people of the Book are the People of Torah (they claim that they believe in Torah), the People of Bible (they claim they believe in Bible and Torah), and the People of Quran (they claim that they believe in the Torah, Bible and Quran).
Peace

Salaam
That makes Sunni and Shia people of the book too?
peace

belH

Salaam
That makes Sunni and Shia people of the book too?
peace

Yes

farida

Yes

That means that from among all the people of the book closest to us are the Sunni and the Shia and therefore we shoud deal with them in the best of manner?
peace

belH

That means that from among all the people of the book closest to us are the Sunni and the Shia and therefore we shoud deal with them in the best of manner?
peace

Not only them, but all the People of Book.

huruf

Peace Farida
Good calls his Torah, Bible, and Quran the Book, and not the Books; The reason He says that because the three Reavelations are calling for one Message.

Allah! There is no Allah but Hethe Living, the Self-Subsisting Eternal. (2) It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Torah (Of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) (3) Before this as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest chastisement and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution. (3-4)

Therefore, The people of the Book are the People of Torah (they claim that they believe in Torah), the People of Bible (they claim they believe in Bible and Torah), and the People of Quran (they claim that they believe in the Torah, Bible and Quran).
Peace

Thanks Belalhamd for your input. I appreciate the effort to put in su many issues to help us all along, and I just noticed your signature. It is VERY good.

Now, in general and
reading the quote in conjunction with the Quran's assertion that to all peoples God sent messengers, and therefore messages,

also aya 3.20

"...
and say to the people of the book and to those who are unlearned...
"

We know that in many of the Quran ayas where the people of the Book are mentioned the speech is concerning events that were on at that moment, and referred to eople of the book at hand,

so bearing all that in mind, wouldn't it be conceivable that in fact people of the book, -the One Book, as you point out, that is, all authentic revelation- that people of the book are in fact, as opposed to unlearned, thos who got the message, that is, any recorded message, at any time or moment in history? That message, as with the gospels or torah may have been distorted in any way, but still it may there to whatever extent, and those people who follow that message in the measure they know it, wouldn't be also people of the book?

Salaam

Someone

Peace Farida, huruf, all

Verse 320 is a good example to understand who is the group referred to as "ahl al-kitab" in contrast with "al-oummiyne".

In Arabic, one of the meanings of "ahl" is "one who is qualified for a task/job", we hear this even nowadays in sport for qualifications.

So it seems from 320 and other verses that "ahl al-kitab" is defining a group of "learned people" or "people able/qualified to read/write" in contrast with the unlearned ones. There is a big gap between these two groups in terms of knowledge, hence the scripture gives specific commands to the learned ones because they tend to abuse the other group and have higher responsibilities and capacities to influence their environment.

I think that this term "ahl al-kitab" has no religious meaning in the scripture (like pointing to Jews or Christians...), but is simply a general definition for the learned/educated people.

jonny_k

Peace "farida",

Listen JK I disagree with you on all issues. Does that make you understand my kind of attitude?
I do not consider you to be from the people of the book so I dont have to use my best manners with you in any discussion. Understand!!

JK- Do you disagree that

The Quran is to be the only source of religious guidance and wer not to take any hadith besides it as religious or Divine law?
Hadith are full of nonsense and barbaric laws?
Shariah is one of the few surviving most violent laws on the planet?
If not then your not disagreeing with me on everything after all. Youve probably just been angered because of my view on Palestine. Well sorry ive my views and we may not agree on everything but to say we disagree on everything would be ridiculous. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "farida",

That means that from among all the people of the book closest to us are the Sunni and the Shia and therefore we shoud deal with them in the best of manner?
peace

JK- You only deal with those people of the Book in the best manner who dont fight you because of your beliefs. As for those who attack you, as sunnis/shias are continuously threatening us, wer to do this
You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."
Have you noted those who are plagued with hypocrisy, and how they said to their companions in disbelief AMONG the people of the scripture, "If you are evicted we will go out with you, and will never obey anyone who opposes you. If anyone fights you, we will fight on your side." GOD bears witness that they are liars.

GOD Bless!

farida

Peace Farida, huruf, all

Verse 320 is a good example to understand who is the group referred to as "ahl al-kitab" in contrast with "al-oummiyne".

In Arabic, one of the meanings of "ahl" is "one who is qualified for a task/job", we hear this even nowadays in sport for qualifications.

So it seems from 320 and other verses that "ahl al-kitab" is defining a group of "learned people" or "people able/qualified to read/write" in contrast with the unlearned ones. There is a big gap between these two groups in terms of knowledge, hence the scripture gives specific commands to the learned ones because they tend to abuse the other group and have higher responsibilities and capacities to influence their environment.

I think that this term "ahl al-kitab" has no religious meaning in the scripture (like pointing to Jews or Christians...), but is simply a general definition for the learned/educated people.

Salaam Someone,
Your explanation makes sense, since those who have received scripture are mentioned in contrast to those who are illiterate.
The intellectuals and scholars shoulder a huge responsibility and can make a huge difference with their contributions. Take for example Freud; he studied human psychology and had a great understanding of how the human minds works. Among many theories, one was that if you repeat some thing again and again people will eventually come to believe it . This finding is put into practice in advertisements and commercials designed to make those on the receiving end get this subliminal message.
He could easily have warned people ?Guard yourself? your mind is susceptible to subliminal messages anyone repeats some things again and again it will end up corrupting your understanding of the truth so make sure you work on your mind to uphold the truth and not fall into this trap. Had he done this the world would have been a very different place today.
I always believed those who possess a better understanding will be questioned what they did with this gift to them and what was the end result of that contribution?
peace

ayman

Peace Farida,

Your explanation makes sense, since those who have received scripture are mentioned in contrast to those who are illiterate.

Yes, this explanation makes sense. However, I don't think that what is meant is illiterate in general. Just illiterate in the language of the book. This is confirmed by 278 which refer to some of the descendents of Israel

And from them are "ummiyin" who don't know the book except "amani" (amani = recitation without knowing the meaning) and they are but assuming.

Peace,

Ayman

Someone

Peace Ayman, all

To be more specific about "ahl al-kitab", I think it describes people who know some of the laws in action in this reality, not just someone who knows the alphabet and can write his name.

I think "bani israeil" is a sub-group of "ahl al-kitab", not the Jews necessarly. "bani" comes from "bana' " which means to build. "israeil" refers to someone knowing some of the laws of this reality (the laws of the god) but is trying to do too much and adding more rules to these laws for his own gain. They show too much righteousness in public, but in reality they scheme against the others. They don't take the straight road, but take curves, ups and downs, and make every argument to divert people from the main goal.

"israeil" comes from root "sara' " ( ), and means pour out or forth , pour forth , pour out , be poured(out or forth) , pour down , fulminate , gush , flow , leak , squirt, spread.

"bani israeil would then mean "people who create diversion".

Peace,

Mohamed

belH

Peace Ayman, all

To be more specific about "ahl al-kitab", I think it describes people who know some of the laws in action in this reality, not just someone who knows the alphabet and can write his name.

I think "bani israeil" is a sub-group of "ahl al-kitab", not the Jews necessarly. "bani" comes from "bana' " which means to build. "israeil" refers to someone knowing some of the laws of this reality (the laws of the god) but is trying to do too much and adding more rules to these laws for his own gain. They show too much righteousness in public, but in reality they scheme against the others. They don't take the straight road, but take curves, ups and downs, and make every argument to divert people from the main goal.

"israeil" comes from root "sara' " ( ), and means pour out or forth , pour forth , pour out , be poured(out or forth) , pour down , fulminate , gush , flow , leak , squirt, spread.

"bani israeil would then mean "people who create diversion".

Peace,

Mohamed

Peace all;

Please note that Israel is Prophet Jacob, thus a name of a True Prophet. Bani Israel are Bani Jacob (The Children of Jacob). There are the Good ones and the bad ones, and therefore, you can not generalize any Atribute to them (Good or Bad).

Thanks Belalhamd for your input. I appreciate the effort to put in su many issues to help us all along, and I just noticed your signature. It is VERY good.

Now, in general and
reading the quote in conjunction with the Quran's assertion that to all peoples God sent messengers, and therefore messages,

also aya 3.20

"...
and say to the people of the book and to those who are unlearned...
"

We know that in many of the Quran ayas where the people of the Book are mentioned the speech is concerning events that were on at that moment, and referred to eople of the book at hand,

so bearing all that in mind, wouldn't it be conceivable that in fact people of the book, -the One Book, as you point out, that is, all authentic revelation- that people of the book are in fact, as opposed to unlearned, thos who got the message, that is, any recorded message, at any time or moment in history? That message, as with the gospels or torah may have been distorted in any way, but still it may there to whatever extent, and those people who follow that message in the measure they know it, wouldn't be also people of the book?

Salaam

Peace; (thank You)

Any believer should be very careful when making conclusion that are not supported by Quran (or the True Bible and Torah).
I still believe that the True Bible and Torah are gaurded as the Quran; the reason I'm saying that is God, in the Quran, never mention that the Bible and Torah are corrupted by humans, rather, He said that they are his Book, and believer should believe on them.
Any Corruption happend in the Bible or Torah or Quran is in their translated virsions.

As far as other people of the Book, beside the one we know, I can not give you an answer due to the lack of information in Quran.

May God Bless You.
Peace

Peace Farida,

Yes, this explanation makes sense. However, I don't think that what is meant is illiterate in general. Just illiterate in the language of the book. This is confirmed by 278 which refer to some of the descendents of Israel

And from them are "ummiyin" who don't know the book except "amani" (amani = recitation without knowing the meaning) and they are but assuming.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,

I agree; and I add that their are Millions of those in the People of Quran. But we still have to call them the people of the Book.
Please note that the true believers are people of the Book, as well.

Peace "farida",

JK- Do you disagree that

The Quran is to be the only source of religious guidance and wer not to take any hadith besides it as religious or Divine law?
Hadith are full of nonsense and barbaric laws?
Shariah is one of the few surviving most violent laws on the planet?
If not then your not disagreeing with me on everything after all. Youve probably just been angered because of my view on Palestine. Well sorry ive my views and we may not agree on everything but to say we disagree on everything would be ridiculous. GOD Bless!

The disagreement is in many issues, and one of them your disbelieving in 9-128 & 129.
(Please let us not make this thread about Code 19)

jonny_k

Peace "belalhammad",
Please don't confuse the Bible with the Gospel, Torah, Psalms and the other Books of GOD. The Bible has NEVER been authorized by GOD. It is a collection which CLAIMS to contain the aforementioned books although theres no evidence for that either. Most importantly the Bible contains sub books like leviticus and deuteronomy which contains very absurd and vile laws like stoning adulterers and killing homosexuals etc. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace "belalhammad",
Please don't confuse the Bible with the Gospel, Torah, Psalms and the other Books of GOD. The Bible has NEVER been authorized by GOD. It is a collection which CLAIMS to contain the aforementioned books although theres no evidence for that either. Most importantly the Bible contains sub books like leviticus and deuteronomy which contains very absurd and vile laws like stoning adulterers and killing homosexuals etc. GOD Bless!

Salam,
Johnny k those are your words?.

IF you read the previous scripture in THEIR ORIGINAL LANGUAGE you would KNOW that the previous scriptures ARE from ALLAH.

Often times there are people who insist on reading the Quran in Arabic and then settle for a mistranslated version of the previous scripture.

Therefore I repeat
You MUST read ALL scripture in the ORIGINAL languages and then you will KNOW that it is revealation.

But the authority on the Subject is ALWAYS ALLAH so, Let's see what is written in the Quran

Previous scripture is REVELATION from ALLAH

33
He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.

543
And how do they make you a judge and they have the Taurat wherein is Allah's judgment? Yet they turn back after that, and these are not the believers.

544
Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.

545
And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.

546
And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).

547
And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.

548
And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

YOU follow NO GOOD until you Keep up the Torah and Injeel

568
Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.

The ones who are GUIDED?.BELIEVE in what was revealed BEFORE?THIS is how we know who is guided as said in al baqarah....

24
And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.

And this is what is said of those who do NOT believe in previous revelation?..

4136
O you who believe! believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book which He has revealed to His Messenger and the Book which He revealed before; and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His messengers and the last day, he indeed strays off into a remote error.

625
The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.

566
And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do

The common claim is that previous scripture has been lost or altered.

Those who make such claims are also claiming that THEY DISBELIEVE in the Quran when we are TOLD to uphold previous scripture.

I have given several verses as evidence regarding previous scripture. However, there ARE MANY MORE.

Allah clearly states that HE KNOWS BEST what is in the Heavens and the EARTH (that would include knowing that previous scriptures are STILL here for us to UPHOLD as COMMANDED).?

1755
And your Lord best knows those who are in the heavens and the earth; and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, and to Dawood We gave a scripture.

Salam,
Arnab